Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 634 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18991 of 19303 Old 05-03-2015, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I'm still hoping that once Tom and Jim get a moment they will tweak the BASH amps to try and see if they can get the newer SE versions of the XV and XS subs the extension that the non-SE version had. Tom mentioned taking a look at this a while back.
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Yeah, sorry again about that bass(and there 3-4 others we PLANNED on shipping upgrades). A combination of events transpired to delay this and ultimately have us cancel it altogether.

The whole point was to gather info that we could rely on to anyone asking about the differences between the current SE products and the new ICE powered products. Secondary to that was attempting to get opinions on if we should offer ICE upgrades to current SE products. We had scheduled 6 amps to be expressed in(over nighted) to get here about 15 days before we were going to make the new ICE product announcements and begin taking orders. So we could have all of the feedback here BEFORE the ICE announcements.

However there was a last second delay in this as circuit revisions delayed things at the OEM. So we never got any production samples early. Also, the more we thought about it the more we leaned toward NOT offering the ICE amps as upgrades. The pricing just didn't make any sense in relation to the (mostly subtle) performance increases involved in our opinion.

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I hadn't heard anything about tweaking the SE model amps for better extension.
Tom?

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post #18992 of 19303 Old 05-03-2015, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I hadn't heard anything about tweaking the SE model amps for better extension.
Tom?
That is still on our "to do" list but there are quite a few things taking precedent at the moment. To be honest it is in the "we'll get to this when we can" list. I think I've always mentioned it is something we MIGHT be able to do. Jury is still out until we can do some testing.

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post #18993 of 19303 Old 05-03-2015, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I would caution against looking at any singular T/S parameter for an audio driver. First, any claims of unusually large "xmax" should always be backed up with some evidence. A Klippel test report for example. Second, you are limiting yourself to one(out of dozens) parameter on one(out of several) key elements in any speaker or subwoofer design. Put a short throw 10mm xmax driver in the hands of a talented engineer and I'd bet folks would be shocked on how much better it sounds versus the "biggest driver in the biggest box with the biggest amp" approach.

To answer the questions though....we don't provide any T/S parameters on our products, sorry.

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Power Sound Audio
Hi Tom,

As you would have read in my later posts I had already measured T/S and just needed xmax (and power handling helps) for bassbox to help with modelling a suitable box instead of blatantly copying your design and needing to EQ to suit as I use pro amps. The drivers were picked up at a reasonable price so I thought I'd have a go at it as I have a room full of 12inch subs with PR's!

I understand you not disclosing TS parameters as that would lead to quick copies out of china like everything else in this world...

Regards,
Brett
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post #18994 of 19303 Old 05-03-2015, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by deepat04 View Post
It is an SVS SB12NSD
Thanks, I knew the SB13 couldn't be that much smaller. I needed a smaller sub and almost got the SB13 but went with PSA.
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post #18995 of 19303 Old 05-03-2015, 06:23 PM
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It is an SVS SB12NSD
So wait, did you pick an sb12-nsd over the s1500?
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post #18996 of 19303 Old 05-03-2015, 07:06 PM
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So wait, did you pick an sb12-nsd over the s1500?
No an SVS SB13U

The picture with the S1500 is with my SVS SB12NSD
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post #18997 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I hadn't heard anything about tweaking the SE model amps for better extension.
Tom?
It would not be much of a change for the sealed subs. The biggest change would have been for the ported versions.
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post #18998 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

I'm about to start my acoustic project.
I spent the last week building acoustic panels for my entertainment room. I really wasn't sure what to expect. Would this be so subtle that I would convince myself I was hearing a difference when there actually wasn't one, or would it put a smile on my face. Well, it put a huge smile on my face. I'm not going to use a bunch of superlatives to describe the difference, but the clarity of everything is so much better. Even my wife, who never seems to notice when I upgrade my room, said it sounded clearer. There is a very noticeable difference coming from the center channel, and a crispness coming from every speaker.

I've attached some pics from my modest room. Also, for those that are interested in numbers and what they mean or don't mean, the zip will show Audyssey before and after the treatment. In this instance, unlike pre-acoustics, the sub is now a set it and forget it. I ran another Audyessy this morning when the neighborhood was quieter and in the proper order, that is why the differences between left and right are more inline with one another. So, for $377 and a new S1500, my room that has so many "bad" things about it has been transformed.


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post #18999 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 07:07 AM
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For double duty, 50/50 music and HT, XS15se or the XV15se. I really like the idea of the higher output for movies, but fear the bass may be a bit muddled when it comes to 2 channel listening.
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post #19000 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JusCogens View Post
For double duty, 50/50 music and HT, XS15se or the XV15se. I really like the idea of the higher output for movies, but fear the bass may be a bit muddled when it comes to 2 channel listening.
Well if the room is small enough or you don't listen very loud you won't need the extra output, so you might as well save some coin and get the xs15se.

How big is the room in cubic feet and how loud do you listen relative to reference level?
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post #19001 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Well if the room is small enough or you don't listen very loud you won't need the extra output, so you might as well save some coin and get the xs15se.

How big is the room in cubic feet and how loud do you listen relative to reference level?
The room is 3000ft3. I generally listen about -10db although occasionally I will listen at reference (this was with my old system, currently rebuilding my ht, the sub is one of the first stops on the journey)

Thanks!
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post #19002 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JusCogens View Post
The room is 3000ft3. I generally listen about -10db although occasionally I will listen at reference (this was with my old system, currently rebuilding my ht, the sub is one of the first stops on the journey)

Thanks!
3000 cu-fr and pushing reference levels on occasion go with the Xv15se. With music the XV15se and XS15se will sound similar. In fact you might have a tough time telling one from the other if you had both in the room for a comparison. The main performance difference will be 15-30hz output. This is a relatively narrow but important bandwidth with regards to action oriented movies.

Tom V.
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post #19003 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 08:51 AM
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Well, after about 3-1/2 hours of tinkering last night, I was finally able to get my Laptop and REW to agree with each other and I was able to do several repeatable sweeps and the results confirmed what I was hearing. There is a huge null at 55Hz. It was late and I didn’t really have any time to do any tweaking or moving of the subs, but I was just thrilled to finally get REW to work.

Quick question though. As far as microphone positioning, it should be pointing straight up at the ceiling when measuring, correct?

I have the UMIK-1
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post #19004 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 09:09 AM
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Quick question though. As far as microphone positioning, it should be pointing straight up at the ceiling when measuring, correct?
Yes. And using a 90-degree calibration file.


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post #19005 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 09:20 AM
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Yes. And using a 90-degree calibration file.
Cool, thanks for the confirmation.

I used the calibration file from the miniDSP site that I downloaded after entering the mic's serial number so I should be good there.
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post #19006 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JusCogens View Post
The room is 3000ft3. I generally listen about -10db although occasionally I will listen at reference (this was with my old system, currently rebuilding my ht, the sub is one of the first stops on the journey)

Thanks!
Like Tom said, it sounds like the xv15se is the better choice for you. I have a pair of them myself and think they sound great for music, as does everyone that has come over and listened to them. Very clean and powerful when the source material calls for it.
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post #19007 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
3000 cu-fr and pushing reference levels on occasion go with the Xv15se. With music the XV15se and XS15se will sound similar. In fact you might have a tough time telling one from the other if you had both in the room for a comparison. The main performance difference will be 15-30hz output. This is a relatively narrow but important bandwidth with regards to action oriented movies.

Tom V.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Like Tom said, it sounds like the xv15se is the better choice for you. I have a pair of them myself and think they sound great for music, as does everyone that has come over and listened to them. Very clean and powerful when the source material calls for it.
Thanks for the advice! Sounds like the XV15Se is the say to go!
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post #19008 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post
I spent the last week building acoustic panels for my entertainment room. I really wasn't sure what to expect. Would this be so subtle that I would convince myself I was hearing a difference when there actually wasn't one, or would it put a smile on my face. Well, it put a huge smile on my face. I'm not going to use a bunch of superlatives to describe the difference, but the clarity of everything is so much better. Even my wife, who never seems to notice when I upgrade my room, said it sounded clearer. There is a very noticeable difference coming from the center channel, and a crispness coming from every speaker.

I've attached some pics from my modest room. Also, for those that are interested in numbers and what they mean or don't mean, the zip will show Audyssey before and after the treatment. In this instance, unlike pre-acoustics, the sub is now a set it and forget it. I ran another Audyessy this morning when the neighborhood was quieter and in the proper order, that is why the differences between left and right are more inline with one another. So, for $377 and a new S1500, my room that has so many "bad" things about it has been transformed.


Very nice. What material did you use and where did your get it?
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post #19009 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 01:07 PM
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Very nice. What material did you use and where did your get it?
Thanks.

I used Roxul AFB (3") for the insulation, and black symphony, broadcloth (very breathable) from Jo-Ann Fabrics (all on sale). I wanted to go with 4" AFB, but I only needed 2 more batts to go that route, so I couldn't justify the leftover 4 batts for the added $60. The rear doors have 6" each. I ordered the AFB from Cyber Bridge Marine, but had to drive to Richmond to pick it up, which was much cheaper than having it shipped.
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post #19010 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 02:02 PM
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I recently auditioned dual V1500’s, dual XS30SE’s and just auditioned the dual S3000i’s.

I am by no means experienced with REW or any measurements or graphs. I am only going by listening which is a bit of a challenge in my converted attic to bedroom which is approx. 20 x 14 x 8 with a dormer in front and back. I have to say that I am totally satisfied and blown away with the S3000i’s and they are a keeper. They sound fantastic! My split is 50/50 to both Music and Home Theater and I am running Audessey from my Denon X5200W. I dialed them in at -10 and I like to run 6 hot.

Tom has been very helpful during this process and customer service is second to none.
I highly recommend PSA products and I look forward to years of enjoyment.
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post #19011 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 02:06 PM
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I recently auditioned dual V1500’s, dual XS30SE’s and just auditioned the dual S3000i’s.

I am by no means experienced with REW or any measurements or graphs. I am only going by listening which is a bit of a challenge in my converted attic to bedroom which is approx. 20 x 14 x 8 with a dormer in front and back. I have to say that I am totally satisfied and blown away with the S3000i’s and they are a keeper. They sound fantastic! My split is 50/50 to both Music and Home Theater and I am running Audessey from my Denon X5200W. I dialed them in at -10 and I like to run 6 hot.

Tom has been very helpful during this process and customer service is second to none.
I highly recommend PSA products and I look forward to years of enjoyment.
Wow, three sets of subs demo'd! How would you compare the XS30's to the S3000i's?
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post #19012 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 02:13 PM
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Wow, three sets of subs demo'd! How would you compare the XS30's to the S3000i's?
The XS30SE's sounded great - After hearing all of the positive reviews regarding the S3000i's I had to try them out and so glad I did - You cannot go wrong with either one!
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post #19013 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 06:23 PM
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The XS30SE's sounded great - After hearing all of the positive reviews regarding the S3000i's I had to try them out and so glad I did - You cannot go wrong with either one!

After getting a single S3000i set up pretty well in the same location as my XS30 (non SE), I completely agree with you!! Music is clean, tight, plenty of impact. After watching only one movie so far all I can say is Holy Crap!!

The S3000i outperforms my old XS30 like it was a single 12". We watched Interstellar at -12 MV and the sub running 2 hot-The XS30 would shake the coffee table and floor a bit, but with the S3000i it felt like I had butt kickers in the sofa, at times feeling pressure in my ears and on the next morning I was checking the outside siding to see if anything fell of the house!! Oh and I now have some rattling to take care of that was never there before. This is all with one and not even trying the second yet. PSA has the real deal for sure with this unit !!
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post #19014 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 07:57 PM
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After getting a single S3000i set up pretty well in the same location as my XS30 (non SE), I completely agree with you!! Music is clean, tight, plenty of impact. After watching only one movie so far all I can say is Holy Crap!!

The S3000i outperforms my old XS30 like it was a single 12". We watched Interstellar at -12 MV and the sub running 2 hot-The XS30 would shake the coffee table and floor a bit, but with the S3000i it felt like I had butt kickers in the sofa, at times feeling pressure in my ears and on the next morning I was checking the outside siding to see if anything fell of the house!! Oh and I now have some rattling to take care of that was never there before. This is all with one and not even trying the second yet. PSA has the real deal for sure with this unit !!
I really do not like these types of posts. Now I have the urge to upgrade.
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post #19015 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post
I spent the last week building acoustic panels for my entertainment room. I really wasn't sure what to expect. Would this be so subtle that I would convince myself I was hearing a difference when there actually wasn't one, or would it put a smile on my face. Well, it put a huge smile on my face. I'm not going to use a bunch of superlatives to describe the difference, but the clarity of everything is so much better. Even my wife, who never seems to notice when I upgrade my room, said it sounded clearer. There is a very noticeable difference coming from the center channel, and a crispness coming from every speaker.
Very cool, exactly the effects I got after placing my panels, with similar decrease in the taming of the sub and leveling of the other channels by the EQ.

Question for you, as I see you did place corner bass traps/tritraps, what are your towers, can't recognize them but they look like Def Techs , are these bipolar or front firing. My worry about the trip-traps in the corner is that hey might deaden up the bipolar driver array and decrease the feel of bigger soundstage that my 7001's have.

Change is the only constant.

My HT: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post32691273
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post #19016 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 08:40 PM
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I really do not like these types of posts. Now I have the urge to upgrade.
Do it


Do it


Do it



Do it
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post #19017 of 19303 Old 05-04-2015, 10:13 PM
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We watched Interstellar at -12 MV and the sub running 2 hot
You are brave! It was a very awesome movie to watch with duals... although I think I kept close to -20dB MV!

On a side note... anyone know how to make a built in fireplace stop rattling
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You are brave! It was a very awesome movie to watch with duals... although I think I kept close to -20dB MV!

On a side note... anyone know how to make a built in fireplace stop rattling
If you can figure out exactly WHAT is rattling on the fireplace, maybe some of the high temp(i.e. made for fireplaces) silicone if it can be used out of sight.
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post #19019 of 19303 Old 05-05-2015, 03:52 AM
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You are brave! It was a very awesome movie to watch with duals... although I think I kept close to -20dB MV!

On a side note... anyone know how to make a built in fireplace stop rattling
There were times I started reaching for the remote to turn it down a bit, but never did. Overall everything really was balanced in relation to what the director wanted....quiet and loud at appropriate times. At the time the airlock exploded and damaged Endurance, I thought I blew something in the system when complete silence followed

We started this movie at 9:20 PM-luckily I live in a wooded area as midnight was very loud here
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post #19020 of 19303 Old 05-05-2015, 06:25 AM
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Very cool, exactly the effects I got after placing my panels, with similar decrease in the taming of the sub and leveling of the other channels by the EQ.

Question for you, as I see you did place corner bass traps/tritraps, what are your towers, can't recognize them but they look like Def Techs , are these bipolar or front firing. My worry about the trip-traps in the corner is that hey might deaden up the bipolar driver array and decrease the feel of bigger soundstage that my 7001's have.
Yes, bipolar 2002TLs. You bring up an excellent point and one worth experimenting with. Although, I sent pics and equipment details to Bob Payne at GIK and he recommended the Tri-Traps as a part of his plan. Because of the room design in the right corner (and cost), I opted to not go with the solid core and went with the 3" open back. That particular corner gets more venting than I would like, and more venting than the left corner, but my thought was that venting would negate some or most of the possible negative affect they may have on the rear firing of the 2002s. They still sound very bright. But I'm no expert on this stuff, so I could be entirely wrong.
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