Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 643 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19261 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 09:07 AM
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Jesus, that T18 is sick. I missed it. While it is $1000 more potentially, I am going to have to do some thinking...

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post #19262 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 09:12 AM
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Thanks for the replies guys it is helpful to hear everyone's experiences and thoughts on calibrating two subs.

Alan, the two subs have about a 3 foot difference in distance to the MLP. I would assume that's considered enough to make a difference.

I have (kind of) been in the market for a new AVR for the past two years but I keep putting it off because I keep buying PSA products. I knew I would get a lot more out of my money for improving sound quality by buying the PSA 110s over buying a new AVR. But that means I had to put off buying the AVR until I saved up more cash.

The Antimode has caught my attention and it would be half the cost of last year's Denon X4000 that has XT32 on it but if the XT32 filters do a better job on the speakers as well as the subs then perhaps that would be the best approach.

Brian's recent conversion to DIRAC has intrigued me but I guess that would improve the overall SQ but still put me in the same position of figuring out how to calibrate dual subs.

Much to consider, still need to save up more cash. But let me thank you all for your input. It's great being part of this forum, I know I can always count on you guys for good advice.
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post #19263 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I know that nobody really knows the numbers yet (besides Tom), but does anyone think that dual XV36s would be an upgrade from dual T-18s?


I know....it's a sickness...I can't help it.
LOL, Alan it is a sickness… you are right. But it's a FUN sickness.
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post #19264 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Thanks for the replies guys it is helpful to hear everyone's experiences and thoughts on calibrating two subs.

Alan, the two subs have about a 3 foot difference in distance to the MLP. I would assume that's considered enough to make a difference.

I have (kind of) been in the market for a new AVR for the past two years but I keep putting it off because I keep buying PSA products. I knew I would get a lot more out of my money for improving sound quality by buying the PSA 110s over buying a new AVR. But that means I had to put off buying the AVR until I saved up more cash.

The Antimode has caught my attention and it would be half the cost of last year's Denon X4000 that has XT32 on it but if the XT32 filters do a better job on the speakers as well as the subs then perhaps that would be the best approach.

Brian's recent conversion to DIRAC has intrigued me but I guess that would improve the overall SQ but still put me in the same position of figuring out how to calibrate dual subs.

Much to consider, still need to save up more cash. But let me thank you all for your input. It's great being part of this forum, I know I can always count on you guys for good advice.
Note...MY issue with Dirac and multi subs is ONLY cause my third is nearfield...when I use dirac with the two upfront (not equidistant btw) the response is FANTASTIC...its the third sub that the issue arises...and I am fixing it with a 100$ minidsp

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post #19265 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I know that nobody really knows the numbers yet (besides Tom), but does anyone think that dual XV36s would be an upgrade from dual T-18s?


I know....it's a sickness...I can't help it.
Why not move your T-18s up front and add a pair of S3000i's in back.
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post #19266 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I know that nobody really knows the numbers yet (besides Tom), but does anyone think that dual XV36s would be an upgrade from dual T-18s?
I think it probably depends on what you mean by "upgrade." Depending on your room size, it could go either way, I'm guessing. That said, I'd expect the answer is no. I'm guessing that the V3600 will fill a role of a "top-end" ported option similar to the T-18 is a "top-end" sealed sub.

If I had to guess, you remove a driver, reduce the amp power a bit, and add a port. Then you pay less than the $3k and you get similar ULF performance down near the port tune. If all goes to plan, I see the V3600 as competing in the same space as the JTR Captivator 1400--likely in both price and performance.

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post #19267 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Thanks for the replies guys it is helpful to hear everyone's experiences and thoughts on calibrating two subs.

Alan, the two subs have about a 3 foot difference in distance to the MLP. I would assume that's considered enough to make a difference.

I have (kind of) been in the market for a new AVR for the past two years but I keep putting it off because I keep buying PSA products. I knew I would get a lot more out of my money for improving sound quality by buying the PSA 110s over buying a new AVR. But that means I had to put off buying the AVR until I saved up more cash.

The Antimode has caught my attention and it would be half the cost of last year's Denon X4000 that has XT32 on it but if the XT32 filters do a better job on the speakers as well as the subs then perhaps that would be the best approach.

Brian's recent conversion to DIRAC has intrigued me but I guess that would improve the overall SQ but still put me in the same position of figuring out how to calibrate dual subs.

Much to consider, still need to save up more cash. But let me thank you all for your input. It's great being part of this forum, I know I can always count on you guys for good advice.
Hop: If you are not going the route of Atmos, DTS:X then I would grab this reciever http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR301.../dp/B008J834YY, it would have everything you would need.


Or: http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR101...rds=Onkyo+1010
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post #19268 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 02:44 PM
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Why not move your T-18s up front and add a pair of S3000i's in back.
Now there's a good idea!




Not like I hadn't already thought about it.



But seriously, I really don't need any more subwoofage....I worry about the house sometimes as it is.
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post #19269 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Alan, the two subs have about a 3 foot difference in distance to the MLP. I would assume that's considered enough to make a difference.
Mine have about a 1.5' discrepancy to the MLP (depending on which way I lean in my recliner that can be as little as 6" or as much as 2.5') and I run both subs off of one sub out on my XT32 SubEQ HT AVR (4520).


I know, I know....it's considered heresy to have SubEQ HT and not use it....but I get better results with both subs on one sub out, and I can prove it with measurements.
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post #19270 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 03:17 PM
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Here is Dirac and all three Subs time aligned. I still have to rerun Dirac. But this is head and shoulders above where I was without time aligning them as one
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post #19271 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 03:20 PM
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^^^

Hmmm....~8db down at 55hz, FIX THAT NOW!!!




Seriously, lookin' good Brian! How's it sound??
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post #19272 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 03:22 PM
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^^^

Hmmm....~8db down at 55hz, FIX THAT NOW!!!




Seriously, lookin' good Brian! How's it sound??
Lol again might be lack of re running Dirac coupled with mic placement. I will do that tonight. I have to go supervise a baseball game at 7.

But thanks! Havnt had a chance to listen so...
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post #19273 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 03:26 PM
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Hey hop,

I'm a proud new owner of dual v1500 and I just got in one of the 8033 and one dualcore from tom v and crew. These v1500 are pretty amazing so far I have to say.

I ran the 8033 last night on a single svs pb10 setup I have and it was about as easy of a cal as possible. Very quick and painless and took around 10 min from unboxing to calibrated. I measured before and after and also with audyssey xt engaged after calibrating in the 8033. Overall it did a pretty decent job taming some larger peaks and trying to flatten out the response but I haven't had time to really listen to it critically after the cal. Will try to post up some graphs when I get back to that PC.

For the dual core I'm very excited to try it out w the v1500's and will post my experience and the before and after results once I have time to get it all setup and running this weekend. This thing has a lot of configurability and really has a lot of bells and whistles to play with.

So far the antimode is definitely on the pricey side but it is very plug and play setup and results appear to be similar to the higher end audyssey. Some of the minidsp/dirac type solutions have more configurability but require a lot more hands on work. Which is a pro or a con depending on each individual user.

I was excited to be able to get an off board solution so I'm not locked into an avr solution. Especially with xt32 seeming to only be in the more higher end avr's moving forward instead of trickling down to mid tier as I had expected.

Will update the thread or create a separate one over the weekend with some results and impressions.
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post #19274 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 03:55 PM
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I have a question on DIRAC. If you don't go the route of buying the pricey Emotiva XMC-1 how else does one get it and introduce it to the system?
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post #19275 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I have a question on DIRAC. If you don't go the route of buying the pricey Emotiva XMC-1 how else does one get it and introduce it to the system?
Possibly this?

http://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88a

But this requires pre/pro and amp and it looks like its 1 sub out.

Frankly, one of the Audyssey units Mike Butny pointed out and an antimode (even a 2.0 at current special pricing) would be cheaper than the XMC-1 alone at 2500.00. Unless you have coupons to reduce pricing.

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post #19276 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I know that nobody really knows the numbers yet (besides Tom), but does anyone think that dual XV36s would be an upgrade from dual T-18s?


I know....it's a sickness...I can't help it.

It's pure speculation on my point, but if the XV36s had an advantage on the T-18s, it would be around the port tune, which is very possible. I would imagine everywhere else, the T-18s would be equal or better. @Tom Vodhanel will have to verify my speculation.
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post #19277 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
Possibly this?

http://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88a

But this requires pre/pro and amp and it looks like its 1 sub out.

Frankly, one of the Audyssey units and an antimode (even a 2.0 at current special pricing) would be cheaper than the XMC-1 alone at 2500.00. Unless you have coupons to reduce pricing.
True. But audyssey doesn't come close to the sound quality of Dirac.
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post #19278 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 04:23 PM
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I know....it's a sickness...I can't help it.
2 years ago, I was happy with my Boston Acoustic PV600 10" ported sub with a 150 watt amp. Then I came here
There is not much that is more addictive than good bass.
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post #19279 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 04:26 PM
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True. But audyssey doesn't come close to the sound quality of Dirac.
Understood....and my wallet/cc are glad I havent heard Dirac.....
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post #19280 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 05:04 PM
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2 years ago, I was happy with my Boston Acoustic PV600 10" ported sub with a 150 watt amp. Then I came here
There is not much that is more addictive than good bass.
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Understood....and my wallet/cc are glad I havent heard Dirac.....
Both statements are sooooo true!

Dang it Brian…. Now you have me thinking about DIRAC.

These threads are expensive.
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post #19281 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 06:08 PM
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2 years ago, I was happy with my Boston Acoustic PV600 10" ported sub with a 150 watt amp. Then I came here
There is not much that is more addictive than good bass.
So true! I went nearly 20 years thinking I didn't need a subwoofer for my speakers, until I found AVS! Now I'm about 10 weeks away from buying a Second sub.

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post #19282 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 06:14 PM
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True. But audyssey doesn't come close to the sound quality of Dirac.
Brian: I believe the difference that you are hearing is from going from a Denon ( not sure on the model ) $1500ish receiver and upgrading to a $2500 Preamp/Processor, the XMC-1 has better components inside and WILL sound better. I was running a 3K Classe SSP 30 MKII AV Preamplifier/Processor ( legacy DD and DTS audio ) that did not have any type of room correction and it did not support lossless audio, so I decided to purchase an Onkyo 818 at a great price. The Onkyo 818 came loaded with features, supported all the lossless codecs at that time and included XT32, but when I compared the sound quality especially in 2-channel music it was no contest, the Classe blows the Onkyo with XT32 away. I will say I liked what XT32 did for movies, I sold my Classe and kept the 818 with plans on purchasing a Marantz 8802 in the future. Please see below for some good info between Audyssey XT32 vs Dirac Live.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...omparison.html
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post #19283 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 06:20 PM
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How's this look?
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post #19284 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 06:38 PM
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how's this look?
120db at 8hz!!!!!!! VERY Impressive!!!!!!!

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post #19285 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 07:33 PM
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I think it probably depends on what you mean by "upgrade." Depending on your room size, it could go either way, I'm guessing. That said, I'd expect the answer is no. I'm guessing that the V3600 will fill a role of a "top-end" ported option similar to the T-18 is a "top-end" sealed sub.

If I had to guess, you remove a driver, reduce the amp power a bit, and add a port. Then you pay less than the $3k and you get similar ULF performance down near the port tune. If all goes to plan, I see the V3600 as competing in the same space as the JTR Captivator 1400--likely in both price and performance.

It's a good time to be a bass head!
You missed a important part and that is enclosure volume... Less power and displacement is needed with larger cabs. So imo I think the 3600 will have the advantage in the 16-30hz and the T-18 will have a slight edge in the 40-80hz.
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post #19286 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 07:36 PM
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120db at 8hz!!!!!!! VERY Impressive!!!!!!!
3 XS30's will not do 120db @ 8hz unless were talking a closet sized space. Something is amiss in the calibration...

The response looks great tho!!

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post #19287 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 07:37 PM
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True. But audyssey doesn't come close to the sound quality of Dirac.
:rollseyes

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post #19288 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 07:43 PM
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:rollseyes
Why the eye roll? I'm serious. It's so good. I got rid of atmos for it.
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post #19289 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 07:45 PM
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Why the eye roll? I'm serious. It's so good. I got rid of atmos for it.
Sorry, Ive read more than one comparo of XT32 vs Dirac, as well as XT32 vs other alternatives. I just don't buy your statement.

I have a feeling something else had influence in one sounding so much better than the other. Every room and every setup behaves differently.

Saying Audyssey (no version type) doesnt come close to Dirac is, well, amusing.

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post #19290 of 20445 Old 05-20-2015, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
3 XS30's will not do 120db @ 8hz unless were talking a closet sized space. Something is amiss in the calibration...
Exactly, I was going to say that but decided not to. Perhaps he used the 'add offset to data' in REW?
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