Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 626 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18751 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
ch1 = fl
ch2 = fr
ch3 = cc
ch4 = lfe
ch5 = sl
ch6 = sr
ch7 = sbl
ch8 = sbr


Thanks again, last? Am I supposed to run the mains with the sub when doing a sweep if so how is that possible when you can only pick one output?
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post #18752 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 12:20 PM
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^^ if you have speakers set to small which is recommended, running sweep on them will also include the sub(s).
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post #18753 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I just calculated that I can order my second XS30se in fifteen weeks!
I have a better idea....Use Paypal credit and you can get the sub right away!!

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post #18754 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tang7969 View Post
I have a better idea....Use Paypal credit and you can get the sub right away!!
That's actually how I'm paying for this one!
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post #18755 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by pony9134 View Post
Thanks again, last? Am I supposed to run the mains with the sub when doing a sweep if so how is that possible when you can only pick one output?
Not very intuitive, but you choose the second output channel with the "Timing Reference Output" dropdown.

You want to measure FL+sub(s), FR+sub(s) and CC+sub(s)....never FR+FL+sub(s). The most important measurement (if your system is used mainly for movies) is the CC+sub(s).

As tvuong mentioned, as long as you have bass management engaged, all of these "+sub(s)" measurements only require you to output to one channel (FR, FL, CC).

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Getting Started with REW
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post #18756 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tang7969 View Post
I have a better idea....Use Paypal credit and you can get the sub right away!!
Ha...I approve of this suggestion.


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V: Vizio P702UI-b3 | Ps3 | Roku 3 | AppleTV
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post #18757 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 04:52 PM
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thanks Alan and tvuong, gonna give it another go tonight, when people post graphs on here, is it with front and center, or just sub, o
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post #18758 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 05:39 PM
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Compression Sweep

Guys here's the compression sweep I started but had to stop cause I thought I was going to blow something up, I stopped at -20 I think. I might had the output to high when I started

I included 2nd graph (subs only) with Audy 3rd before Audy

The last graph is before and after Audy speakers, I don't see any improvements.

Is there a way to check your UMIK-1 to know if it's working properly, my speakers can't be this bad

My subs are looking a little better yes?
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post #18759 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 05:45 PM
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Well first off your speakers aren't bad. Your room is. You need treatments. Badly. Also need to move your mlp

And you also need to post your graphs properly. They are very hard to make comparisons so differently

When posting subs only the graph should only go to 300hz not to 20000hz

Also they have to be in 5db increments not 10
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post #18760 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 05:56 PM
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Hey is it true that I can use the UMIK-1 with my iPad?

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, PSA XS30SE
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post #18761 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 06:11 PM
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Thanks Brian, I think I have two or three posted correctly.................







I think I need a radical re-setup
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post #18762 of 18776 Old Yesterday, 07:38 PM
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^^ you also need to name your measurements. You will not remember if you just left them as the date/time stamps. As I mentioned before, concentrate on subs and/or center + subs in the 7-150hz region. Your speakers FR look good. On your compression sweeps, we need to know how much higher on your MV from one graph to another. You could name your measurements as -15MV, -10MV, etc...You mentioned you stopped at -20MV on sweeps, your FR on this sweep should be centered around 95dbs if measured with-3db FS in REW. Your highest sweep seems to be centered around 105-110db unless you run your subs 10db hotter or audyssey didnot set your subs level correctly.
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post #18763 of 18776 Old Today, 07:51 AM
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ahblaza, you're getting some nice extension there. I think, as Brian mentioned, it is time to add some room treatments.

I did that about a year ago - a few foam squares to start, and noticed a small difference. After treating it a bit more, it was a dramatic difference, really.

Head over to ATS, GIK Acoustics or Real Traps. You can make the treatments yourself (Owen Corning 703, for example, and a trip to home depot for lumber) or simply buy them, ready to go. Some can be expensive, but they are very, very worth it.

Don't discourage! You have some fantastic gear... just add some acoustic treatments
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Yippee-ki-yay...
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post #18764 of 18776 Old Today, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cesar123 View Post
ahblaza, you're getting some nice extension there. I think, as Brian mentioned, it is time to add some room treatments.

I did that about a year ago - a few foam squares to start, and noticed a small difference. After treating it a bit more, it was a dramatic difference, really.

Head over to ATS, GIK Acoustics or Real Traps. You can make the treatments yourself (Owen Corning 703, for example, and a trip to home depot for lumber) or simply buy them, ready to go. Some can be expensive, but they are very, very worth it.

Don't discourage! You have some fantastic gear... just add some acoustic treatments
I did the same this year, in my new HT, 300$ worth of acoustical treatments made wonders for the clarity of sound.
I had to fiddle with settings, turn center channel hot to be able to hear/understand the spoken word, bass was boomy, but with some absorption and bass trapping, everything cleared up.
Best 300 $ you can use on your space, and another thing, people often chase the better and better sound, and don't like how their sub or speakers work and look for an upgrade, at the same time not treating the room. Acoustics plays such a big role in what we hear within the small spaces such as HT's are.
Check the pics of my room with treatments in my sign line. I used GIK acoustics.
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Change is the only constant.

My HT: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post32691273

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post #18765 of 18776 Old Today, 12:26 PM
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I used GIK acoustics.
Thanks. I submitted pics and details on their acoustic advice form.
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Hey is it true that I can use the UMIK-1 with my iPad?
You can yes, but the review I read of a guy who tested this out did not give me great confidence that the results would be as accurate as using a laptop.
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post #18767 of 18776 Unread Today, 01:54 PM
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Something Jim and I have been discussing/working on for a while now.

Dual 18s, 1700w of ICE power, vented. Still a work in progress but here is one proto type. The final form will certainly be smaller.

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I've been expecting to see some sort of replacement for the XV30FSE.
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post #18768 of 18776 Unread Today, 03:29 PM
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^^ you also need to name your measurements. You will not remember if you just left them as the date/time stamps. As I mentioned before, concentrate on subs and/or center + subs in the 7-150hz region. Your speakers FR look good. On your compression sweeps, we need to know how much higher on your MV from one graph to another. You could name your measurements as -15MV, -10MV, etc...You mentioned you stopped at -20MV on sweeps, your FR on this sweep should be centered around 95dbs if measured with-3db FS in REW. Your highest sweep seems to be centered around 105-110db unless you run your subs 10db hotter or audyssey didnot set your subs level correctly.
Tony, you really think the speakers look good, I've been moving and changing things around all day and plan on measuring all night. I will concentrate on the subs and / or c + Subs in the 7-150Hz range, I'm getting tremendous extension and output down low. Everything just sounded so good until I started taking FR sweeps of everything. OK with the sweeps you said I should have been at 95dB at -20, so then at -30 I should be at 85 dB, I will adjust gain on the sub(s) to be 85dB when MV is set to -30, this way I should be in the right range.

I don't run my subs 10 hot, so I want -3dB FS in REW CH 4 subs set to bypass so all I'm measuring is my sub(s) correct. I wonder if you could help me here, I want to lower my UMIK-1 gain from 18dB to 12dB, Jerry said this is where most of the guys use on the REW forum. I know I have to physically change the settings in the mic itself and the Sens Factor by -6dB.

Here's what it looks like now and after I change the SENS FACTOR, please tell me if I did it right, it's not a permanent change yet, I wanted to see if this is the correct way to do it (subtracting -6dB from the original cal sens factor.
"Sens Factor =0.6814dB, SERNO: 7005070" After change "Sens Factor =-5.3186dB, SERNO: 7005070" correct?

Thanks Tony for all the help and encouragement, how does that sub only graph look, I would like to get like that before any RC.

Cheers Jeff
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post #18769 of 18776 Unread Today, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cesar123 View Post
ahblaza, you're getting some nice extension there. I think, as Brian mentioned, it is time to add some room treatments.

I did that about a year ago - a few foam squares to start, and noticed a small difference. After treating it a bit more, it was a dramatic difference, really.

Head over to ATS, GIK Acoustics or Real Traps. You can make the treatments yourself (Owen Corning 703, for example, and a trip to home depot for lumber) or simply buy them, ready to go. Some can be expensive, but they are very, very worth it.

Don't discourage! You have some fantastic gear... just add some acoustic treatments
Cesar, how do I know where to put them and what type to use, I'm going to try some radical moves tonight and post results, my stuff sounds too good to measure so poorly..........seriously.
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post #18770 of 18776 Unread Today, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ you also need to name your measurements. You will not remember if you just left them as the date/time stamps. As I mentioned before, concentrate on subs and/or center + subs in the 7-150hz region. Your speakers FR look good. On your compression sweeps, we need to know how much higher on your MV from one graph to another. You could name your measurements as -15MV, -10MV, etc...You mentioned you stopped at -20MV on sweeps, your FR on this sweep should be centered around 95dbs if measured with-3db FS in REW. Your highest sweep seems to be centered around 105-110db unless you run your subs 10db hotter or audyssey didnot set your subs level correctly.
Tony, how do you NAME them, I thought I did on the top of the graph, so you can name them on the bottom where the date and dB value are? TIA
Cheers Jeff
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post #18771 of 18776 Unread Today, 03:50 PM
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Tony, how do you NAME them, I thought I did on the top of the graph, so you can name them on the bottom where the date and dB value are? TIA
Cheers Jeff

Here Jeff.

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AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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Cesar, how do I know where to put them and what type to use, I'm going to try some radical moves tonight and post results, my stuff sounds too good to measure so poorly..........seriously.
Bass traps go at the intersection of boundaries - corners, wall to floor, wall to ceiling.

For the higher frequencies, you want to treat the first reflection points. A good way to find those points is with the mirror test (sit in the MLP and have someone slide a mirror along the wall, when you can see the speaker that is the first reflection point).

This is very very basic, but will get you started. For more info, visit GIK Acoustics site....they have a lot of good info there.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #18773 of 18776 Unread Today, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Tony, you really think the speakers look good, I've been moving and changing things around all day and plan on measuring all night. I will concentrate on the subs and / or c + Subs in the 7-150Hz range, I'm getting tremendous extension and output down low. Everything just sounded so good until I started taking FR sweeps of everything. OK with the sweeps you said I should have been at 95dB at -20, so then at -30 I should be at 85 dB, I will adjust gain on the sub(s) to be 85dB when MV is set to -30, this way I should be in the right range.

I don't run my subs 10 hot, so I want -3dB FS in REW CH 4 subs set to bypass so all I'm measuring is my sub(s) correct. I wonder if you could help me here, I want to lower my UMIK-1 gain from 18dB to 12dB, Jerry said this is where most of the guys use on the REW forum. I know I have to physically change the settings in the mic itself and the Sens Factor by -6dB.

Here's what it looks like now and after I change the SENS FACTOR, please tell me if I did it right, it's not a permanent change yet, I wanted to see if this is the correct way to do it (subtracting -6dB from the original cal sens factor.
"Sens Factor =0.6814dB, SERNO: 7005070" After change "Sens Factor =-5.3186dB, SERNO: 7005070" correct?

Thanks Tony for all the help and encouragement, how does that sub only graph look, I would like to get like that before any RC.

Cheers Jeff
I think the speakers are looking good as well. The subs, not so much...although kind of hard to tell because they look better in some graphs than others but the graphs aren't consistent.

Yes, that is exactly how you would adjust the sens factor. To check it, output Speaker Cal Pink Noise to the CC from REW at -30db at MV0 and it should register 75db on the SPL meter (85db if outputting to CH4/LFE).

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Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #18774 of 18776 Unread Today, 04:03 PM
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Jeff,
You do not need to lower your umik gain as long as you don't get REW clipping measuring at high output level (0MV for example if audyssey set your level correctly). People, who lower the gain on umik have subs that can play above 125db which I don't think your subs pair can. Here is the run down for what you need and leave your mic alone:
1. Run at least one Audyssey position at MLP.
2. Verify if Audyssey set levels correctly by:
a) set your receiver volume to -30
b) run REW measurements with -3dbFS (I would always leave it at this -3dbFS) with hdmi1, then 2, then 3 for from 7-18000hz. Your three graphs here should be centered around 75db (use 1/6 smoothing to view). If they are not, raise or lower your left, right and center speakers and repeat this step till graphs show 75db average. Repeat the same step with hdmi 4 measurement (measure from 7-200 or 300hz). This graph should be centered around 85db. If not, use receiver sub trims to raise or lower the subs, measure again till graph shows 85db average. I found that Audyssey always set my subs about 2db lower than what they should be. Now that we verify all your levels are correct, you can proceed to run compression sweeps on hdmi 4. Start with receiver volume at -20, then increase by 5 till seeing compression (-20MV, -15MV, -10MV). DO NOT run sweep any higher if your last sweep show compression as it could damage your subs and warranty does not cover this. Your graph for -20MV sweep should now be centered around 95db, 105db for -10MV sweep and 115db (reference level) for 0MV sweep. Now, measure hdmi3 and use sub distance tweak and measure again and again till achieving flat FR at crossover point. Always measure with receiver dynVOL and dynEQ OFF. Hope this gets you going

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post #18775 of 18776 Unread Today, 05:01 PM
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Cesar, how do I know where to put them and what type to use, I'm going to try some radical moves tonight and post results, my stuff sounds too good to measure so poorly..........seriously.
Jeff, I used a software that lets you put all the info of your room (WxLxH; size of speakers; TV, distances and stuff). It's very simplistic but works oh so well! It tells you where the first reflection points are.
Unfortunately, I only have it on my work computer - oh the irony - but I'm at home now. I'll try to send you that program sometime tomorrow, but definitely before the end of the week.
I found it here at AVS... not sure the name of it nor the name of the thread

As Alan said, the corners are the most common place for bass traps - but they have to be thick!

Also, just like Aliens did, you can submit photos of your room at the GIK Acoustics website, provide them with a preliminary budget, and they will suggest you what you should/could do with your room.

As a starter, thick curtains and a shaggy rug is a nice first step.

But proper treatments make a huge difference and you should certainly check them out (too bad PSA doesn't offer that with the free shipping both ways, eh? )

One last thing: at the end of the day, don't worry too much about graphs. If the system is sounding good to you, hooray. Is there room for improvement? Well, always. But you gotta keep having fun! That's the whole point of this hobby.

Yippee-ki-yay...

Last edited by cesar123; Today at 05:05 PM. Reason: edit a few words due to a few beers affecting my speech and typing
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post #18776 of 18776 Unread Today, 05:02 PM
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tvuong's post is like a REW guide... in a couple of paragraphs! Great stuff!

Yippee-ki-yay...
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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