Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 658 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Not what I am saying. It is not about the time it takes to engineer a new product, it is the result that is all matter.
Okay, well...if you believe that the measurements indicate each product shows similar engineering results...I would disagree strongly.

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Old 06-10-2015, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
So now we're up to...

1)V1800

2)S1800

3)S3600i

Man, no days off this year..


The concern with the S1800 is you are treading into S3000i territory now in terms of size, performance, value, etc. Not sure who would purchase the S1800 who wouldn't jump on the S3000i anyway?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Nah, just add the V1800 and you'll have a very nice, well-rounded product line. It is a fairly big price jump from the $1050 V1500 to the >$2k V3600, so something right in the middle would flesh out the product line nicely on the ported side. Have the V1800 be ~3db more than the V1500 across the FR, maybe tune it ~1hz lower, and price it 40% higher. Seems reasonable

Just keep its overall height under 26.5", so I can still fit one under my projector screen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Basement Build Thread
Paradigm Studio 60v3, Studio 570v3, Studio 20v5, 2x PSA S3000i, Onkyo TX-NR808, PS3, Chromecast+Plex, Acer H6510BD, Elite 125" 2.35 Screen, GIK
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Okay, well...if you believe that the measurements indicate each product shows similar engineering results...I would disagree strongly.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Not what I am saying. Not similar ENGINEERING results, a good over all product that is measured well.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:56 PM
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Howdy Tom,

Will Power Sound Audio audio be at this year's Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Denver?
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Not what I am saying. Not similar ENGINEERING results, a good over all product that is measured well.

Okay, I guess "measured well" can be interpreted in a nearly endless amount of ways. I disagree but its time to just agree to disagree me thinks.

Tom V.
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:10 PM
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I had some setup issues and Tom worked through them with me. He even downloaded my receiver manual to walk me through where I was "misguided". He knew all along it was the receiver yet he was very polite and patient knowing full well it was the dumbarse on the other end of the chat session - well done sir!

First impressions - This is just raw, ear level matched, no anti-mode, or Audyssey yet.

All I can say is that if I suffered from erectile dysfunction previously, I am cured. MAN o' MAN, this sounds NICE!!!!

I thought these JBL 4722s were amazing before, but crossed at 80hz with the two sc3000i and it is magnificent. I put in the Eagles blu-ray and it was heaven on Earth. Nice deep, snappy punch on the kick and toms courtessy of the s3000i's while the JBL's provide glassy, crystal, shimmering cymbals. Vocals are off the cart. This is the best I have every heard my system. Simply amazed at how my system has improved in a month from Onix Rockets and PB13 Ultras to the current setup. My daughter is playing the new Elder scrolls right now and she is grinning at the sound.
Glad to hear all is well! This is really what it's all about, enjoying new gear in the company friends and/or family.

Congrats on the purchase man!
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sloandsteady View Post
Howdy Tom,

Will Power Sound Audio audio be at this year's Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Denver?
Never say never but extremely doubtful. Not that these shows wouldn't be a blast for us but we'd be looking at what 3-4-5(or more) days of compromised communication with customers? I couldn't sleep well with that going on. Not to mention...we're months behind in several key engineering areas. For example, we wanted to have wood veneer options available on the small subs and the speakers by now.

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Old 06-10-2015, 01:23 PM
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I happen to be one of the early PSA adopters and knew nothing about anything I spent so much time with Tom through emails that Jim had to take over early on. I watched this company grow from word of mouth advertising, I had a really big mouth. I remember Tom or Jim would email me and say don't decide on anything yet as we have something new in the works. As all know I had many PSA products to play with and they always maintained their resale value both on the net and trade in as well. It was and is a fun fun fun ride.

Talk about perks, PSA is the real perkulator, reminds me of the old metal coffee pots with the glass knob on the handle. Today I got a really unexpected surprise, (perk) as it's my Birthday, thanks guys...........

Cheers Jeff
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Not to mention...we're months behind in several key engineering areas. For example, we wanted to have wood veneer options available on the small subs and the speakers by now.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
This is an important detail , I would say, providing some options on veneers for the small subs. Would also love to have black piano option as well.
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Change is the only constant.

My HT: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post32691273
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:04 PM
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I just love these suggestions . However, I think Tom has been in the business long enough to know what works, what is feasible and what would increase overhead and fill more of their time with inventory- and/or vendor-related problems. The price of a piano black finish would be prohibitive (think $500 to $800 extra depending upon the subwoofer size). It takes a lot of skill and man-hours, unless you have all that done at a Chinese factory that does nothing but piano black finishes. Now, how many here would pay $2,000 to $2,300 for a $1,500 sub?

I’m actually shocked that PSA has as many products as it does. That doesn’t usually work well for very long, so I expect a bit of streamlining soon.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Okay, I guess "measured well" can be interpreted in a nearly endless amount of ways. I disagree but its time to just agree to disagree me thinks.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
'Measured well' including your subs unless you disagree with that also. It's is up to us, consumers to decide if your products are better than your competitors regardless of you think your products are superior or well engineered or not. Which company talks down on their products?
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:09 PM
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This is an important detail , I would say, providing some options on veneers for the small subs. Would also love to have black piano option as well.
Gloss black will be tough "made in USA". I mean a TRUE gloss black. Not some half hearted attempt that is described as "well, it looks pretty good considering...".

True, top notch gloss black is very labor intensive and with the disparity between SE asia labor costs and ours I'm not sure we'll ever be able to provide that option unless we source it overseas.

Tom V.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:13 PM
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'Measured well' including your subs unless you disagree with that also. It's is up to us, consumers to decide if your products are better than your competitors regardless of you think your products are superior or well engineered or not. Which company talks down on their products?
I really have no idea what the question is this time or why we're even dragging this out further? Let me put it this way----I believe many of the products measured by Josh show excellent design and engineering skills. I believe there are some products that show neither. I encourage everyone to research what a "good" waterfall chart should look like for example and then review those. Make up your own mind..

Tom V.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:16 PM
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Any room in here for a few more pics of the S3000i in the wild?

I'm nearing the end of my 30 day trial period with the intent to keep enjoying the subs I added to my system. They are beautiful to look at, perform great and were a breeze to integrate into my system with my DIY subs.

These showed up on my birthday:






After eq'ing and running Audyssey with my 8801 I measured this response with my OmniMic:


Because of some shipping damage, I requested a replacement S3000i. Tom was fantastic in getting a replacement to me with very little pain. After some discussion and consideration, I decided to keep the damaged S3000i rather than ship it back and ended up with 3 of them . I decided to stack them in a rear corner until I could figure out where to place them that would make my wife happy.



With the subs temporarily stacked in the corner we watched Guardians of the Galaxy and it sounded so good I decided to measure the response (without yet re-running Audyssey):


Yeah, I want to leave them in the corner but I know that won't fly.

I'm very pleased with these subs! The response also includes my DIY subs up front.

I've clogged this thread enough so those interested in more pics can find them in the 2.0 link in my sig.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:28 PM
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Hi KJLewis,

Thanks to you for being so patient through the replacement process as well. It's tough to complain about our damage rates but stuff happens and we try our best to minimize any inconvenience to the customer.

Do you mind if I share the pictures on facebook? We often get requests for more "life style" photos of the veneer options.

So the triple stack....140dB + in the mid and upper bass...nuts!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Ok, those pesky PMs again. As far as my "motives"....isn't that obvious to everyone? I mean seriously? My motives are to explain why I believe the "perks" that have come into question are a integral part of Power Sound Audio and have value to the majority of our customer base. I understand that is a matter of opinion but I may have a bit more of a sample size to work off of(versus a couple PMs?) ? I'm guessing 30,000+ customers and 100,000+ consultations over the last 15+ years. The most common comments I hear, by FAR, are with regards to these "perks" and why they are so important to potential customers. I can't really explain it any better.

Not sure why they(secret PM guys) don't feel comfortable posting their POV here. This thread has a long history of folks disagreeing with me(look at basshead!). I'll offer my own opinion(s) of course...that's why I'm here after all. Things rarely, if ever, digress into anything less than a fun exchange of ideas.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
OK, I'll chime in a little. Now I'm a rookie here. In the last 6 months I've purchased an xs30se, dual xv15, and 3 mt110s. I can say I've researched many other companied and read a lot here. I chose PSA because of quality products and "great perks". Made in USA, (not overseas) is huge and I'm willing to spend a little extra for that. I do have some Chinese speakers from aperion but the PSA mt110 sound a lot better. Although I don't plan to use free shipping both ways, its nice. No tax is also great. Customer service has been really incredible since its the owner and developer, not just a tech person. I like the perks and helped me choose, Along with all of you guys here.
Chip
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:37 PM
 
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Any room in here for a few more pics of the S3000i in the wild?

I'm nearing the end of my 30 day trial period with the intent to keep enjoying the subs I added to my system. They are beautiful to look at, perform great and were a breeze to integrate into my system with my DIY subs.

These showed up on my birthday:

You might NOT be a redneck if your sub is bigger than your John Deere.

Amazing setup you have there. Well done
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:38 PM
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Hi Tom,

Thanks again for the outstanding service and the awesome subs. Feel free to use the pics. They are only iPhone quality and I hope most will overlook the fact that I didn't tidy up beforehand.

Yes, the triple stack in the rear and 4 18s up front is...nuts. I keep telling myself and everyone else that the massive bass capability is used responsibly to provide quality bass to every seat. But, sometimes it awesome to open the throttle and just go for MOAR!!

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Old 06-10-2015, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Gloss black will be tough "made in USA". I mean a TRUE gloss black. Not some half hearted attempt that is described as "well, it looks pretty good considering...".

True, top notch gloss black is very labor intensive and with the disparity between SE asia labor costs and ours I'm not sure we'll ever be able to provide that option unless we source it overseas.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Interesting and understandable, but I will put it out as an idea, if all else that goes into the sub/speaker( most important things, drivers/amps/electronics, are made and assembled here in US, I do not believe that would be sacrilege to consider outsourcing one type of veneer.
Unless it is completely against the vision of the company.

I am sure that among the PSA customers there are bunch who enjoy German beers, Japanese cars, French cheeses, Italian wines, Chinese food etc.

Change is the only constant.

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Old 06-10-2015, 02:46 PM
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You might NOT be a redneck if your sub is bigger than your John Deere.

Amazing setup you have there. Well done
Thanks. I thought my JD was a big 'un until I got home and saw those boxes. You should have seen my wife's expression when I told her they were actually small footprint subs considering there are two drivers per box.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:53 PM
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Quote:




Holy EXTENSION Batman!! That is completely insane, and I am very jealous. Your room looks to be pretty large (like mine) and even with dual T-18s I can't come anywhere close to that kind of extension.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:03 PM
 
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You got some muscle to get that 3rd sub up there. I was grunting just moving my two around the room by myself.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sinisanav View Post
Interesting and understandable, but I will put it out as an idea, if all else that goes into the sub/speaker( most important things, drivers/amps/electronics, are made and assembled here in US, I do not believe that would be sacrilege to consider outsourcing one type of veneer.
Unless it is completely against the vision of the company.

I am sure that among the PSA customers there are bunch who enjoy German beers, Japanese cars, French cheeses, Italian wines, Chinese food etc.
Oh we haven't ruled the SE Asia sourcing out completely. At SOME point that may be dictated to us. One of the hurdles is MOQs though. Jim and I have plenty of experience working with SE Asia vendors in terms of engineering, costing, MOQs, etc. In our experience, the work ethic is excellent although the running joke is R/D in china means receive and duplicate..

To get reasonable pricing we're often looking at 20ft container loads. And 40ft would be much better from a costing POV. Those guys won't want to do 10 of 10 different boxes. Well, they WILL, but for $$$. Think more like 50 of 2 different cabinets. That might represent a full year's worth of inventory. With inventory turns at 12 months you don't need enemies.

We're always open to suggestions like this.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:13 PM
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Holy EXTENSION Batman!! That is completely insane, and I am very jealous. Your room looks to be pretty large (like mine) and even with dual T-18s I can't come anywhere close to that kind of extension.
Thanks. It's a basement family room open to the rest of the house. Audyssey has a 6db cut and the gain on the subs is around 25-30% of max. So there is way more in the tank than I'll use here and I'm getting extension to a measured 5hz...so, yeah, goofy grins and childish giggles are pretty common.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:14 PM
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Why the hostility? If you think Tom is a prick, arrogant, or (insert adjective), then so be it. What is the end result of the posts? If you don't like him, his business, then vote with your wallet. I am glad I chose PSA. I ordered my subs last Wednesday and they arrived yesterday. I had setup issues and Tom spent 30 minutes on chat with me. I had questions answered at every turn in the road on the way to purchase. He even spoke highly of competitors i.e Seaton and JTR. In the beginning, I was really close with going with Echo 18s because of cost. I am so glad I didn't. I would have had RA holding my money while they order the parts to build my sub. It would have taken 5 or more weeks for it to arrive. I would have been pissed and ready to throw down the minute I had multiple emails and calls go unanswered on a status. Have you seen the finish work on the subs in their thread? The fit and finish is flawless on the PSA. If Tom released a 18" sub that is only a couple hundred bucks more, it is a no brainer. We have the new company on the block with a lot of uncertainty if he will be around in another year or a guy who is well known in the industry and has been around for almost two decades. The finish alone by what I saw in the pictures is worth the extra cost, not counting the warranty, customer support, and decade of experience. I learned a long time ago quality is worth a bit more. I have ended up spending thousands more to save a couple hundred in the beginning. However, I am a bit older and have experienced more hard knocks than the younger crew. I am not discounting that a couple hundred bucks is chump change either, so I hope that isn't perceived. I lived many a year in a single wide trailer - broke like no joke. Just saying I "get it" on both sides of the coin. Either way, if you don't like PSA why bother?

Chris
Have you read the posts a page or two back where Tom picked on Fatty who owns PSA product plus the other guy's products? In the past, he also picked on jbrown who used to own psa product and now the other guy's products. Neither of them never said bad thing about PSA and I thought it is not cool for the owner to come out and pick on them which is why I chimed in and gave my opinion. I often recommend psa products if it's right for a member situation. You chose PSA, that is your choice. I already had my choice. Read Tom and my posts, did I say anything wrong other than as a consumer's opinion?
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:17 PM
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You got some muscle to get that 3rd sub up there. I was grunting just moving my two around the room by myself.
My son was home from college and stepped up. College kids can lift without blinking or thinking. I stretched for 20 mins and ran a couple of laps to get loose enough to grab my end.

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Old 06-10-2015, 03:33 PM
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This is an important detail , I would say, providing some options on veneers for the small subs. Would also love to have black piano option as well.
Yes! I would have paid extra for the espresso veneer on my XS15se's!

My humble system:

Vizio E601I-A3; Darbee Darblet; Pioneer Elite BDP-62FD universal blu-ray player; Pioneer Elite SC-67 AVR, Dual PSA XS15se's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, Radeon R280, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case)
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:02 PM
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Piano black is great. The espresso might be dark enough to blend in satisfactorily with my piano black home theater speakers, but I would like to see pictures before I order. Putting a gloss on the real wood veneers also looks really nice. Seems like some would pay the premium if it were available.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Have you read the posts a page or two back where Tom picked on Fatty who owns PSA product plus the other guy's products? In the past, he also picked on jbrown who used to own psa product and now the other guy's products. Neither of them never said bad thing about PSA and I thought it is not cool for the owner to come out and pick on them which is why I chimed in and gave my opinion. I often recommend psa products if it's right for a member situation. You chose PSA, that is your choice. I already had my choice. Read Tom and my posts, did I say anything wrong other than as a consumer's opinion?
Why you calling him Fatty? That wasnt nice I thought Tom was a bit ruff on him, but there are some in the RA camp that are not as forthcoming as they appear, so I understand Tom's stance. I am certain he is very sincere and was giving opinion as a former and future customer.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:37 PM
mnc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Jimmy View Post
Piano black is great. The espresso might be dark enough to blend in satisfactorily with my piano black home theater speakers, but I would like to see pictures before I order. Putting a gloss on the real wood veneers also looks really nice. Seems like some would pay the premium if it were available.
When I first started researching a sub, I thought I HAD to have gloss black to match my speakers. I was nearly ready to buy an SVS PB-12 plus until several members here pointed out that I could get Way more sub for my money. After MUCH research, I decided on PSA and showed my wife a picture of the Satin Black finish. She said "whatever, as long as it's black."

I don't mind one bit that my sub isn't gloss black like my speakers, even with my setup in my living room! My wife doesn't mind either; after her initial reaction when seeing the SIZE of the sub!
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NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, DUAL PSA XS30SE's
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