Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 622 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-17-2015, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sinisanav View Post
So, guys, I have a question. a few posts earlier in this quite busy day on this thread I asked about the experiences with XS15se,XS30 etc, I definitely see that you liked a lot the XS30(se) in your theaters.

so, for comparison, can you tell me what are the sizes of the spaces where you use pair of XS30 or just one.
My HT is 13x15x7.5 about 1500 cubic ft. I think dual XS15se or S1500 will pressurize that space plenty, but what are your thoughts?
Your room size is fine for a single XS30 as far as pressurizing is concerned but going dual is a better idea (if you can do it) because of the smoothing factor you will get for the bass.

So if it's a choice between going with dual XS15s (or S1500s) or going with a single XS30, I would go with the duals.

But if you really wanted to go all the way you could always go with dual XS30s but I don't think that would be worth the extra cash (IMO).
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Old 04-17-2015, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bossdog304 View Post
My room is 34x22x8. I run ported though hence the XV30 vs XS30. If I had a smaller room I would pick up sealed though.
Yeah, I have over 5000 cu ft so I am running dual XV15se's. But I have to confess I am wondering what dual XS30se's would be like in the room.
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Old 04-17-2015, 09:49 PM
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Hop I would go dual 3000i...pretty much the same output around the XV15 tune but 2 times the output in the meat of the power band!!
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Old 04-17-2015, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Yeah, I have over 5000 cu ft so I am running dual XV15se's. But I have to confess I am wondering what dual XS30se's would be like in the room.
Note that the biggest differences between the S3000i and the XS30se where in the lowest ranges where a ported subwoofer would make a difference. Honestly, if you're going to go sealed in that size, you gotta go "serious sealed" with something like the S3000i or the Seaton Submersive.

Note that after seeing the graph of the XS30se vs. the S3000i that I'm confident that for the BASH amp models, I would have ended up going ported in my room.
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Old 04-17-2015, 09:55 PM
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Amps

Hey Guys just a heads up I might be selling a couple of amps and wanted to throw them out here before I list them in the classifieds.

EMO 1st GEN XPA 3 about 35 months left of factory warranty.

ATI 602 also about 35 months left of warranty.

PM if interested, letting them go LOW.............$$$$$
Cheers Jeff
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:04 PM
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Hey Guys just a heads up I might be selling a couple of amps and wanted to throw them out here before I list them in the classifieds.
Why are you selling these amps--just curious!

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Old 04-17-2015, 10:25 PM
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Why are you selling these amps--just curious!
I have too many components as it is now and I'm building a new rack and don't need all the amps, plus I have all PSA speakers and really don't need the extra power. I have a couple of older amps laying around as well so I plan on doing a little house cleaning so to speak. Thanks B for asking
Cheers Jeff
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:34 AM
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Sorry, I'm confused. I made a comment saying I like the old grill look better. Then much later Tom makes a comment about who's complaining now. What? I don't understand the meaning of his post where he quoted me.
I'm sorry man, I was just messing with ya...I really have no idea what the context was
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:59 AM
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Just ordered the S1500. Looking forward to having a "real" sub.
You're going to love it.
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:19 AM
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I watched John Wick yesterday through Apple Tv streaming. It was awesome. PSA V1500 is perfect for Movies. The car crash scenes and club scene was unbelievably awesome.

Test a subwoofer with some Dubstep songs, if you still not do.
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by sinisanav View Post
So, guys, I have a question. a few posts earlier in this quite busy day on this thread I asked about the experiences with XS15se,XS30 etc, I definitely see that you liked a lot the XS30(se) in your theaters.

so, for comparison, can you tell me what are the sizes of the spaces where you use pair of XS30 or just one.
My HT is 13x15x7.5 about 1500 cubic ft. I think dual XS15se or S1500 will pressurize that space plenty, but what are your thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Hop I would go dual 3000i...pretty much the same output around the XV15 tune but 2 times the output in the meat of the power band!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
Note that the biggest differences between the S3000i and the XS30se where in the lowest ranges where a ported subwoofer would make a difference. Honestly, if you're going to go sealed in that size, you gotta go "serious sealed" with something like the S3000i or the Seaton Submersive.

Note that after seeing the graph of the XS30se vs. the S3000i that I'm confident that for the BASH amp models, I would have ended up going ported in my room.
My room is 12 x 14 x 7.5 but open to the rest of the first floor at 2 openings, one of those is a very large opening that is also open to the stairway to 2nd floor. Not sealed in any way and that is the real reason I have been looking for more.

The single non se XS30 has done well here but there was no way to get real pressurization from it in this environment. Sure things would rattle and shake but no chest slam and that was the area that I found wanting more during action movies. Some like Into The Storm sounded great for the big storm scenes but other movies that should have effects that I feel just were not there. Lets face it, we are not talking about settling for less because its an entry level sub, I just think its just not right for the room and I am looking to get what I want if spending this kind of money.

Placement is good after trying the options available and using Anthem's sweeps to check output at each. I finally got REW up and running and the graph looks pretty damn good for a single sub (see below for uncorrected sweep). For the last year I have been talking with Tom periodically as well as researching the possibly of changing to quality ported duals that would handle music as well as movies. The addition of 3 210's set me back for at least 6 months as I focused on that area. Even now is not the best time to make a change but I am also realizing that the resale value of the XS30 is dropping as new options are coming to market with PSA as well as others like RA.

@nalthien comparison of the V1500 and S3000i was invaluable to me and after some more interaction with Tom I think dual sealed is the way to go for me. When I told Tom that a big area that I thought was lacking was the "feel" of a kick drum that I get at live concerts. For Tom, last statement was the point that the dual S3000i really became be the likely answer for this room and that dual S1500 could be lacking. Cost is an object for me but at some point am I spending more by trying to making something work and chasing the elusive rainbow?

As @basshead81 pointed out the S3000i is getting serious output in the whole spectrum and nalthien is right that in a larger area, sealed needs serious options like Seaton Submersive or similar. As 2 S3000i will equal almost 3 XS30se and almost 4 XS30 its time to put this to the test here. The only caveat is that my placement of duals is very limited and really hoping that 2 up front will work....we'll see how that pans out.
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sinisanav View Post
So, guys, I have a question. a few posts earlier in this quite busy day on this thread I asked about the experiences with XS15se,XS30 etc, I definitely see that you liked a lot the XS30(se) in your theaters.

so, for comparison, can you tell me what are the sizes of the spaces where you use pair of XS30 or just one.
My HT is 13x15x7.5 about 1500 cubic ft. I think dual XS15se or S1500 will pressurize that space plenty, but what are your thoughts?
My HT room is 14x28 with 10' ceiling (6' wide, then sloping to a height of 5' on each side). No problem pressurizing that space with dual S1500 (and I bet one could do it as well). These things are very potent!
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:12 AM
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Thanks all of you above, your input was extremely valuable, with all you mentioned, spaces and your listening/watching preferences I think I will be quite happy with dual xs15se or S1500 in my dedicated space without opening. I like to here and feel the rumble, or a good kick or the drum, but I do not require to be treated for chest wall contusions after a seating in My HT
My old space, that was 25x29x8 ft would have asked for bigger guns( S3000) , but I think I will be good with the "small" stuff.

Change is the only constant.

My HT: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post32691273
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:54 AM
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Anyone got a minidsp 2x4 they want to get rid of?
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bossdog304 View Post
V3600! C'mon. I was hoping you were working on a ported/vented design. It was hard enough lugging 2 XV30fse's down the stairs by myself now this? Damn I badly want a prototype
We really didn't have any plans to revise the XV30Fse until we measured the V1500. Shop conversation went something like this...

Jim : V1500 is done, wanna see the data-set?
Tom : Very nice, look at the bottom-end.
Jim : yup.
Tom : Wait, hang on one second(goes to get the XV30Fse data sheet)
Tom :minor problem...the V1500 is too close to the XV30Fse...you know what that means, right?
Jim : heavy sigh...

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Old 04-18-2015, 10:38 AM
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Anyone got a minidsp 2x4 they want to get rid of?

I have one. PM in 3, 2, 1 .....
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
Note that the biggest differences between the S3000i and the XS30se where in the lowest ranges where a ported subwoofer would make a difference. Honestly, if you're going to go sealed in that size, you gotta go "serious sealed" with something like the S3000i or the Seaton Submersive.

Note that after seeing the graph of the XS30se vs. the S3000i that I'm confident that for the BASH amp models, I would have ended up going ported in my room.
Yup...after seeing those measurements comparing the s3000i vs xs30se...right around 35hz you can clearly see substantial advantage. That alone would be reason big enough for me wanting to upgrade...but under current economic circumstances, it would require another financial commitment. I might need to discuss matters with PSA...if the new amp would be worthwhile investment. I'm in the midst of planning another trip down that way later this summer. Last visit I exchanged the "SE" units and came away very happy with the out come....I'm just not sure if the amp alone is making all that difference?

Btw...thanks for all the work you did within this thread...heh...that's why I'm so timid in delving into fully EQing my room..

Cheers...Bill
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:53 PM
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Yup...after seeing those measurements comparing the s3000i vs xs30se...right around 35hz you can clearly see substantial advantage. That alone would be reason big enough for me wanting to upgrade...but under current economic circumstances, it would require another financial commitment. I might need to discuss matters with PSA...if the new amp would be worthwhile investment. I'm in the midst of planning another trip down that way later this summer. Last visit I exchanged the "SE" units and came away very happy with the out come....I'm just not sure if the amp alone is making all that difference?

Btw...thanks for all the work you did within this thread...heh...that's why I'm so timid in delving into fully EQing my room..

Cheers...Bill
If you want the 1700 watt amp then you would have to replace the SE driver too, now if you wanted to replace the Bash amp with the S3000 ( discontinued model ) Ice amp the difference would be so minute you would be wasting your money.

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Old 04-18-2015, 02:05 PM
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Guys quick REW question, I use the camera (caption) to save my graphs into documents, how do you save your graphs in REW, when I hit the save icon it becomes a mdat file and wants to put it in documents. Is there a folder in REW to save your graphs so you can go back to them and compare and overlay other FR sweeps? Thanks and sorry for the simple questions.
Cheers Jeff
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinisanav View Post
Thanks all of you above, your input was extremely valuable, with all you mentioned, spaces and your listening/watching preferences I think I will be quite happy with dual xs15se or S1500 in my dedicated space without opening. I like to here and feel the rumble, or a good kick or the drum, but I do not require to be treated for chest wall contusions after a seating in My HT
My old space, that was 25x29x8 ft would have asked for bigger guns( S3000) , but I think I will be good with the "small" stuff.
Have you talked at all with PSA? I think that in your sealed (?) 13x15x7.5 room, either dual xs15se or S1500 will be just fine. At one point, when Tom thought my room was sealed, he was recommending those options as well.
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:26 PM
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Yes, I have chatted with Tom, he mentioned that as well, S1500 or xs15, leaving the option for XS30se if I want to go really loud.
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Last edited by sinisanav; 04-18-2015 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Guys quick REW question, I use the camera (caption) to save my graphs into documents, how do you save your graphs in REW, when I hit the save icon it becomes a mdat file and wants to put it in documents. Is there a folder in REW to save your graphs so you can go back to them and compare and overlay other FR sweeps? Thanks and sorry for the simple questions.
Cheers Jeff
Click the save all measurements and browse to a location on your computer or Dropbox (create a REW folder), give it a name to save it there. I store my graphs on Dropbox so I can access them anywhere.
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Old 04-18-2015, 03:20 PM
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If I'm going to spend close to a grand I want to go with as new as I can get, and that means, ICE. The S1500 is above my budget, but I'm selling some speaker cables on ebay that will get me closer to my original budget.
Sold for $141.50. That puts me $7.50 over budget. Glad I went with my gut and ordered the S1500.
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Old 04-18-2015, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Hop I would go dual 3000i...pretty much the same output around the XV15 tune but 2 times the output in the meat of the power band!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
Note that the biggest differences between the S3000i and the XS30se where in the lowest ranges where a ported subwoofer would make a difference. Honestly, if you're going to go sealed in that size, you gotta go "serious sealed" with something like the S3000i or the Seaton Submersive.

Note that after seeing the graph of the XS30se vs. the S3000i that I'm confident that for the BASH amp models, I would have ended up going ported in my room.
Good call, you guys are right. Someday perhaps I will be able to try out the S3000i for myself. These PSA products are an addiction and I don't know the cure. Except to buy more.
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:07 AM
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After seeing the chart comparing XS30se vs S3000i, I have to admit I'm somewhat tempted to trade up to the S3000i before my 30 days are up. However that is still a fairly substantial price increase, especially for duals. I just don't know how noticeable it would be. I'm pretty sure comparing ONE of each would be noticeable, but what about TWO? Wouldn't I have to be hitting the limits of the XS30se before I would notice an improvement from the S3000i?

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Old 04-19-2015, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Here are the XS15se vs. the S1500 and the XS30se versus the S3000i graphs.

Also, I should have been more clear....we won't be posting any data on the V3600 proto-type until we are confident on the final form.

Tom V.
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This graph shows roughly a 3dB difference below 30Hz while the numbers listed on the product description on the website shows only 1dB difference. I'm confused

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Old 04-19-2015, 08:46 AM
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OK so I just looked at the long term compression charts for both and that is where it's showing a 3dB difference. I guess I just need to hear from Tom if it is worth going from dual XS30se's to dual S3000i's.

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Old 04-19-2015, 09:12 AM
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This graph shows roughly a 3dB difference below 30Hz while the numbers listed on the product description on the website shows only 1dB difference. I'm confused
FR graphs and CEA-2010 burst checks are two totally different performance metrics.

The S3000i is the real deal. Each S3000i uses TWO ICE amplifier modules with one mounted inside the enclosure. So each 15" woofer has its own module. We've gotten a couple S1500s back and a handful of V1500s(most in trade-up for the S3000i) but we have yet to get a single S3000i back.

Here is the S3000i compression from Sunday.

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Old 04-19-2015, 09:19 AM
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OK so I just looked at the long term compression charts for both and that is where it's showing a 3dB difference. I guess I just need to hear from Tom if it is worth going from dual XS30se's to dual S3000i's.
Whenever I read a "is it worth it" question I always think of the line from Mad Max...."Speed is just a question of money, how fast do you want to go?"

Dual S3000i will be similar to triple XS30se in terms of headroom(clean output capabilities). If you find yourself pushing dual XS30se to their output limits on a regular basis, then yes, we should consider the S3000i. But otherwise, the dual XS30se represent the better value in many scenarios. We are still selling the XS30se in good numbers. In fact I bet they are selling at about the same rate as the S3000i.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
After seeing the chart comparing XS30se vs S3000i, I have to admit I'm somewhat tempted to trade up to the S3000i before my 30 days are up. However that is still a fairly substantial price increase, especially for duals. I just don't know how noticeable it would be. I'm pretty sure comparing ONE of each would be noticeable, but what about TWO? Wouldn't I have to be hitting the limits of the XS30se before I would notice an improvement from the S3000i?
That is correct. The two models will tend to sound darn near identical until you approach the output limits of the XS30se.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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