Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 649 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19441 of 19464 Old Today, 06:35 AM
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I would guess they are going to be close on the low end with a 3db advantage to the V3600 up top.

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post #19442 of 19464 Old Today, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
When comparing subwoofers, look at each frequency because an average wouldn't tell you the whole story. Producing high output on the lowend is the difficult task.
Jeff,

Good point! I'm only going off the numbers that were posted above which have not yet been verified by Josh or anyone else for that matter like the Captivator has.

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post #19443 of 19464 Old Today, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
When comparing subwoofers, look at each frequency because an average wouldn't tell you the whole story. Producing high output on the lowend is the difficult task.
Sometimes these threads remind me of playground talk, "My dad is bigger than your dad." Competition in the ID market is at an all-time high. The consumer is the ultimate winner with fantastic choices and competitive pricing. I remember back when I bought my first sub back in 1995. There were only a handful of options and the were expensive when compared with the price/performance offerings today. In fact, I have to get another sub to replace that 1995 Def Tech. It just died the other day. Can't compain, I got 20 years of daily use out of it in the main TV room.
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post #19444 of 19464 Old Today, 07:00 AM
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I agree. I want more overall output, but less than 25hz is important. With the VTF15, it performs best in 2 ports open especially with low distortion, but below 25hz suffers. When you use 1 port open below 20hz comes up, but it cannot be pushed as hard. I like to run subs a little hot, and I watch movies pretty loud. I think that is why the VTF15mk2 has an upgraded driver and more powerful amp...

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post #19445 of 19464 Old Today, 08:47 AM
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Completed my Tascam DR44 sound demo with the MT-110's assisted by the S1500.


Near-field is the only way the recorder worked without grabbing the sound of the room.

Here is the review reviews.

MT110

V1500 and S1500

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post #19446 of 19464 Old Today, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Jeff,

Good point! I'm only going off the numbers that were posted above which have not yet been verified by Josh or anyone else for that matter like the Captivator has.
I see them more as two subs with similar goals taking slightly different paths. I tend to agree with @basshead81 that they should be in the same ball park with the V3600I pulling away up top. In part because it has an extra driver and the Eminence drivers PSA uses have all been very good especially in the upper bass.

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post #19447 of 19464 Old Today, 09:30 AM
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I took a look at the Eminence website yesterday when I realized they were who PSA uses. They have some pretty pricey 18" drivers.
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post #19448 of 19464 Old Today, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post
It might sway my decision between the PB 13s. I plan to order one of each and see what one I like best, then save for the second one. Bring on the actual pictures Tom!! I wanna see what this beast actually looks like for real...
What about dual V1500s? It seems that a PB 13 Ultra performs similarly to a V1500. The V3600i is in a different league! Dual V1500s would be about the same price as a single PB 13 Ultra.
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post #19449 of 19464 Old Today, 10:08 AM
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I have a question, keeping in mind I have dual VTF15 mark 1's (about 4 db's less CEA vs the MK2). I really like the v3600, but would be trading the benefit of dual 15 spread out for a single sub with dual 18's be the best move, or upgrading to dual V1500's?



I guess when you look at the v3600 numbers vs dual V1500's (assuming 3db boost for duals)

1500--3600
119.7--122.3
127.5--132.3
129.7--136.0
126.8--131.8

The v3600 is still the better choice...

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post #19450 of 19464 Old Today, 10:24 AM
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If it helps, here is a pic of part of the room:




Room is rectangular, but the whole area is a "T". To the left of the speakers (facing them) is another chair and a wall. Wall with display and wall behind our seats (directly in front of display) is about 14 feet. If you note the right of the front right tower, there is another open area. The room bends to the left into the dining room, and to the right into the kitchen. The whole space is about 5400cuft.


Quick sketch and not to scale of course lol

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post #19451 of 19464 Old Today, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I would guess they are going to be close on the low end with a 3db advantage to the V3600 up top.
Here is what I came up with from the averages. Cap 1400 numbers are from DATABASS... Yes. It looks like Cap 1400 would have ~2 dB advantage @ 16 Hz. It's really close from 25 Hz to 40 Hz. V3600 would have 2 ~ 4.5 dB in advantage from 50 Hz and up
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post #19452 of 19464 Old Today, 10:39 AM
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Damn that pre-order price is insane! Not crazy about the real price though Tom said before itd be well under 2k. I was expecting it to be 2k. It'll cost me (a returning SVS customer) $3610 for dual PB 13 Ultras. Duals of these are over 4k. Given how huge it is, the dual 18s, and those numbers Tom posted, it seems like it's the better deal is one can fork over like $700 more.


I am so anxious for people to get their hands on these so we can get some reviews/impressions of them. It might sway my decision between the PB 13s. I plan to order one of each and see what one I like best, then save for the second one. Bring on the actual pictures Tom!! I wanna see what this beast actually looks like for real...
Yeah, the last couple of quotes we got we're much higher than we anticipated---especially the cabinets. But when you consider the build quality and finish its hard to argue with them about cost...although we always do. These are not "industrial" finishes that we liken to pro audio or something we are hesitant to show close up hi-res shots. Our Satin Black gets near universal praise from customers even when placed in well lighted living areas.

svs really isn't a player in the ID *value* market anymore if we prioritize measurable performance. A single V3600 is going to compare well to dual pb13ultras imo with better sound quality too(based on the FR of the last three Ultra reviews that have been published). The ultras have tuning flexibility and finish options that may be important. Just depends on each individual.

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post #19453 of 19464 Old Today, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F12Bwth View Post
Completed my Tascam DR44 sound demo with the MT-110's assisted by the S1500.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uhGIXovcmw

Near-field is the only way the recorder worked without grabbing the sound of the room.

Here is the review review.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejZo_Cvw4KM

Great job, I just saw your videos (all three recent PSA videos) thanks for sharing your experience with us. I also found your WAF speaker video hilarious... and a little sad
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post #19454 of 19464 Old Today, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
When comparing subwoofers, look at each frequency because an average wouldn't tell you the whole story. Producing high output on the lowend is the difficult task.
Looking at all the data on the cap I'd guess the two will sound much more alike than different. IMO you're getting class leading performance either way.

I would hesitate to label any particular performance ability as "easy" or "hard" though. We've seen examples of the "big box, big driver, big amp" mentality with terrific deep bass output----and pi** poor performance in most other metrics.

I think its' more accurate to say---producing high output at all frequencies while maintain a linear FR and measuring well in all the sound quality metrics is the difficult task. The cap14 does really well here.

I would also caution against trying to judge two subwoofers based on a small cross section of a CEA graph or worse yet...a single frequency.

Tom V.
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post #19455 of 19464 Old Today, 01:20 PM
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Order placed
Sweet.
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post #19456 of 19464 Old Today, 01:22 PM
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So who pulled the trigger first on the V3600?
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post #19457 of 19464 Old Today, 02:00 PM
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So who pulled the trigger first on the V3600?
Tom said I was number 6 /7 or either 7/8. We definitely have some lurkers in the midst.
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post #19458 of 19464 Old Today, 02:49 PM
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Our Satin Black gets near universal praise from customers even when placed in well lighted living areas.

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I agree wholeheartedly. The satin black finish is not only very durable but it does have a slight glimmer to it that makes it look less industrial than the online photos suggest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I have a question, keeping in mind I have dual VTF15 mark 1's (about 4 db's less CEA vs the MK2). I really like the v3600, but would be trading the benefit of dual 15 spread out for a single sub with dual 18's be the best move, or upgrading to dual V1500's?
I would always opt for dual (I mean separate) subs rather than one single powerful sub. Dual V1500s would definitely have more output than the VTF15 mark 1's (basing this only off looking at the graphs) but I wonder if such an expensive upgrade would be worth it. Might as well go BIG and get two V3600s!!!

I'm only kidding!
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post #19459 of 19464 Old Today, 04:38 PM
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I do not think 2 V1500's would be a BIG enough upgrade coming from dual MK1's...yes they are more powerful but not worth the effort of selling the MK1's. I vote dual Caps, V3600's, or Echo 18's...in no particular order.
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
What about dual V1500s? It seems that a PB 13 Ultra performs similarly to a V1500. The V3600i is in a different league! Dual V1500s would be about the same price as a single PB 13 Ultra.

To me, the PB 13 Ultra looks so much nicer than a V1500. Its more pleasing to my eye at least, so I wouldn't go V1500 just based on looks. However, going with the V3600i for only a couple hundred more seems like it would be well worth it, even though I still find the PB 13 Ultra to be a better looking sub. The advantage in performance seems to be so much that I'd overlook how it looks. Don't get me wrong. PSA subs don't look bad; I just prefer the SVS' look.

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post #19461 of 19464 Old Today, 05:48 PM
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Tom said I was number 6 /7 or either 7/8. We definitely have some lurkers in the midst.

Please post your impressions with us when you get it! Pictures etc. would be very much appreciated. I would love to see an unboxing video of that beast as well

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post #19462 of 19464 Old Today, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post
To me, the PB 13 Ultra looks so much nicer than a V1500. Its more pleasing to my eye at least, so I wouldn't go V1500 just based on looks. However, going with the V3600i for only a couple hundred more seems like it would be well worth it, even though I still find the PB 13 Ultra to be a better looking sub. The advantage in performance seems to be so much that I'd overlook how it looks. Don't get me wrong. PSA subs don't look bad; I just prefer the SVS' look.
I understand looks might be important to you. Maybe hold off until you see PSA's veneer options. A veneered subwoofer IMO would look much better than a glossy piano black box from SVS.
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post #19463 of 19464 Old Today, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post
To me, the PB 13 Ultra looks so much nicer than a V1500. Its more pleasing to my eye at least, so I wouldn't go V1500 just based on looks. However, going with the V3600i for only a couple hundred more seems like it would be well worth it, even though I still find the PB 13 Ultra to be a better looking sub. The advantage in performance seems to be so much that I'd overlook how it looks. Don't get me wrong. PSA subs don't look bad; I just prefer the SVS' look.
I understand your thinking but personally I never spend anytime looking at my subwoofers so I don't worry about what they look like... all I care about is what they sound like. But I do understand that I may be strange when it comes to not caring about the looks.

Having said that it really doesn't matter because I actually really like the PSA finish. It's so much better looking to me than a vinyl wrap and nice wood finishes cost to much IMO.
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post #19464 of 19464 Old Today, 06:31 PM
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I understand your thinking but personally I never spend anytime looking at my subwoofers so I don't worry about what they look like... all I care about is what they sound like. But I do understand that I may be strange when it comes to not caring about the looks.

Having said that it really doesn't matter because I actually really like the PSA finish. It's so much better looking to me than a vinyl wrap and nice wood finishes cost to much IMO.
I agree with you Hop, I had a Mirage BPS400 sub and it had a piano black top that looked great. I was a little worried looks wise when I order my first XS30SE but I told myself I rather have performance over looks. I actually love the look of PSA subs, they just have that bad ass look like they can take a beating. I was very surprised when I the first one arrived, theses subs definitely look better in person.

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