Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 646 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19351 of 21512 Old 05-23-2015, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sinisanav View Post
C'mon, its doable!

I have 106" screen 8 ft away from my seat, just enough to see side to side like in IMAX
I have seen your HT and its an awesome space that I would love to have! But mine is also the living room and there needs to be SOME balance, although I like the balance tipped one way and others like it another. Thankfully we both love the final outcome so I am given more leeway than others might
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post #19352 of 21512 Old 05-23-2015, 06:29 PM
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I'll never ask the question to compare PSA to RA again... never thought it would get so darn heated.

Since both PSA and RA offer that 30 day thing... I thought someone would have grabbed equivalents to see which one they like more.
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post #19353 of 21512 Old 05-23-2015, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I'll never ask the question to compare PSA to RA again... never thought it would get so darn heated.

Since both PSA and RA offer that 30 day thing... I thought someone would have grabbed equivalents to see which one they like more.
The huge difference between the two is free return shipping on the PSA. When you have to pay to ship back a 100lb subwoofer that isn't cutting it for you it gets very expensive.
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post #19354 of 21512 Old 05-23-2015, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I'll never ask the question to compare PSA to RA again... never thought it would get so darn heated.

Since both PSA and RA offer that 30 day thing... I thought someone would have grabbed equivalents to see which one they like more.
As a consumer you have every right to ask any question you want about a product or company. If you want to do much of aside by side comparison of brands, you can always start your own thread which a lot of people will do. That way you are not stepping on any toes in a dedicated thread.


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post #19355 of 21512 Old 05-23-2015, 10:35 PM
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^^^ Some great points by both. Unfortunate that RA doesn't offer free return shipping. Also, on RA's web page I would like to see more than just one photo of the sub prior to purchase (for example, a shot with the grill/cover would be nice). With that said, PSA really did a great job with their web page in detailing each sub with thorough specs and graphs. The photos are sufficient as well. Having owned my third PSA sub now, I can say that I am impressed with the quality of the material/finish as well as the amount of time and dedication Tom has given in answering each question. He has even followed up on inquiries which I think is rather impressive considering the volume of customers and inquires he gets regularly.

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post #19356 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 05:12 AM
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One Canadian's opinion:

It's been a while since I purchased my subs, but I wanted to come on here and give a quick public service announcement (PSA - get it?) on how terrific both the product is, and the service was.

I went from one SVS PB-12 Plus DSP to two PSA XS30se's and couldn't be happier with the purchase (believe me, a one for one swap alone would've been a serious upgrade). I don't have any measurements or data points to provide (maybe one day), but I can honestly say the quality of the bass - specifically the total lack of distortion at any humane volume level - is truly astonishing. My neighbours hate me, but that's a small price to pay

You should be proud of your product Tom; your hard work has paid off. I'd buy from you again in a heartbeat.

Many thanks.

Steve
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post #19357 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Steveo1717 View Post
One Canadian's opinion:

It's been a while since I purchased my subs, but I wanted to come on here and give a quick public service announcement (PSA - get it?) on how terrific both the product is, and the service was.

I went from one SVS PB-12 Plus DSP to two PSA XS30se's and couldn't be happier with the purchase (believe me, a one for one swap alone would've been a serious upgrade). I don't have any measurements or data points to provide (maybe one day), but I can honestly say the quality of the bass - specifically the total lack of distortion at any humane volume level - is truly astonishing. My neighbours hate me, but that's a small price to pay

You should be proud of your product Tom; your hard work has paid off. I'd buy from you again in a heartbeat.

Many thanks.

Steve

Haha....glad to hear you're enjoying the new subs. I know you heard my last sub and recommend Matt purchase it....I must agree with everything you said above and while I only have a single XS30se, it puts a smile on my face each time I fire it up.

Take care Steve, if ever you're visiting friends up this way...feel free to drop in.

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post #19358 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I'll never ask the question to compare PSA to RA again... never thought it would get so darn heated.

Since both PSA and RA offer that 30 day thing... I thought someone would have grabbed equivalents to see which one they like more.
You know the old saying about "never" or "always". They are far to definitive.

IMO, comparison and competition are good things to have and is part of what these forums are about. If things get heated, that sometimes results in new development of products down the road.

YMMV
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post #19359 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Steveo1717 View Post
One Canadian's opinion:

It's been a while since I purchased my subs, but I wanted to come on here and give a quick public service announcement (PSA - get it?) on how terrific both the product is, and the service was.

I went from one SVS PB-12 Plus DSP to two PSA XS30se's and couldn't be happier with the purchase (believe me, a one for one swap alone would've been a serious upgrade). I don't have any measurements or data points to provide (maybe one day), but I can honestly say the quality of the bass - specifically the total lack of distortion at any humane volume level - is truly astonishing. My neighbours hate me, but that's a small price to pay

You should be proud of your product Tom; your hard work has paid off. I'd buy from you again in a heartbeat.

Many thanks.

Steve
Great to hear since the PB12-Plus was the first sub I was seriously considering buying. I thought I HAD to get a gloss black sub to match my speakers due to WAF. However, when I actually talked to my wife about it (not to mention show her the price difference) she was fine going with the standard finish XS30se. I love it and will have all the bass I ever need once I get a second one.
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post #19360 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 06:44 AM
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I have always really liked the textured PSA finish. I much prefer it to any kind of vinyl wrap. Nothing quite like a beautiful wood veneer though for subs going into non-dedicated theaters. Dual S3000i's in espresso would be gorgeous.
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post #19361 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I'll never ask the question to compare PSA to RA again... never thought it would get so darn heated.

Since both PSA and RA offer that 30 day thing... I thought someone would have grabbed equivalents to see which one they like more.
Mentioning/comparing other products is no big deal. I bring up Submersives all the time in chat/email/phone...even in this thread. The reason I'm comfortable recommending them is they are clearly a well engineered system with excellent AND consistent build quality.

One of the issues (I have personally) is in certain "official" threads you'll find an abundance of design misinformation posted. Folks take this as gospel and simply start parroting all of this misinformation. I have seen others banned from these threads in the past when they tried to correct some of this misinformation. Really cringe worthy. That type of BS won't get a free pass here.


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post #19362 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 07:13 AM
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I have always really liked the textured PSA finish. I much prefer it to any kind of vinyl wrap. Nothing quite like a beautiful wood veneer though for subs going into non-dedicated theaters. Dual S3000i's in espresso would be gorgeous.
They do look pretty!

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post #19363 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 10:33 AM
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I'll never ask the question to compare PSA to RA again... never thought it would get so darn heated.
Are you kidding me? Don't say that… this is the most interesting this thread has been in weeks! It's always a great thread but over the past 48 hours it's been downright riveting. I had to work yesterday and missed all sorts of fun. So please, keep asking questions.
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post #19364 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 10:49 AM
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Back to the reguar program.....

I am still trying to keep the 2 S3000i in play here as after hearing them for a short period, I now understand what you guys say about it sounding better, not louder. This being said, I am still trying to find a way to make the duals work in my 7ft wide front stage without it looking overly ominous and overbearing fr the living room.

I have attached some photos that show the layout of the room and the current placement of the single 3000i. This placement is one of the best response locations but most likely wont be in play for duals. The room is 11.5' wide x 14 ' deep and 7.5' tall. Here is what I emailed Tom yesterday morning and we discussed last night:

**Dual S3000i up front with MT110's instead of 210's-how much would I lose going to the 110's and will they work with a 210 as center? Keep in mind that I had Klipsch Forte before the 210's, but that may or may not play a role here as the S3000i duals may very well trump the change of 210 to 110?

**Keep the 210's and the S3000i where it is but maybe a S1500 as a 2nd sub next to the sectional next to the sectional by the Right Main. I tried an S3000i there but it doesnt look good there either. The smaller S1500 might work.

**Crazy thought-single S3000i where it is and 2 S1500 as stands for 2 110's-I might be looking for another girlfriend there . Or at least would cost me a kitchen upgrade.

**Ditch the ICE amps and go with 2 XV15se and 110's on top of them-but will the XV15se be able to take up the difference of the 210 to 110 change?

**Go with the single S3000i and the 210's as this room just may not be able to support 2 3000i

Overall going back from the S3000i is pretty much out of the question. Had I not heard this unit, it may be a different story, but that box is open and cant be closed.

After talking with Tom, I am leaning toward the duals up front with 110's replacing the 210 L/R and keeping the 210 center. This weekend I hope to get the subs re-positioned and dialed in a bit to see what they are like for a few days. If it works and gets past the overbearing visual, I will go forward with trying the 110's-Tom didnt think there would be an audible night and day difference-if any at all at realistic listening levels.

There is another thought of replacing the sectional with a sofa and using the 2 3000i as end tables near field.

Overall, the single S3000i placed where it is right now is pretty amazing and that may option very well be the final outcome.
Based on everything Tom has explained to me I don't think you will lose very much going from the 210s to the 110s. I know my 110s sound incredible and I asked Tom if the 210s would provide more mid-bass punch than the 110s and he said there wouldn't be much difference (at least at my listening levels).
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post #19365 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 11:52 AM
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Based on everything Tom has explained to me I don't think you will lose very much going from the 210s to the 110s. I know my 110s sound incredible and I asked Tom if the 210s would provide more mid-bass punch than the 110s and he said there wouldn't be much difference (at least at my listening levels).
Hop I'm really jealous of your 110's lol! I bet it sounds amazing couple with your sub(s). I have more sub capability than I can use now, which highlights the weak link in my system....my mains and AVR. I have arrived at the opinion that throwing more power at speakers becomes exponentially more expensive with only marginal improvements, so I definitely think high efficiency speakers are the way to go. Speaker upgrades are completely out of the question for me anytime soon though. However, I should have surrounds sometime in August. Then I can start planning my main speaker upgrade if I even decide to. I am still pretty happy with what I have for my listening levels. I also realize that you(we) don't realize what we are missing sometimes...I'm sure the MT-110's would be a big improvement even at my normal volumes.
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post #19366 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 12:30 PM
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Now there's a good idea!




Not like I hadn't already thought about it.



But seriously, I really don't need any more subwoofage....I worry about the house sometimes as it is.
I don't believe you Alan, you say I don't need more wooferage and there you go asking about V3600.
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post #19367 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 12:48 PM
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Really at the end of the day PSA, JTR and Reaction Audio are all using the same 700watt & 1400watt amp modules from SpeakerPower.
Joe, if they are all using the same amp modules why is RA's warranty only 2 years on electronics and not 5 years like PSA, I'm serious
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post #19368 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 01:51 PM
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Hop I'm really jealous of your 110's lol! I bet it sounds amazing couple with your sub(s). I have more sub capability than I can use now, which highlights the weak link in my system....my mains and AVR. I have arrived at the opinion that throwing more power at speakers becomes exponentially more expensive with only marginal improvements, so I definitely think high efficiency speakers are the way to go. Speaker upgrades are completely out of the question for me anytime soon though. However, I should have surrounds sometime in August. Then I can start planning my main speaker upgrade if I even decide to. I am still pretty happy with what I have for my listening levels. I also realize that you(we) don't realize what we are missing sometimes...I'm sure the MT-110's would be a big improvement even at my normal volumes.
Bear you're right about not knowing what we are missing until we hear it. Brian and Jeff and some of the other guys kept talking about their PSA speakers and just how good they were and I resisted as long as I could but finally I just had to cave in and try them out. Once I heard them I suddenly realized what I had been missing and I knew within about five minutes I wasn't sending them back.

So my advice to anyone thinking about the 30 day demo of the 210s or the 110s is go ahead and throw out the boxes because you won't be sending the speakers back.

Bear, on a different note, I've been following your build thread and I have to say you've done a great job on your DIY projects and I can't imagine the bass you must have right now. You must be swimming in Bass Bliss.
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post #19369 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 01:51 PM
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Joe, if they are all using the same amp modules why is RA's warranty only 2 years on electronics and not 5 years like PSA, I'm serious
I don't know why, probably the same reason why JTR only offers two years on the amps also. I would imagine its more of a company decision.


How long does SpeakerPower warranty the amps for, one year?

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post #19370 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 02:21 PM
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I don't know why, probably the same reason why JTR only offers two years on the amps also. I would imagine its more of a company decision.


How long does SpeakerPower warranty the amps for, one year?
I don't know the answer to that question, but it's like buying a new car and knowing that you're covered from bumper to bumper, that's why I bought a new KIA, I don't have to worry that the transmission will break down or the engine that makes my car run which gives me peace of mind. I don't think it's a matter what SpeakerPower's warranty is, I just know what PSA's is.
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post #19371 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 02:30 PM
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I don't know the answer to that question, but it's like buying a new car and knowing that you're covered from bumper to bumper, that's why I bought a new KIA, I don't have to worry that the transmission will break down or the engine that makes my car run which gives me peace of mind. I don't think it's a matter what SpeakerPower's warranty is, I just know what PSA's is.
I guess you could use the car analogy, but I would suspect that JTR, RA and PSA would have fairly low failure rates either way. I'm sure JTR and RA would be willing to work with a customer if an amp failed outside of the warranty period. And kudos to PSA for offer the five year warranty, until recently they were the only ones also offer a five year warranty on the SpeakerPower torpedo amps. Now Mark Seaton has bumped up his warranty on the SP amps too, again I think he said there's been very low failure rates so that's why he bumped up his warranty.
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post #19372 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 02:33 PM
 
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Having a 5 year warranty is nice. I had one of my SVS amps on one of my PB13 Ultras die between year 3 and 4, so getting it replaced made me glad I choose them over Epik or ED (big rivals at the time that have since gone out of business). My only gripe was that I had to pay for it first and then got a refund once I sent in the defective unit. I felt that they should have taken my credit card info and then charged me if the replacement didn't arrive with a certain time frame i.e. 2 weeks or 30 days. A $400 amp doesn't impact my finances but there are many that may not have $400 to pay upfront, so I thought SVS should have taken that into consideration. Minor gripe from an otherwise great buying/ownership experience.
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post #19373 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 02:47 PM
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Yeah, the only subs I ever truly considered were from PSA and SVS and it was because they offered the 5 year warranty and free shipping (which I realize isn't really free but it still makes me feel better).
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post #19374 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Based on everything Tom has explained to me I don't think you will lose very much going from the 210s to the 110s. I know my 110s sound incredible and I asked Tom if the 210s would provide more mid-bass punch than the 110s and he said there wouldn't be much difference (at least at my listening levels).
I am really considering dropping to the 110's, possibly for all 3 up front as it would clean up the visual quite a bit. My reasoning for the 210's originally was due to coming from Klipsch Forte's and really bot being in tune with the fact that a quality sealed sub can negate the need of large floor standing mains. I am now a believer.

Tomorrow I will be putting the 2 s3000i up front with the 210's on them and dial them in for a week or so. Durng this time i want to re watch some movies that I have already watched with the single s3000i for the comparison. Interstellar, Act of Valor and WOTW. If I can fit in all three, great but interstellar I think will be a must to watch again.

As I type this, I have Dire Straits Bothers in Arms cd playing. 2.0 PCM with only bass management and ARC, no multi speaker modes- Right now Your Latest Trick is playing and I am still amazed at the sound stage produced by the 2 MTM's. that are only 5.5 feet apart (center to center)..and the single s3000i is sounding great too.
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post #19375 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 04:23 PM
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I don't know the answer to that question, but it's like buying a new car and knowing that you're covered from bumper to bumper, that's why I bought a new KIA, I don't have to worry that the transmission will break down or the engine that makes my car run which gives me peace of mind. I don't think it's a matter what SpeakerPower's warranty is, I just know what PSA's is.
I know when I was in the market for a new sub as I wanted to replace my Mirage BPS400, I had the Mirage for about 14 years and I never had any issue with it. I sold the Mirage to my brother and its still pounding. Well when I did my research on subs I was looking at 2 company's, PSA and Rythmik. I reached out to a few members that owned Rythmik and PSA and of course they recommended the product that they owned. I then contacted both company's and I ask a few questions, I was nervous of the idea of buying from an ID company because I have dealt with the local Tweeter and Sound and Vision stores that were by my house and I felt very comfortable from buying from them. I was blown away with dealing with Tom but what REALLY put me as ease and the deciding factor was that PSA offers a 5 year warranty across the board.
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Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000 Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Onkyo 818 receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Height Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, Dual PSA XS30se subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #19376 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 05:18 PM
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I was blown away with dealing with Tom but what REALLY put me as ease and the deciding factor was that PSA offers a 5 year warranty across the board.
This is important. However, even more important imo is the credibility that comes along with Tom and Jim's reputation having come from SVS, and the apparent stability of the company. Which means they will be around 3-5+ years from now to actually honor the warranty. I think plenty of Epic owners were left holding the bag in that regard.

Along with all of this is the stellar service that PSA offers to every single customer. I have owned a couple of different PSA products, and they performed amazingly for their price. The build quality was impeccable, and Tom and Jim went out of their way on more than one occasion when I needed help. All these things point to a company that should have a long term presence. And they have improved every step of the way. Improved product lead times. Improved web site. Improvements and upgrades to their product line. In my opinion, PSA has established themselves as the premier ID company in many ways. Supplanting SVS who has become more of a large, mainstream company.
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post #19377 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 06:03 PM
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They do look pretty!

Tom V.
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Nice! From the pictures I've seen, I really like the American Cherry. When will the speakers be offered in veneers?

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, DUAL PSA XS30SE's
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post #19378 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 06:15 PM
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This is important. However, even more important imo is the credibility that comes along with Tom and Jim's reputation having come from SVS, and the apparent stability of the company. Which means they will be around 3-5+ years from now to actually honor the warranty. I think plenty of Epic owners were left holding the bag in that regard.

Along with all of this is the stellar service that PSA offers to every single customer. I have owned a couple of different PSA products, and they performed amazingly for their price. The build quality was impeccable, and Tom and Jim went out of their way on more than one occasion when I needed help. All these things point to a company that should have a long term presence. And they have improved every step of the way. Improved product lead times. Improved web site. Improvements and upgrades to their product line. In my opinion, PSA has established themselves as the premier ID company in many ways. Supplanting SVS who has become more of a large, mainstream company.
I agree 100% with what you wrote but I was someone who knew nothing about Tom and Jim, as I did my research on PSA I learned that Tom was 1 of the original owners of SVS which it did ease my mind as this was not his first go around running a business. I did think about what happens if I spend 1K + on a sub and then the company goes under and then I'm SOL, all of this did cross my mind. The bottom line is as a future customer who new very little about PSA and Tom and Jim, I gave them a shot because I felt safe after chatting with Tom and the 5 year warranty. I do think its easier for future PSA costumers to feel safe to purchased products from PSA because their product line has expanded, it shows future buyers that PSA is going to be around for a long time.
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Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000 Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Onkyo 818 receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Height Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, Dual PSA XS30se subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.

Last edited by Mike Butny; 05-24-2015 at 08:55 PM.
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post #19379 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 06:16 PM
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I am really considering dropping to the 110's, possibly for all 3 up front as it would clean up the visual quite a bit. My reasoning for the 210's originally was due to coming from Klipsch Forte's and really bot being in tune with the fact that a quality sealed sub can negate the need of large floor standing mains. I am now a believer.

Tomorrow I will be putting the 2 s3000i up front with the 210's on them and dial them in for a week or so. Durng this time i want to re watch some movies that I have already watched with the single s3000i for the comparison. Interstellar, Act of Valor and WOTW. If I can fit in all three, great but interstellar I think will be a must to watch again.

As I type this, I have Dire Straits Bothers in Arms cd playing. 2.0 PCM with only bass management and ARC, no multi speaker modes- Right now Your Latest Trick is playing and I am still amazed at the sound stage produced by the 2 MTM's. that are only 5.5 feet apart (center to center)..and the single s3000i is sounding great too.
I know what you mean, the 110s in stereo creates an incredible sound stage, I'm still blown away by the imaging. I also love their mid-bass punch.
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post #19380 of 21512 Old 05-24-2015, 06:52 PM
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One Canadian's opinion:

It's been a while since I purchased my subs, but I wanted to come on here and give a quick public service announcement (PSA - get it?) on how terrific both the product is, and the service was.

I went from one SVS PB-12 Plus DSP to two PSA XS30se's and couldn't be happier with the purchase (believe me, a one for one swap alone would've been a serious upgrade). I don't have any measurements or data points to provide (maybe one day), but I can honestly say the quality of the bass - specifically the total lack of distortion at any humane volume level - is truly astonishing. My neighbours hate me, but that's a small price to pay

You should be proud of your product Tom; your hard work has paid off. I'd buy from you again in a heartbeat.

Many thanks.

Steve
That is a really nice set-up you have! Looks compact and comfortable!

Gear: Pioneer VSX-1124-K, NHT Classic Three (L/R), Classic Two (rear) TwoC (center).
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