Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 661 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19801 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Great information bass, very helpful. Thank you.
No prob!

To be honest I really like the looks of Dirac live the best but it does not eq multiple subs. Then I would need to put the mini dsp back in the chain and then I am back to dealing with clipping above -0.

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post #19802 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 11:45 AM
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Is it just me or does sitting the sub up on the foam packing supports seem to increase performance? I could swear there's just something different/better after I did that. It could just be my imagination I suppose. Anyone else feel the same?
That's interesting. I never tried it so I can't comment one way or the other but I find the thought intriguing. Off the top of my head I wouldn't think it would make a difference but maybe it does.
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post #19803 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
No prob!

To be honest I really like the looks of Dirac live the best but it does not eq multiple subs. Then I would need to put the mini dsp back in the chain and then I am back to dealing with clipping above -0.
I know what you mean. Sometimes I feel like I'm going around and around in circles with decisions regarding this stuff.

If I do one thing then I will have to change something else which means I will have to add another thing which means I have to do something I don't want to or can't afford… It goes on and on.
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post #19804 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I know what you mean. Sometimes I feel like I'm going around and around in circles with decisions regarding this stuff.

If I do one thing then I will have to change something else which means I will have to add another thing which means I have to do something I don't want to or can't afford… It goes on and on.
That's what makes it fun!!!
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post #19805 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by versicolor View Post
Is it just me or does sitting the sub up on the foam packing supports seem to increase performance? I could swear there's just something different/better after I did that. It could just be my imagination I suppose. Anyone else feel the same?
What was it sitting on before?

If you hear a difference, that's all that matters really.

Do you have the ability to measure your response? If you do, do some before/after measurements and post 'em up!
It was sitting on the floor. I know about isolation pads etc. Never tried them though. I'm sure these offer a similar effect.
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post #19806 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 01:20 PM
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V1500 on the foam or whatever it is...
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post #19807 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 01:22 PM
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Unless the pic didn't work. I can't see it on my phone anyways.
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post #19808 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 01:33 PM
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i would not say its more advanced....it doesnt let you adjust any of its mesurements...

imho the minidsp is the superior product...but with that comes the knowledge of how to use it properly.

the antimode is for those who dont want to tweak...might not do 100% the job of the minidsp..but no time invloved. (btw I have owned both....and have chosen the minidsp)
When I said it's more advanced, I mean in terms of the parts (chips) used in the production. IRC, Antimode uses a more advanced dual core processor while MiniDSP uses most likely a single core processor. Being more advanced does not necessary mean it is more user friendly or more customizable. Antimode aims at the customers who like to set it and forget it and commands a higher price for this service.
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post #19809 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
With reagrds to the V3600i vs. T-18---It all comes down to chasing single digits for the most part IMO. The T-18 gives your 4 octaves (7.5-15, 15-30, 30-60, 60-120)m the V3600i gives you the upper 3 octaves. Is single digits a goal...then its the T-18 or multiples of the T-18.

The S3600i, now we're back to truck freight and that cost/headache. The cabinet grows quite a bit and the most common comment I get now(when dealing with potential customers) is..."man, that S3000i is NICE, but it is so huge..." Every time you increase enclosure size you are reducing the potential customer base as well.

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Regarding sub size on an S3000i (donk know how much larger a potential S3600i would be), my response is "get over it". 15 or so years ago when I first tried to audition replacements for my Klipsch Forte mains, I started looking into towers for the first time in many years. My first response was-why are they all so small now and the answer I got was "the wives won the battle." Thankfully they did not win the war and its about time that the pendulum has swung back where it belongs because as the saying goes-there is no replacement for displacement.

Today I have found a replacement for the beloved Forte speakers but that was accomplished by coupling a large quality subwoofer (and now 2 large subs) and high quality speakers to handle the upper end.

Not everyone can get away with this and to each his own, but for me its the only way to go. Now if I could just fit 2 T18'sbut that would be pushing the envelope
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post #19810 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 01:36 PM
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V1500 on the foam or whatever it is...
I think Tom has recommended trying this before buying something like a SubDude.
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post #19811 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 01:37 PM
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The Mini DSP is a awesome piece of software. However my experience with the 2x4 unbalanced is the signal clips about -5db lower then without it in the signal chain. I have a yamaha 773 and I can normally turn the volume up to -0 without clipping. If I go past that point the signal starts clipping. Add the mini dsp in the chain and I am now limited to -5. If I listen at lower volumes -10/-15 range there are no issues...however I like to be able to get spirited from time to time. The clipping issues has been a problem with the mini with several others. I am not sure if it has to do with certain AVR pre out voltage, but I know it definitely limits my headroom to some degree. If it was not for that I would have it in the chain because it's capabilities are fantastic.

The base antimode is designed mainly for one sub or duals if they equal distant from the LP. It's a plug and play solution mainly for those that do not have XT32 sub eq HT. For those with XT32 I do not see the base Antimode offering much improvement.

The dual core is where it's at if you can fork the bill. I have spoke with Tom about it and I might try one out. This device actually adds some gain in the signal chain, so there is no need for y splitters(which do not work for ice amps anyway). This unit can discretely eq dual subs or in my case 3. The 2 subs that are equal distance from the LP hook up to channel 1, the 3rd sub will hook to channel 2.
Great info, thanks! I was planning on grabbing a mini at some point to eq my Buttkickers, but not after your post. I always listen at reference and don't want anything getting clipped.
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post #19812 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 03:00 PM
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The Mini DSP is a awesome piece of software. However my experience with the 2x4 unbalanced is the signal clips about -5db lower then without it in the signal chain. ......... If it was not for that I would have it in the chain because it's capabilities are fantastic.

Wouldn't that problem be cured simply by using the balanced version with a 2.0 volt output instead of the 0.9v that the unbalanced has?
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post #19813 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 05:11 PM
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Thanks for the quick update/review. Would you mind if I copy/pasted this to our facebook page?

Anyway, at $699, the XV15 is a crazy value. But we'll be going back to 799 as soon as we have time to do some website updates..

Tom V.
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Oh of course! May be hitting you up again soon via chat once I play with it a bit more.
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post #19814 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 08:25 PM
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Wouldn't that problem be cured simply by using the balanced version with a 2.0 volt output instead of the 0.9v that the unbalanced has?
Possibly...

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post #19815 of 22129 Old 06-11-2015, 09:53 PM
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Wouldn't that problem be cured simply by using the balanced version with a 2.0 volt output instead of the 0.9v that the unbalanced has?
Please elaborate on this, I have been wondering what the difference is between the balanced or unbalanced minidsp. I am going back and forth between the minidsp vs the antimode. Not sure which will suit me best.
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post #19816 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 04:02 AM
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Wouldn't that problem be cured simply by using the balanced version with a 2.0 volt output instead of the 0.9v that the unbalanced has?
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Possibly...
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Originally Posted by James Taylor 2 View Post
Please elaborate on this, I have been wondering what the difference is between the balanced or unbalanced minidsp. I am going back and forth between the minidsp vs the antimode. Not sure which will suit me best.
I believe that he meant the 2V unbalanced Rev B version? As this is the only option that PSA offers, I am wondering if this would resolve the issue as well and how it might do it. On Minidsp website, they still offer both voltage versions so each must have some kind of advantage to the other depending on your setup.

Some clarification would help me and possibly others out.

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post #19817 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 05:46 AM
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Going to be putting my Xv15 up in classifieds. Located in Ohio if anyone needs one. Feel free to msg me
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post #19818 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 07:15 AM
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I believe that he meant the 2V unbalanced Rev B version? As this is the only option that PSA offers, I am wondering if this would resolve the issue as well and how it might do it. On Minidsp website, they still offer both voltage versions so each must have some kind of advantage to the other depending on your setup.

Some clarification would help me and possibly others out.
Revision A and B are the same unit, you simply change the jumper on the board. I am using the revision B setting with the 2v input volt setting, still have clipping issues. I believe the issue is the output voltage side of the mini dsp. If you hook it up the output level drops about 6db, the bash amp subs can off set this by using y-adapters to bring the level back up. That being said I still get some clipping even using y adapters to both inputs on the sub. Ice amp subs do not sum both inputs so y adapters do nothing. Again this issue is at loud levels, actually significantly louder then I ever listen. However I can not stand the fact to know the mini is costing me 3db of headroom I never even use. Might be slightly ocd on this one.
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post #19819 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The dual core is where it's at if you can fork the bill. I have spoke with Tom about it and I might try one out. This device actually adds some gain in the signal chain, so there is no need for y splitters(which do not work for ice amps anyway). This unit can discretely eq dual subs or in my case 3. The 2 subs that are equal distance from the LP hook up to channel 1, the 3rd sub will hook to channel 2.
Bass, this is interesting part of info, why does ICE do not work with Y-splitters?
That might change my plans for the time-beeing, as I have preamp with only one LFE out.

Change is the only constant.

My HT: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post32691273
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post #19820 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 07:35 AM
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Bass, this is interesting part of info, why does ICE do not work with Y-splitters?
That might change my plans for the time-beeing, as I have preamp with only one LFE out.
you can use a Y-Splitter but using one and connecting both right and left input on the ice amps won't cause an increase in input signal strength. The ice amps don't sum both the left and right inputs the way the older amps have done. I believe they have differing input sensitivities on the left and right inputs.
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post #19821 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 07:43 AM
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Bass, this is interesting part of info, why does ICE do not work with Y-splitters?
That might change my plans for the time-beeing, as I have preamp with only one LFE out.
They work, they just do not sum the output for a +6db gain in output level. On the bash amp stuff, using a y-splitter would trim the output level +6db, which is good if your AVR has low output voltage.

I am going to try putting the mini dsp back in the chain and try a few things. It really is a fantastic piece for the money. I am not implying the Mini is the prime culprit, but I do get some clipping with it in the chain. I know Alan P ran into the same thing. I more or less ended up leaving it out because I get a decent response with no EQ. Yes it is not razor flat but its not bad at all. I have a 6db peak around 30hz the rest is pretty flat from 18-90hz.

I do not mean to push anybody away from trying the Mini! It may be my AVR being it clips the signal if I go above MV -0 anyway. I have been debating replacing it.
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post #19822 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 08:32 AM
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That's what makes it fun!!!
This is true.

Fun and expensive……... But definitely fun.
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post #19823 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 08:40 AM
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you can use a Y-Splitter but using one and connecting both right and left input on the ice amps won't cause an increase in input signal strength. The ice amps don't sum both the left and right inputs the way the older amps have done. I believe they have differing input sensitivities on the left and right inputs.
Hi all,


I know there has been some ongoing confusion about this and I wouldn't be surprised if I misspoke regarding this recently as well. Everything (ICE powered as well) we've been shipping for the last couple months does sum the L/R inputs for a 6dB gain.

I have all sorts of scribbles in front of me for my "notes" during testing and discussions with Brian for the ICE amps, and for all of my testing with the Anti Modes. I'm going to spend this weekend breaking this "code" and put all of this info into an easy to reference form for myself.

Anyway, sorry again for the confusion.

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post #19824 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 12:34 PM
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Ahh so the revised ICE amps sum both inputs...good to know. I know initially it was said they did not.

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post #19825 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
I believe that he meant the 2V unbalanced Rev B version? As this is the only option that PSA offers, I am wondering if this would resolve the issue as well and how it might do it. On Minidsp website, they still offer both voltage versions so each must have some kind of advantage to the other depending on your setup.

Some clarification would help me and possibly others out.

No, I meant the 2 volt BALANCED version. It has a 2 volt output instead of the limited 0.9 volt output that the unbalanced version has. I wasn't aware the PSA only offered the unbalanced version. Sorry for the confusion.


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Revision A and B are the same unit, you simply change the jumper on the board.

I am using the revision B setting with the 2v input volt setting, still have clipping issues. I believe the issue is the output voltage side of the mini dsp.

If you hook it up the output level drops about 6db, the bash amp subs can off set this by using y-adapters to bring the level back up. That being said I still get some clipping even using y adapters to both inputs on the sub. Ice amp subs do not sum both inputs so y adapters do nothing. Again this issue is at loud levels, actually significantly louder then I ever listen. However I can not stand the fact to know the mini is costing me 3db of headroom I never even use. Might be slightly ocd on this one.

Correct.

It sounds like it.

Possibly. JK. I'm right there with you. It would bug me to know there was a limitation in the system. Do you have the ICE amps? I can't remember. Tom says above that the newest ICE amps do sum the inputs now like the BASH amps.
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post #19826 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 12:52 PM
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Ice. Bash. Ish. Bice. What am I doing?

It's FRIDAY people! Have a good weekend.
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Yippee-ki-yay...
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post #19827 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 04:09 PM
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No, I meant the 2 volt BALANCED version. It has a 2 volt output instead of the limited 0.9 volt output that the unbalanced version has. I wasn't aware the PSA only offered the unbalanced version. Sorry for the confusion.


Correct.

It sounds like it.

Possibly. JK. I'm right there with you. It would bug me to know there was a limitation in the system. Do you have the ICE amps? I can't remember. Tom says above that the newest ICE amps do sum the inputs now like the BASH amps.

Yes I think the confusion is the unbalanced mini dsp has a 2v/.9v INPUT option but the output voltage is still only .9 volts.

The BALANCED Mini DSP has a 2v in and 2v out put voltage. I believe this is why the DIY crowd go this route to address the potential clipping issues. The problem with the Balanced version the last I checked is it is not AS plug and play. You have to splice the power in and use XLR connection/adapters. Basically takes a little more work to get it set up.

I have the original base plate XV15's with the SE upgrades. The best looking version imo...love the radius corners and the base plate makes it look more like a piece of furniture.
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post #19828 of 22129 Old 06-12-2015, 05:06 PM
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I have a question for you guys, when you run Audyssey what position do you have the room size set at and if you change it do you need to run Audyssey again?
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Ice. Bash. Ish. Bice. What am I doing?

It's FRIDAY people! Have a good weekend.
Ice ice baby...

(sorry, had to) Must be the S3000i talking...
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Originally Posted by jd10ac View Post
I have a question for you guys, when you run Audyssey what position do you have the room size set at and if you change it do you need to run Audyssey again?
I would also like to know this....I think I know the answer: Room size small, run Audy and when done adjust to your preference, not running Audy again.......yes...no????
Jeff
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