Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 613 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-03-2015, 11:16 PM
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Quick question: for sealed subwoofers, is there a recommended clearance between the driver and a wall? I know that for ported models, there's a recommended port clearance; but, I'm not sure if there's a similar guideline for sealed.

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Old 04-04-2015, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Yea well I have used Y splitters which I measured and verified the gains. So my testing backs my experience and many others.

Lol this thread is so comical...every few months the same topics come up and all of a sudden it's brand new.

Shoot Tom a Email and he will confirm what I am saying. Or just read back through this thread and I am sure you will find this topic talked about at least a dozen times over the course of 2yrs.
Not arguing with you dude just trying to understand how that works.

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Old 04-04-2015, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble on this one. But it doesn't go much below 30hz
Not overloaded, but its in there, graphs are Dave prudzniks



Last edited by Gorilla Killa; 04-04-2015 at 03:45 AM. Reason: add
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Old 04-04-2015, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I just re-ran MCACC after adjusting the gain knobs down to about 12 o'clock. The result was -2.5dB which I adjusted up to +0.5dB and the problem persists. I still have to bring volume control to about -20dB before the green light turns on and the bass is heard. It kind of ticks me off that I wasted $20 in Y adapters when come to find out that it isn't doing anything to fix the issue.

I wonder if the miniDSP is doing anything to prevent the subs from turning on at lower listening levels. I did not have this problem with my previous XV15 and the same AVR.

Makes me want to remove the miniDSP from the equation.

Any luck? Where do you split your signal to each sub? Do you use the dual outputs on your AVR and run those into the Mini or do you let the mini split it?

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Old 04-04-2015, 05:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Not overloaded, but its in there, graphs are Dave prudzniks


I wouldn't recomend it specifically for Ulf though. Nice sound? Sure but ulf it pretty weak
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Old 04-04-2015, 05:07 AM
 
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Brian, Please let us know what you think of Exodus, as I may que up the BD for tomorrow
I'm not the best critic because if it sounds great looks great and has a halfway follow able plot I enjoy it

But this was a grand movie and no where near as bad as people say. But the bass was outstanding (those with ported subs might not thinks so) and big. Turn this one up!

Enjoyed it no doubt

Give it a spin
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Old 04-04-2015, 05:23 AM
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Just got home to see my XS30SE was here waiting for me! Got it up the stairs into my living room (holy crap this thing is heavy!) hooked it up and did a quick Audyssey setup, making sure I disconnected my V1500 first. Popped in Inception, chapter one. OMG, THIS IS WHAT BASS SOUNDS LIKE! I can't believe what a HUGE DIFFERENCE. I don't need 30 days to decide, only took about 30 seconds! There is just no comparison, the XS30se is FAR BETTER IMO. I honestly wonder if something is wrong with my V1500. Anyway, won't get much more play time with it tonight, but this weekend is going to be AWESOME! I can't wait to watch every movie I have!
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On an unrelated note, I wonder about that bus for SONOS too. I have probably gotten 5 or 6 friends knee deep in the SONOS system just by giving them a demo of the diff speakers/zones in my home. I know it's cost-prohibitive but there is no better way to sell this sort of technology than demoing it in their own homes!
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Old 04-04-2015, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Use the setting you feel most comfortable with. I have subs at home that have been in "auto" mode for 12(?) years, now...still pounding along nicely. I have seen comments regarding longevity and always turning things off but never any evidence supporting that.

Our BASH and ICE amps are full DSP-ed and green. So in "sleep" mode they are drawing 1/2 watt. Other brands can draw up to 15-20 watts. So there really isn't any concern with energy savings.

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Thanks Tom (and other owners)?who have chimed in. Good to know that leaving them on at all times is OK! Makes life much easier.

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Old 04-04-2015, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post
So, I'm thinking of going in-wall / wall mounted speakers.
Just curious...what room is this for? Your HT room or other?

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Old 04-04-2015, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by AnnapolisSony View Post
Just curious...what room is this for? Your HT room or other?
Our livingroom is our HT as well.
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Old 04-04-2015, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post
Our livingroom is our HT as well.
Our family room is the HT room. I am using Magnepan MMGw (L-R), ML Passage (C), Polk RC85i for surrounds (4), and dual XV15.
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Old 04-04-2015, 08:14 AM
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Thing is with the advantage the V1500 will have in the 16-25Hz range is there will be a lot less LFE in this range in most movies compared to 30Hz on up. You have a more narrow range of advantage for the V1500 than the much larger range and more used range with the XS30se.
The V1500 has a 3-4db advantage in the 16-30hz. That is a full octave that the ported sub maintains 50% + more headroom. So when you are watching one of the latest action flicks that has plenty of bass in the 16-30hz, the V1500 will be coasting where the XS30se will be near its limits. I agree the XS30se has a size able advantage in the 30-80hz, but the thing is most here do not approach either subs limits in that range. My 3 XV15's will do 125-128db in the 30-80hz range, a single hits 116-119db in my room verified with a spl meter and rew. How many here actually listen that loud? So imo the upper bass advantage is not as big of a deal because both subs have plenty of it.

Now if we were only talking a single sub setup vs duals or more then yes I would favor the XS30 because it still will have more then enough headroom in the sub frequency range that is most commonly used where the V1500 would be approaching its limits.

Imo the goal for a subwoofer system should be to have reference(115db) capability from 16-80hz, which covers over 90% of all source material with clean uncompressed output. Using sealed or ported to get there makes me no difference. I am not as biased to either one as some may think.

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Last edited by basshead81; 04-04-2015 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 04-04-2015, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The V1500 has a 3-4db advantage in the 16-30hz. That is a full octave that the ported sub maintains 50% + more headroom. So when you are watching one of the latest action flicks that has plenty of bass in the 16-30hz, the V1500 will be coasting where the XS30se will be near its limits. I agree the XS30se has a size able advantage in the 30-80hz, but the thing is most here do not approach either subs limits in that range. My 3 XV15's will do 125-128db in the 30-80hz range, a single hits 116-119db in my room verified with a spl meter and rew. How many here actually listen that loud? So imo the upper bass advantage is not as big of a deal because both subs have plenty of it.

Now if we were only talking a single sub setup vs duals or more then yes I would favor the XS30 because it still will have more then enough headroom in the sub frequency range that is most commonly used where the V1500 would be approaching its limits.

Imo the goal for a subwoofer system should be to have reference(115db) capability from 16-80hz, which covers over 90% of all source material with clean uncompressed output. Using sealed or ported to get there makes me no difference. I am not as biased to either one as some may think.
Maybe part of the reason my single XS30se sounds better than my single V1500 is because I only have one. Perhaps dual V1500s would beat dual XS30ses but I am so impressed with my single XS30se that I don't even care.

As for the ported having a huge advantage over sealed for movies, I'm just not hearing it. I can't explain it and no one here may believe me but I'm telling you it's not even close. In my room comparing my V1500 and my XS30se, the XS30se is much better!

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Old 04-04-2015, 08:53 AM
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I can't explain it and no one here may believe me but I'm telling you it's not even close. In my room comparing my V1500 and my XS30se, the XS30se is much better!
Your ears aren't lying to you; you're telling us what you prefer and not a single one of us can tell you that you're wrong. That said, without posting graphs, we're all left scratching our heads a bit and wondering if, perhaps, your V1500 is defective. While you may subjectively prefer the XS30se, objectively, the statements that you are making should be false. Whether or nor they are false is something that can only be determined with measurements.
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Old 04-04-2015, 09:14 AM
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Maybe part of the reason my single XS30se sounds better than my single V1500 is because I only have one. Perhaps dual V1500s would beat dual XS30ses but I am so impressed with my single XS30se that I don't even care.

As for the ported having a huge advantage over sealed for movies, I'm just not hearing it. I can't explain it and no one here may believe me but I'm telling you it's not even close. In my room comparing my V1500 and my XS30se, the XS30se is much better!
Have you taken measurements to verify what you are hearing? Did you ever go back through the V1500 setup like AlanP and myself suggested? Or did you simply get frustrated and give up? Going off of your last posts about the V1500 it sounds like the latter. Subjective opinion will never trump 2m rms data unless you can back your opinion with data.
If you are happy then that is all that truly matters...so stop there and send the V1500 back.
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Old 04-04-2015, 09:46 AM
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Can't wait for my xs30 in monday
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:43 AM
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Any luck? Where do you split your signal to each sub? Do you use the dual outputs on your AVR and run those into the Mini or do you let the mini split it?
As my Pioneer VSX-1124 doesn't EQ subs differently I decided to only use one output on the AVR and then split the signal at the miniDSP. I had thought about using both outputs on the AVR when I encountered this "auto on" problem but then thought that I'd have to purchase the alternate miniDSP plugin.

Anyhow, as stated, the Y adapter didn't seem to do much. I went from a -5.0dB setting pre Y adapter to a -5.5dB setting with the Y adapter (MCACC).

When I get a chance I am going to take an SPL meter reading with the adapter and without the adapter (same AVR setting and gain knob setting) to see if the Y adapter was a complete waste of money as I suspect it will be.

After seeing that the AVR minimally adjusted the subwoofer I put both gain knobs down to about 12 o'clock. I re-ran MCACC and I got -3.5dB which I then bumped up to +0.5dB. This still didn't kick the subs "on" from "auto" until I was in the teens on the volume control.

Last night I experimented around with the volume control set to -30dB. I incrementally increased the sub (in the AVR) by increments of 0.5dB up from +0.5dB. I got to +3.0dB before I saw the green light on the subs. +3.0dB seemed to be the sweet spot as +2.5dB didn't seem to do the job. That setting though would ultimately be 6.5dB "HOT" as I see it. I think that is a bit much. If the AVR needs to be set to +3.0dB for the subs to kick on then I'm going to grab the SPL meter and adjust the gain myself.

So if I go that route and want to "gain match" the subs at the MLP I need to adjust gain knob to until I get 75dB at the MLP correct? What I would rather do though is gain match the subs so that both of their knobs are relatively similar. So I think I might go that route instead. After all... not many sit at the MLP except for mama anyway... my favorite spot is right up next to the sub as it servers as my only end table... although of late I have noticed the V1500 doesn't like anything on it! Probably unlike the sealed variant

On a side note... watch Thor Dark World last night with the subs 3dB hot and OMG!!!! Wow!!! Anyone thinking these V1500's don't equate with CHEST pound come on over! I was saying wow all evening!
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Old 04-04-2015, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
Quick question: for sealed subwoofers, is there a recommended clearance between the driver and a wall? I know that for ported models, there's a recommended port clearance; but, I'm not sure if there's a similar guideline for sealed.
When I was setting up my Dual XS-30's Tom told me no closer than 1.5".
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Old 04-04-2015, 11:29 AM
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When I was setting up my Dual XS-30's Tom told me no closer than 1.5".
Very cool--thanks for the input!

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Old 04-04-2015, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Have you taken measurements to verify what you are hearing? Did you ever go back through the V1500 setup like AlanP and myself suggested? Or did you simply get frustrated and give up? Going off of your last posts about the V1500 it sounds like the latter. Subjective opinion will never trump 2m rms data unless you can back your opinion with data.
If you are happy then that is all that truly matters...so stop there and send the V1500 back.
No offense but I don't need measurements. I had the V1500 in the EXACT same place I now have my XS30se. I ran Audyssey the EXACT same way using a mic stand. Every time I had all speakers set to Small. No matter what I tried with the V1500, and really the Room Size is the only variable here, it can't touch the XS30se. Every scene I have played is known for Deep Bass; Inception, WOTW Pod Emergence, Incredible Hulk, Finding Nemo, Star Trek: Into Darkness, Super 8, The Dark Knight Rises, etc... Every single one sounded better and shook the room more and pounded harder and deeper!

Anyway, I'm done going on and on about this. Don't want to start any flame wars here. I'm perfectly happy with my new sub!

If, when Tom receives my V1500, he discovers an issue I'll let everyone know. Don't want to discourage anyone from buying a V1500. If he finds nothing wrong with it then we can just chalk it up to personal preference.
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Old 04-04-2015, 12:35 PM
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No offense but I don't need measurements.
I don't think anyone is saying that you need measurements. Your preference is your preference. We want measurements to understand how your preference is coming about. Is your V1500 defective? Do you have huge nulls in the lowest frequencies? Do you have huge peaks in the ultra-low frequencies that sounded bad with the V1500's greater output? Are you boosting your subs so high that you were experiencing port chuffing?

The point is: there are literally dozens of reasons that you could have come to the conclusions you did. Since they run counter to everyone else's experiences, we're curious as to what's going on.

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Old 04-04-2015, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Have you taken measurements to verify what you are hearing? Did you ever go back through the V1500 setup like AlanP and myself suggested? Or did you simply get frustrated and give up? Going off of your last posts about the V1500 it sounds like the latter. Subjective opinion will never trump 2m rms data unless you can back your opinion with data.
If you are happy then that is all that truly matters...so stop there and send the V1500 back.
No offense but I don't need measurements. I had the V1500 in the EXACT same place I now have my XS30se. I ran Audyssey the EXACT same way using a mic stand. Every time I had all speakers set to Small. No matter what I tried with the V1500, and really the Room Size is the only variable here, it can't touch the XS30se. Every scene I have played is known for Deep Bass; Inception, WOTW Pod Emergence, Incredible Hulk, Finding Nemo, Star Trek: Into Darkness, Super 8, The Dark Knight Rises, etc... Every single one sounded better and shook the room more and pounded harder and deeper!

Anyway, I'm done going on and on about this. Don't want to start any flame wars here. I'm perfectly happy with my new sub!

If, when Tom receives my V1500, he discovers an issue I'll let everyone know. Don't want to discourage anyone from buying a V1500. If he finds nothing wrong with it then we can just chalk it up to personal preference.

I have a similar feeling about the v1500 compared to the xv15se. Not quite as drastic as what is being described with the xs30, but I went from the xv15se to the v1500 and so far have not been able to reproduce the same impact and power that I was experiencing with the xv. I'm not saying the v1500 is bad or anything, but in my room in my setup at this point the xv15se is a better match. When I first got the xv15se I stuck it in the front corner, plugged it in and immediately was able to get deep, powerful, solid, in your chest bass. And after running MCACC it was even better. With the v1500 I'm still trying to find a location that gives similar results and have yet to find it. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the down firing configuration of the xv is just a better design for my room and my system. As of right now the best and most impactful location I have found so far for the v1500 is front left corner, gain set to 2 o'clock on sub, room size all the way large, receiver set sub level to -4 after calibration and I bumped it to +2 or +3 depending material. Its not bad but is still not what I experienced with the xv. I plan on messing with it over the weekend and seeing if I can't get more out of it but if i have no luck I will more than likely contact Tom on Monday to see if I can return it and replace it with the xv15se.
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Old 04-04-2015, 12:50 PM
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No offense but I don't need measurements. I had the V1500 in the EXACT same place I now have my XS30se. I ran Audyssey the EXACT same way using a mic stand. Every time I had all speakers set to Small. No matter what I tried with the V1500, and really the Room Size is the only variable here, it can't touch the XS30se. Every scene I have played is known for Deep Bass; Inception, WOTW Pod Emergence, Incredible Hulk, Finding Nemo, Star Trek: Into Darkness, Super 8, The Dark Knight Rises, etc... Every single one sounded better and shook the room more and pounded harder and deeper!

Anyway, I'm done going on and on about this. Don't want to start any flame wars here. I'm perfectly happy with my new sub!

If, when Tom receives my V1500, he discovers an issue I'll let everyone know. Don't want to discourage anyone from buying a V1500. If he finds nothing wrong with it then we can just chalk it up to personal preference.
How do you have your XS30se positioned? I have my XS30 positioned with one driver pointing towards the room and the other pointed at the wall. I seemed to get a couple dB increase in the same spot with it situated like this as opposed to each driver facing along the wall. It's a beast of a sub and my room can be sealed off with a door closed, which I think helps it that much more.

Last edited by MIX_MASTER_ICE; 04-04-2015 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 04-04-2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
How do you have your XS30se positioned? I have my XS30 positioned with one driver pointing towards the room and the other pointed at the wall. I seemed to get a couple dB increase in the same spot with it situated like this as opposed to each driver facing along the wall. It's a beast of a sub and my room can be sealed off with a door closed, which I think helps it that much more.
That is how I have mine positioned as well. The sub is about 3" off the wall. I don't have room to turn it sideways.

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Old 04-04-2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
I don't think anyone is saying that you need measurements. Your preference is your preference. We want measurements to understand how your preference is coming about. Is your V1500 defective? Do you have huge nulls in the lowest frequencies? Do you have huge peaks in the ultra-low frequencies that sounded bad with the V1500's greater output? Are you boosting your subs so high that you were experiencing port chuffing?

The point is: there are literally dozens of reasons that you could have come to the conclusions you did. Since they run counter to everyone else's experiences, we're curious as to what's going on.
I know measurements would help everyone see what's up, I unfortunately don't have any way to do it.

For the record, I never set either sub higher than Audyssey. Usually between -5 and -3. There may be something I'm missing, all I know is which one I like better! I'm perfectly happy!

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Old 04-04-2015, 02:02 PM
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That is how I have mine positioned as well. The sub is about 3" off the wall. I don't have room to turn it sideways.
Have you tried the V1500 with the driver pointed at the wall?
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Old 04-04-2015, 02:05 PM
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Have you tried the V1500 with the driver pointed at the wall?
Gotta be careful pointing ported subwoofers at the wall. You need clearance for the port or it'll start operating more like a sealed enclosure.

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Old 04-04-2015, 02:13 PM
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Gotta be careful pointing ported subwoofers at the wall. You need clearance for the port or it'll start operating more like a sealed enclosure.
Well I didn't mean up against the wall, obviously. 6"-12" range.

Last edited by MIX_MASTER_ICE; 04-04-2015 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 04-04-2015, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
Gotta be careful pointing ported subwoofers at the wall. You need clearance for the port or it'll start operating more like a sealed enclosure.
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
Well I didn't mean up against the wall, obviously. 6"-12" range.
Actually Tom has said 3 to 4 inches is fine for the port. That's where I have mine for both subs and have never had a problem with either one.
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Old 04-04-2015, 02:33 PM
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Actually Tom has said 3 to 4 inches is fine for the port. That's where I have mine for both subs and have never had a problem with either one.
A general rule of thumb I have heard often is the distance should at least be the same as the diameter of the port...4" port = 4" from the boundary. I always have bumped it up an inch or two if space provided. Would be interesting with the driver and the port of the V1500 facing the wall to see what differences, if any, there would be pointed at the wall from varying distances....such as 6" to 12".
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