Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 616 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18451 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 12:42 PM
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Why don't people just leave them to the ON position. Than your amp is not doing the switch modes back and forth. If I remember right I believe Tom also does the same.
Tom said he leaves his in the "auto" position as well. I myself am very particular about perfection... it was meant to switch on from "auto" so I want it to do that instead of me manually turning them on/off every time I want to use them. I definitely don't want to leave the "on" all the time as I usually only use them when watching TV/movies in the evening or weekends.
Tom does not :-)
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post #18452 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 01:01 PM
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To be honest guys, I'm not 100% sure how the sub(s) at home are set. They are either AUTO or ON though. I never bother to turn them off. Same with anything running in the office, we change out so many subs in the office one day they might be ON, the next AUTO.

One thing to remember with all of our products except the Triax and T-18, the amplifiers are "green". So in standby mode they require VERY little power. Less than one watt. So there is really no difference in power consumption. As for longevity, I have never seen any correlation between amplifier failure and the auto setting.

It really just comes down to what your most comfortable with at the end of the day. The 2-3-4 subs I have at home have been on for 10-15 years now except for occasional moving and power outages.

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post #18453 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 01:06 PM
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I have always set my crossovers at 80hz. I just calibrated yesterday changed to 50 hz mcacc set my subs to -6.5. I'm wondering how hot you can run these subs. My gain on all four subs are about 1 o'clock. With my spl meter I set my subs to about 90 db :-)
Anyone ever try this wow the pressure is unbelievable btw went from -6.5 to +7 to set to 90db on spl
meter in my main position
My subs are
Dual Xv30f
Dual Xs30
Couple pics added
Tom what's your opinion on my post
You think its to hot
I'm sure Im not going to hurt them do you think

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I have always set my crossovers at 80hz. I just calibrated yesterday changed to 50 hz mcacc set my subs to -6.5. I'm wondering how hot you can run these subs. My gain on all four subs are about 1 o'clock. With my spl meter I set my subs to about 90 db :-) Anyone ever try this wow the pressure is unbelievable btw went from -6.5 to +7 to set to 90db on spl meter in my main position My subs are Dual Xv30f Dual Xs30

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post #18454 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Tom said he leaves his in the "auto" position as well. I myself am very particular about perfection... it was meant to switch on from "auto" so I want it to do that instead of me manually turning them on/off every time I want to use them. I definitely don't want to leave the "on" all the time as I usually only use them when watching TV/movies in the evening or weekends.

You are going to waste this much time and effort over this when they consume less than 1 watt in standby mode? That doesn't make much sense.


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One thing to remember with all of our products except the Triax and T-18, the amplifiers are "green". So in standby mode they require VERY little power. Less than one watt. So there is really no difference in power consumption. As for longevity, I have never seen any correlation between amplifier failure and the auto setting.

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post #18455 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 02:04 PM
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[QUOTE=zeus33;33246241]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Tom said he leaves his in the "auto" position as well. I myself am very particular about perfection... it was meant to switch on from "auto" so I want it to do that instead of me manually turning them on/off every time I want to use them. I definitely don't want to leave the "on" all the time as I usually only use them when watching TV/movies in the evening or weekends.[/quote


You are going to waste this much time and effort over this when they consume less than 1 watt in standby mode? That doesn't make much sense.
Power consumption :-)


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One thing to remember with all of our products except the Triax and T-18, the amplifiers are "green". So in standby mode they require VERY little power. Less than one watt. So there is really no difference in power consumption. As for longevity, I have never seen any correlation between amplifier failure and the auto setting.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Power consumption :-)

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post #18456 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 03:43 PM
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You are going to waste this much time and effort over this when they consume less than 1 watt in standby mode? That doesn't make much sense.
That's not the prob... they are in "standby" mode. They're just not coming out of it.
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post #18457 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 04:08 PM
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That's not the prob... they are in "standby" mode. They're just not coming out of it.
I may be wrong but I thought he meant "standby" as in the switch is set to ON, but receiver is off/ no signal being sent to the sub.

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post #18458 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 06:49 PM
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I may be wrong but I thought he meant "standby" as in the switch is set to ON, but receiver is off/ no signal being sent to the sub.
I'll try that, however, my previous XV15 made noise when it was set to on and their was no signal from the AVR. It was a relatively low "hum" that it made.

What are people setting their subs to at the MLP with an SPL using a test tone?

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post #18459 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
That's not the prob... they are in "standby" mode. They're just not coming out of it.
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I may be wrong but I thought he meant "standby" as in the switch is set to ON, but receiver is off/ no signal being sent to the sub.

Correct. @Tom Vodhanel can clarify here, but that's my understanding. Power switch set to "ON", but not receiving signal. If anyone has a Kill-a-watt meter, they can check for themselves.
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post #18460 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 07:44 PM
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Correct. @Tom Vodhanel can clarify here, but that's my understanding. Power switch set to "ON", but not receiving signal. If anyone has a Kill-a-watt meter, they can check for themselves.
Ok I'll do that for sure... but I'm thinking that if I run them "hot" then I won't have to.

I know this is like the 10th time asking but I still haven't received any response. Can anyone confirm what the SPL meter should be reading at the MLP with a test tone? MCACC set the mains/surrounds to about 75-76dB but it set the subs much much lower (like less then 60dB without bumping it up manually).

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post #18461 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
MCACC set the mains/surrounds to about 75-76dB but it set the subs much much lower (like less then 60dB without bumping it up manually).
You may have to ask on the MCACC thread. Unfortunately, most folks on this thread are using Audyssey and the expectations are quite different.

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post #18462 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 08:19 PM
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Ok I'll do that for sure... but I'm thinking that if I run them "hot" then I won't have to.

I know this is like the 10th time asking but I still haven't received any response. Can anyone confirm what the SPL meter should be reading at the MLP with a test tone? MCACC set the mains/surrounds to about 75-76dB but it set the subs much much lower (like less then 60dB without bumping it up manually).
How did you determine that? By running AVR test tones?
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post #18463 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 08:34 PM
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How did you determine that? By running AVR test tones?
Yes, exactly.

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post #18464 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 08:42 PM
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Ok that actually puts my mind a bit at ease. Thanks for looking into it Tom.

Just a side note, the manual says to use the Y adapter if the subs aren't turning on from auto... might want to edit

I'm gonna remove my Y adapters from the chain and brainstorm how I am going to get these subs to be "on" when I'm at comfortable listening levels for TV shows (usually somewhere around -30dB).

With that said, what should be the max output on an SPL meter at my MLP with both subs on? Utilizing the test tone.

Turn one of your subs on and gain match it with the AVR's test tone with your spl meter about two inches in front of the center of the driver, adjust gain on the one sub to about 90dB with the meter 2" from the driver. Shut that one off and turn the second one on and do the same thing you did for the first sub (2" 90dB on meter). Place your SPL meter at MLP and turn both subs on and play the AVR's sub test tone and adjust your sub's trim level till you have the desired output, I like to run about 3-4 dB hot or 78-79dB. If you have to repeat the the gain matching to get your subs output to the desired combined output just repeat the first two steps with a higher than 90 dB gain at 2". Forgot to mention not to have trim level on the + side of 0dB, it's always easier to turn the trim levels down to - number.
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post #18465 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 08:58 PM
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^^ perfect thanks Jeff.

What's the reasoning behind trying to keep trim in the negative?
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post #18466 of 22064 Old 04-05-2015, 09:18 PM
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I watched Interstellar tonight.. Wow. Really the first experience I have had with extreme LFE with my xs30se. The glass shelving in my bar was shaking(put rubber in between the pegs and the shelves after the movie), I had to open a door because the latch was vibrating. No small room either 26'Wx19'Wx10'H that opens up to 30' wide for about half of the 26' length. It's also in a basement on a concrete slab. Super impressed with the XS30SE. I am not sure how a house could take more. My Noble Fidelity in-walls are equally impressive. I know that in-walls aren't for the audiophile but I was limited due to the WAF. I am super impressed with both PSA and Noble Fidelity.

Different subject:

Anyone here have any thoughts on TIDAL? I am considering subscribing but curious what you guys think. I almost always stream music and would like to have a higher quality option. The $20/month is pretty expensive for a streaming service. Is the UI good/useful/practical? Can you just pick a genre and let it play songs like pandora?

Thanks in advance!
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post #18467 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 03:04 AM
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Yes, exactly.
When I run MCACC I don't really pay attention to the levels it adjusts to. I do check the sub after i guess and i shoot for what Tom recommended for that. I just turn the master volume up to where i would watch a movie and run it. I normally leave the sub level where it gets set in MCACC but this last time i did bump it .5. When every is referring to running the sub hot does that mean the suv level on the avr is turned up or the gain is turned up?

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Toda is great. And if you think about the 20$ it's not just a streaming service like pandora. You HAVE the entire album in cd quality at your disposal

It's the same price as buying 2 cd's a month but you actually own millions. Worth it to me no doubt
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post #18469 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 05:45 AM
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I watched Interstellar tonight.. Wow. Really the first experience I have had with extreme LFE with my xs30se. The glass shelving in my bar was shaking(put rubber in between the pegs and the shelves after the movie), I had to open a door because the latch was vibrating. No small room either 26'Wx19'Wx10'H that opens up to 30' wide for about half of the 26' length. It's also in a basement on a concrete slab. Super impressed with the XS30SE. I am not sure how a house could take more. My Noble Fidelity in-walls are equally impressive. I know that in-walls aren't for the audiophile but I was limited due to the WAF. I am super impressed with both PSA and Noble Fidelity.
That's awesome! When I was first testing out my XS30se I was playing Star Trek Into Darkness at -10. When it went to Warp, my wife came into the living room from our bathroom across the house and said "rewind that and come in here." I did and heard what she was talking about; the plumbing in our bathroom was rattling! She started laughing!

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post #18470 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 05:47 AM
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^^ perfect thanks Jeff.

What's the reasoning behind trying to keep trim in the negative?
I believe it is to prevent clipping.

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post #18471 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 07:48 AM
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Toda is great. And if you think about the 20$ it's not just a streaming service like pandora. You HAVE the entire album in cd quality at your disposal

It's the same price as buying 2 cd's a month but you actually own millions. Worth it to me no doubt
I assume they use FLAC? I'll try it out today. For $9.99 / mo, Spotify allows streaming of max-bitrate 320kbps mp3s. I can't cite specific tests (heading out the door to work); but, I believe there's some that show that even on top quality systems people can't pick FLAC from 320kbps mp3. I'm not saying that makes Tidal bad; I'm actually just considering whether it makes Tidal worth an extra $10 /mo.

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post #18472 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 07:54 AM
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When every is referring to running the sub hot does that mean the suv level on the avr is turned up or the gain is turned up?
Yes it is just turning the trim up from what MCACC/Audessey has set it to.

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I believe it is to prevent clipping.
Huh I thought clipping happened when the speakers weren't getting enough power and the AVR was being over exerted. How does that correlate with a powered subwoofer?
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post #18473 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Yes it is just turning the trim up from what MCACC/Audessey has set it to.



Huh I thought clipping happened when the speakers weren't getting enough power and the AVR was being over exerted. How does that correlate with a powered subwoofer?
And then you adjust your gain on the sub down or leave it?

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post #18474 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 08:03 AM
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Yes it is just turning the trim up from what MCACC/Audessey has set it to.



Huh I thought clipping happened when the speakers weren't getting enough power and the AVR was being over exerted. How does that correlate with a powered subwoofer?
I'm sure someone here more knowledgable will chime in but I think it has to do with signal clipping when you go above 0 on the subwoofer output on the receiver. I've just always been told to keep your subwoofer level between -5 and 0.
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post #18475 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 08:21 AM
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Huh I thought clipping happened when the speakers weren't getting enough power and the AVR was being over exerted. How does that correlate with a powered subwoofer?
A subwoofer is still in theory a speaker and it has a power amp driving it so just like clipping can occur in your speakers when the AVR runs out of steam during a powerful dynamic moment in the music/movie the same can happen to your sub. The louder you play things the more likely you are to experience clipping if the material you are playing has a powerful peak requiring a lot of power.

There comes a point where you can push any amp to the point where it hits it's ceiling for power and the signal sent to the driver is a clipped signal.
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post #18476 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 08:22 AM
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And then you adjust your gain on the sub down or leave it?
This is with leaving the gain knob alone. Only adjusting level output on the AVR.

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I'm sure someone here more knowledgable will chime in but I think it has to do with signal clipping when you go above 0 on the subwoofer output on the receiver. I've just always been told to keep your subwoofer level between -5 and 0.
That is what I have heard too. I just am wanting to understand the reasoning because Tom suggested that in order for my subs to turn "on" from "auto" at lower volume levels that I would need to increase the level output on the AVR while lower the gain knob on the subs. Even if these means going into the positive on the level output (right now I am at +3.5db on the AVR and they still refuse to kick on at lower volumes). I'm attributing this all to the miniDSP taking away that 6dB from level output of the AVR. Undoubtedly without the miniDSP I wouldn't have this problem.

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post #18477 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 08:26 AM
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A subwoofer is still in theory a speaker and it has a power amp driving it so just like clipping can occur in your speakers when the AVR runs out of steam during a powerful dynamic moment in the music/movie and the same can happen to your sub. The louder you play things the more likely you are to experience clipping if the material you are playing has a powerful peak requiring a lot of power.
But if I'm adjusting the gain knob downward while at the same time increases the level output of the AVR won't clipping be less likely to occur?

I want to know why it has always been recommended that the gain knob be put in such a place (say 2 o'clock) as to get the level output to -5dB or -6dB... Is clipping really more likely to occur than if we were to put the gain knob at 10 o'clock so that the level output of the AVR is set to 0dB-+3dB during an Audyssey/MCACC calibration?

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post #18478 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 08:38 AM
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I'm not sure I'm following what you are asking but the higher you set the gain (2 o'clock vs 10 o'clock) the more the calibration software will back off the trim setting. When my XV15s have a gain set at 2 o'clock Audyssey set my trim at -12. When I set my gain to 1 o'clock my trim is set to -8.5 which is better (see Audyssey thread for the reasons). I like to run my subs hot so I move the trim up to -3. Since I'm still well below 0 or + numbers my subs have plenty of headroom even when I watch a movie at a louder mater volume on the AVR. If the trim is set in the positive realm then all is fine and good as long a you listen at lower volumes. But if you turn up the volume because you want your speakers playing louder AND a moment comes in the movie where there is a spike requiring a lot of output, the sub may run out of headroom and my clip.

I think I have this reasoning right but if I'm wrong someone will jump in and clarify.
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post #18479 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 08:52 AM
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^^Your reasoning is accurate I think I just did explain my question right. I'm wondering why I "shouldn't" set my gain knob to a lower level (like 10 o'clock) so that MCACC sets the channel level output for the sub to something closer to 0dB or even in the positive. I need it to be in the positive because the miniDSP is stealing 6dB of my signal (or so I've been told) so now my subs won't kick "on" from "auto" during lower volume levels.

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My DIY subwoofer build
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post #18480 of 22064 Old 04-06-2015, 08:59 AM
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Oh okay. I think you could do that as long as you keep your listening level under control to avoid the possibility of clipping. It seems to me you could do it and if you experience any clipping then you know you need to turn the master volume down a little or back off the trim setting for that particular movie.
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Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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