Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 667 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 17103Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-17-2015, 04:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
climber07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,062
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by DELLPHOTO View Post
Hello

I am from colombia, i see this subwoofer velodyne hgs 18 a 400us.


I would please me to recommend if 400us is a good buy or is it better to buy a new subwoofer as the svs PB1000,
Right now I have a subwoofer MFW15 AV123 and Sony STR-DN850 , I will feel the difference?

thank you very much for your help
Both are horrible subs. You need to look at the PSA VX-15se.
lizrussspike likes this.

Onkyo TX-NR3009 - Emotiva XPA-2 300 WPC - Polk Audio RTiA9 Mains - CSiA6 Center - F/XiA6 Surrounds - Dual PSA XV-15se Subwoofers - Epson 5030UB Projector - Monoprice Multi-format 106" HD Gray screen - Samsung BD-F5900 3D Bluray - WDTV Live HD Media Player with 6TB External Storage - Nintendo Wii - XBox 360 - Logitech Harmony One, and custom DIY media console...
climber07 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-17-2015, 05:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 3,991
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1350 Post(s)
Liked: 3371
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
No worries! After chatting with Tom, I felt confident that dual XS30se's would meet my needs and save me a lot of money. Then just as I was about to end our chat, an XS30se was delivered to them! How's that for perfect timing! So I ordered it! Should get it Friday. Talk about Happy Birthday to ME!

Anyway, total cost for DUAL XS30se's - $1999!!!!
Now that is very cool. Congrats to you my friend.
mnc, ahblaza and gbreda like this.
Hopinater is offline  
Old 06-17-2015, 05:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 5,284
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1977 Post(s)
Liked: 2526
Quote:
Originally Posted by DELLPHOTO View Post
Hello

I am from colombia, i see this subwoofer velodyne hgs 18 a 400us.


I would please me to recommend if 400us is a good buy or is it better to buy a new subwoofer as the svs PB1000,
Right now I have a subwoofer MFW15 AV123 and Sony STR-DN850 , I will feel the difference?

thank you very much for your help
This was a $3,000 U.S. sub back in 1999 or 2000. It has an 18-inch driver and 1,250 watt amplifier. I don’t know what age may have done to this sub and its materials, but one sold on eBay for $710 not too long ago. It was an impressive sub for its time, but that was 15 years ago. So unless one can inspect it visual for cone radial cracks and surround age damage/separation, I might be a bit wary. I’d be more surprised that the amplifier has lasted this long, so perhaps it was well taken care of. If it is in good shape, then $400 is a good deal. But before you buy I’d take a look to see what it would cost to replace the driver and amp, just in case.
oneeyeblind and ahblaza like this.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is offline  
Old 06-17-2015, 07:03 PM
mnc
AVS Special Member
 
mnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 2,343
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 458 Post(s)
Liked: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Now that is very cool. Congrats to you my friend.
Thanks, I'm SO excited! The timing was unbelievable! Just in time for Father's Day AND my Birthday!

Hmmm... what to watch first???

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, DUAL PSA XS30SE's
mnc is online now  
Old 06-17-2015, 08:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 9,289
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
How can he boost 10db more if he's compressing like crazy at -10MV?? I'm confused maybe....it happens a lot around here.

Also, we don't know if he's compressing at -15MV because he didn't measure any lower.
Oh I thought his highest sweep was taken @ -5. I could be mistaken, if so then no he could not.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html

Last edited by basshead81; 06-17-2015 at 08:15 PM.
basshead81 is offline  
Old 06-17-2015, 08:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 9,289
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Alan, just get 2 more T18's. Problem solved
I believe Alan can sort this without needing to spend another 5400.00. 4 T-18's would be nasty but a pair should get him reference level from 16hz on up.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html

Last edited by basshead81; 06-17-2015 at 08:14 PM.
basshead81 is offline  
Old 06-17-2015, 08:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 9,289
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip61 View Post
You guys are focusing too much with your eyes and not enough with your ears.
Some of us listen with ours ears then follow up with measurements to see if what are ears are telling us match what we measure. I have listened for well over a year without making any changes to my setup. I wanted to tinker and put the DSP back in the chain...I believe Alan has listened to his setup for the better part of 6mo without tinkering. We are just trying to sort out some potential clipping issues with the Mini DSP. Our apologies, we will go back to the standard "congrats on your new sub" chit chat and take the technical discussion elsewhere.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html

Last edited by basshead81; 06-17-2015 at 08:16 PM.
basshead81 is offline  
Old 06-17-2015, 08:40 PM
Senior Member
 
skip61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Some of us listen with ours ears then follow up with measurements to see if what are ears are telling us match what we measure. I have listened for well over a year without making any changes to my setup. I wanted to tinker and put the DSP back in the chain...I believe Alan has listened to his setup for the better part of 6mo without tinkering. We are just trying to sort out some potential clipping issues with the Mini DSP. Our apologies, we will go back to the standard "congrats on your new sub" chit chat and take the technical discussion elsewhere.
I understand trying to get the most out of your equipement trust me i know because i did the same for my display and then i decided to get it professionally calibrated.
skip61 is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 04:10 AM
Advanced Member
 
gbreda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 689
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by tang7969 View Post
Sorry MNC, I just snagged it I'm hoping it's a nice jump up from my XV15se. Tom is confident that it will be!!
EDIT: I might put my XV15se up for sale. PM me if interested
Nice score on a really good price for a single sub.

I really do believe the jump from XV15se to S3000i will be noticeable but definitely post your impressions of this change. I almost went with 2 XV15se, but so far really glad I went S3000i. I havent had a ported sub in my system since going to high quality subs so a direct comparison (although ywo very different animals IMO) should be very interesting.
gbreda is online now  
Old 06-18-2015, 05:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 3,991
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1350 Post(s)
Liked: 3371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
See my link to AustinJerry's awesome guide a couple posts up. I wish I would have had that guide when I got my MiniDSP a couple years ago.

It's the clipping that's getting me I think. Just have to measure my pre-out voltage and I should be good to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
It is easier then getting REW running. The Mini DSP is a great device just as long as you do not run into clipping. I have not used mine in over a year and had it up and running in no time.

What I found was I had the Input gain set +6 for my Auxillary hdmi input on my 773 and that was clipping the signal when taking measurements....noob mistake! I know better then to max any gain structure as that is sure to lead to signal clipping at higher volumes. I found that using +3 on all my input sources works the best and that pretty much puts me at reference @ MV -3. It really takes time find the right balance for amp and preamp gain settings to extract the most output out of your system. If I remember correctly one of the big diy guys here gained +10db of headroom sorting out the signal chain.
Thanks for the feedback guys. As always, I appreciate it.
Hopinater is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 05:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 3,991
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1350 Post(s)
Liked: 3371
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Some of us listen with ours ears then follow up with measurements to see if what are ears are telling us match what we measure. I have listened for well over a year without making any changes to my setup. I wanted to tinker and put the DSP back in the chain...I believe Alan has listened to his setup for the better part of 6mo without tinkering. We are just trying to sort out some potential clipping issues with the Mini DSP. Our apologies, we will go back to the standard "congrats on your new sub" chit chat and take the technical discussion elsewhere.
Nope…. I can't support that!

You can't take this discussion somewhere else because then I have to go and track it down and it's much more convenient to have this wealth of information right here in the PSA sub thread (where it belongs).

I use all these technical posts to increase my understanding of this hobby and I have no interest in paying someone to professionally calibrate my system when I can do it myself and learn a lot along the way.

Besides, this thread gets real boring real fast when all it consists of is congratulating one another on new subs (as fun as that is to do). What makes this thread so good is the sharing of information that allows us to better our HT setups.

So keep the wealth of knowledge flowing.
lz7j, ahblaza, sinisanav and 3 others like this.
Hopinater is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 05:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Brian Fineberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,935
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3273 Post(s)
Liked: 3080
besdies...PSA SELLS the minidsp...so it is in fact 100% related and not off topic
oneeyeblind and ahblaza like this.

JVC RS400 4K PJ | Denon x7200WA 7.2.4 ATMOS/DTS-X | Emotiva XPA-5 gen2 |Emotiva XPA-200 gen2 | DIY 1099's LCR| (4) VOLT 6 sidesurrounds/Back Surrounds | (4) VOLT 6 ATMOS | 1 - PSA XS30 | (2) DIY SI-HT18 sealed (2) DIY SI18 DS4 sealed| (2) inuke6000dp | Samsung K8500 4k UHD BDP | 16x11x7.5 sealed HT SadieMax theater...my first DIY build and ongoing projects
Brian Fineberg is online now  
Old 06-18-2015, 06:40 AM
Member
 
k1n3t1k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You saw this right?




It's the MiniDSP that is holding 'em back for some reason. Gonna try to sort it out tonight.
Alan,

I'm a novice when it comes to REW and the MiniDSP, but I'm patient and determined. That said, I've been reading up on calibrations, REW, MiniDSP, and Jerry's guide along with other things on the Internet and I came across some information on the MiniDSP site and was wondering if it applies to your situation, since the T-18 is a sealed sub.

On the site, it talks about using a Linkwitz Transform filter and seems to help extend out the sub's capabilities using this compared to the standard application model. Have you looked at this or given it a try?

http://www.minidsp.com/applications/...witz-transform

Best of luck!
k1n3t1k is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 07:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,735
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3660 Post(s)
Liked: 2428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
See my link to AustinJerry's awesome guide a couple posts up. I wish I would have had that guide when I got my MiniDSP a couple years ago.

It's the clipping that's getting me I think. Just have to measure my pre-out voltage and I should be good to go.
OK, so last night I measured my AVRs output voltage on the sub pre-outs...something very strange is going on I think. I need to confirm with AustinJerry, but this can't be right.

Following Jerry's MiniDSP guide here, the idea is to get your output voltage at .9v or lower so as not to clip the 2x4 unbalanced MiniDSP inputs (limited to .9v for Rev. A and 2.0v for Rev. B, easily changed with a jumper).

I didn't measure .9v until both sub trims were set to -12db (the lower limit on my Denon 4520)! I also checked to see where the sub trim would have to be if I switched the jumper for 2.0v input...that was at a sub trim of -6.5db where I saw 1.9v. I know that Jerry also has a 4520 and he got .9v at -4.5db. Now, I'm not sure if it matters at all where the sub trim is set in the AVR, but -12 seems a bit excessive....and I just don't like running things at the "max" setting of anything. I could swap the jumper and use -6.5 sub trim, but not sure if it will make any difference.



Anyways, after setting both sub trims to -12 and adjusting gain on the subs to get back to the SPL level I was at before (went from about 12:00 on the gain knob to about 3:00) I did some more compression sweeps (although I can't show them to you because my laptop crashed while saving the file ). I gained a little bit more headroom, got up to 112db without significant compression. I should be able to get more from the T-18s, but I'll be damned if I know what to try next.

I might try moving them around some, but the back of the room really is the only place these beasts can live. FYI, I have tried a few other locations (one front/one rear, both front, one rear/one sidewall) and the both in the rear of the room has always provided the best response. They are currently in the back corners, I may try moving them away from the corners again and see what I get.


Quote:
I believe Alan has listened to his setup for the better part of 6mo without tinkering.
I did, and I was happy! Damn you for trying the MiniDSP again and being successful.

ahblaza likes this.
Alan P is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 07:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,735
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3660 Post(s)
Liked: 2428
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
Alan,

I'm a novice when it comes to REW and the MiniDSP, but I'm patient and determined. That said, I've been reading up on calibrations, REW, MiniDSP, and Jerry's guide along with other things on the Internet and I came across some information on the MiniDSP site and was wondering if it applies to your situation, since the T-18 is a sealed sub.

On the site, it talks about using a Linkwitz Transform filter and seems to help extend out the sub's capabilities using this compared to the standard application model. Have you looked at this or given it a try?

http://www.minidsp.com/applications/...witz-transform

Best of luck!
I have not done the Linkwitz Transform (I read about it a long time ago though), although the curve I currently have in the MiniDSP is very similar to the one shown for the transform....does that count?
Alan P is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 07:38 AM
Member
 
k1n3t1k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I have not done the Linkwitz Transform (I read about it a long time ago though), although the curve I currently have in the MiniDSP is very similar to the one shown for the transform....does that count?
Hah! You're asking the wrong guy, but I would suspect YES!

Is there a chance there may be cable attenuation occurring when using cheaper RCA cables with small gauges to account for the discrepancies between your measurements and Jerry's? Maybe his cable between the AVR and the MiniDSP was longer, reducing the output voltage some?

Just throwing ideas out!
k1n3t1k is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 07:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,735
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3660 Post(s)
Liked: 2428
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
Hah! You're asking the wrong guy, but I would suspect YES!

Is there a chance there may be cable attenuation occurring when using cheaper RCA cables with small gauges to account for the discrepancies between your measurements and Jerry's? Maybe his cable between the AVR and the MiniDSP was longer, reducing the output voltage some?

Just throwing ideas out!
That's a possibility....I do have some pretty long runs to my subs (35' and 50').

However, when I measured the output voltage it was with 1' RCAs plugged directly into the sub out jacks.

Maybe I'll measure the voltage at the end of the longer runs just to see. They are pretty beefy cables, albeit from Monoprice.
Alan P is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 08:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
Mike Butny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orland Park, Il
Posts: 987
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 301 Post(s)
Liked: 537
Fyi, this is a Facebook post from PSA.

Here is the final DSP shaping on the V3600i. This chart also includes a few different settings on the "room size" control too.
Remember, the "room size" only cuts. So the top curve is set to LARGE. I've found best overall sound quality in our office (about 4000 cu-ft) is with the room size set to about its mid-point on the rotation.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PSA.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	54.8 KB
ID:	782922  
oneeyeblind likes this.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000 Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
Mike Butny is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 08:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 9,289
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 3944
@ AlanP

What you have done is similar to the Linkwitz. Also you could probably try 5db instead of 8. That would give you 3db more headroom above 20hz and still be +/-3db down into the low teens. You will just have to experiment and find the best balance. I only said to try 8db because I knew it would bring the graph up so you were flat into the single digits, but remember any boost you apply down low is headroom you lose above the point of the low shelf filter. I fortunately had enough headroom to boost my low end.

I do not see you losing any headroom because of the mini dsp, you lost headroom from the low shelf filter. The mini will always show lower output levels then not being in the chain due to the subs seeing less input voltage. You have to compensate by turning the amp gains up and recalibrating. The kicker is can you hit the same levels without clipping? The test would be to turn all eq off in the dsp and run the same sweeps as you did without it in the chain, but make sure you recalibrate with it in the chain.

If the dsp is not clipping then the issue is your room. You seem to have some modal issue in your room that causes the subs to roll off earlier then the manufacturers rated +/-3db point. The XS15's were the same way. If you can not get it sorted by placement and are not happy with the current solutions, I think it would be wise to turn your large basement into separate rooms and make a nice small dedicated theater room. Or go back to how it was if you were happy.

Again, I still think if you are hitting 120 @ 30hz and above with no dsp, try 3-5db boost instead of 8 and that should bring your +/-3db point @ 12-15hz and you should still hit over 115db from 20-80hz.
Alan P, oneeyeblind and ahblaza like this.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html
basshead81 is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 08:40 AM
Member
 
k1n3t1k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
They are pretty beefy cables, albeit from Monoprice.
Yeah, Monoprice is solid stuff, usually. I order a LOT of cables from them, namely USB/VGA/DVI/DP/HDMI for computer/video setups at work and I've had a few hiccups with some of them. They use heavy wires, but I sometimes find the connection from the wire to the cable lead can be easily wiggled lose at times. Not saying that's the case for you, but I've found that not all cables are created equal!

I have a MiniDSP 2x4 I've been working on calibrating the last couple days and I just ordered an Anti-Mode 8033S-II from PSA yesterday to play with over the weekend. I'm going to calibrate my gear to the best of the abilities and see just how good the automatic capabilities from Anti-Mode truly are. I think I got everything figured out now, but it was after 10pm last night when I had my "Ah-hah!" moment and realized I was calibrating both subs together instead of individually to apply a separate correction config to each channel. Right now, my biggest struggle I'm facing is I am only getting 1-2dB of gain with my second sub and when I have just one turned on, it (audibly) has a much more detailed response and timber that I would expect. Turning on the other one (closer to the middle of the wall of the room, not corner loaded) reduces the detail in the reproduction, but you can feel the response from the slight dB gain.
k1n3t1k is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 08:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cesar123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,028
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked: 537
Alan, not sure if this is an option, but have you ever tried both T18s right behind you?
Alan P likes this.

Yippee-ki-yay...
cesar123 is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 08:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 9,289
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 3944
The base anti-mode is not on the same level as a mini dsp for calibrating multiple subs. You need the dual core for that. If you have a single sub then the base anti mode should work well but I do not see it doing things any better the XT32. Being you can try it for free, might as well give it a shot.
oneeyeblind likes this.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html
basshead81 is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 09:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
gbreda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 689
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Nope…. I can't support that!

You can't take this discussion somewhere else because then I have to go and track it down and it's much more convenient to have this wealth of information right here in the PSA sub thread (where it belongs).

I use all these technical posts to increase my understanding of this hobby and I have no interest in paying someone to professionally calibrate my system when I can do it myself and learn a lot along the way.

Besides, this thread gets real boring real fast when all it consists of is congratulating one another on new subs (as fun as that is to do). What makes this thread so good is the sharing of information that allows us to better our HT setups.

So keep the wealth of knowledge flowing.
X2 on this....although when they really get going on the technical side, I sometimes feel like Penny on Big Bang Theory. Hell things started making sense to her too as the years went on so I guess I have some hope too
mnc, ahblaza and Hopinater like this.
gbreda is online now  
Old 06-18-2015, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jhughy2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 1,774
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip61 View Post
I understand trying to get the most out of your equipement trust me i know because i did the same for my display and then i decided to get it professionally calibrated.
I can't disagree more. Especially with a display. I've invested over 40 hours in perfecting my primary display calibration. I don't think a professional would dedicate that amount of time and perfection without charging hundreds. There is no way a pro is going to be able to get to know your setup/system as intimately as you do.
oneeyeblind likes this.
jhughy2010 is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 11:51 AM
Member
 
F12Bwth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philly, PA
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 43
I usually do my own calibration, usually by eye. I made these to help. Started on my CRT's and worked my way up to my 8350 etc.






More http://imgur.com/a/9RNAu

Now back on topic.

SUBWOOFERS!!!!!
jhughy2010 likes this.
F12Bwth is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 01:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,735
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3660 Post(s)
Liked: 2428
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
@ AlanP

What you have done is similar to the Linkwitz. Also you could probably try 5db instead of 8. That would give you 3db more headroom above 20hz and still be +/-3db down into the low teens. You will just have to experiment and find the best balance. I only said to try 8db because I knew it would bring the graph up so you were flat into the single digits, but remember any boost you apply down low is headroom you lose above the point of the low shelf filter. I fortunately had enough headroom to boost my low end.

I do not see you losing any headroom because of the mini dsp, you lost headroom from the low shelf filter. The mini will always show lower output levels then not being in the chain due to the subs seeing less input voltage. You have to compensate by turning the amp gains up and recalibrating. The kicker is can you hit the same levels without clipping? The test would be to turn all eq off in the dsp and run the same sweeps as you did without it in the chain, but make sure you recalibrate with it in the chain.

If the dsp is not clipping then the issue is your room. You seem to have some modal issue in your room that causes the subs to roll off earlier then the manufacturers rated +/-3db point. The XS15's were the same way. If you can not get it sorted by placement and are not happy with the current solutions, I think it would be wise to turn your large basement into separate rooms and make a nice small dedicated theater room. Or go back to how it was if you were happy.

Again, I still think if you are hitting 120 @ 30hz and above with no dsp, try 3-5db boost instead of 8 and that should bring your +/-3db point @ 12-15hz and you should still hit over 115db from 20-80hz.
It's a living room, not a basement...and if you remember, I've considered building a wall to take it from 5K to 2.8K cubes....now that would be cool. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to wait at least a couple years before that can happen.

Very good point, it's the EQ that's probably eating up my headroom....anyways, I don't think I'm that worried about it. If I can get to -10MV without clipping or compression (and I can) I'm happy, I never listen louder than that.

I'm really enjoying the boost in the ULF, so thanks for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
Yeah, Monoprice is solid stuff, usually. I order a LOT of cables from them, namely USB/VGA/DVI/DP/HDMI for computer/video setups at work and I've had a few hiccups with some of them. They use heavy wires, but I sometimes find the connection from the wire to the cable lead can be easily wiggled lose at times. Not saying that's the case for you, but I've found that not all cables are created equal!

I have a MiniDSP 2x4 I've been working on calibrating the last couple days and I just ordered an Anti-Mode 8033S-II from PSA yesterday to play with over the weekend. I'm going to calibrate my gear to the best of the abilities and see just how good the automatic capabilities from Anti-Mode truly are. I think I got everything figured out now, but it was after 10pm last night when I had my "Ah-hah!" moment and realized I was calibrating both subs together instead of individually to apply a separate correction config to each channel. Right now, my biggest struggle I'm facing is I am only getting 1-2dB of gain with my second sub and when I have just one turned on, it (audibly) has a much more detailed response and timber that I would expect. Turning on the other one (closer to the middle of the wall of the room, not corner loaded) reduces the detail in the reproduction, but you can feel the response from the slight dB gain.
You've got a phase/time-alignment problem there. You should get close to +6db when you add the second sub. Do you have REW yet?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cesar123 View Post
Alan, not sure if this is an option, but have you ever tried both T18s right behind you?
Well, that's just crazy-talk right there.....or pure genius!

No, I have not tried that (purely for aesthetic reasons....I know, I know). I got nothing to lose, I'll give it a shot tonight!
ahblaza likes this.
Alan P is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 01:46 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 11,793
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I've invested over 40 hours in perfecting my primary display calibration. I don't think a professional would dedicate that amount of time and perfection without charging hundreds. There is no way a pro is going to be able to get to know your setup/system as intimately as you do.
They have invested thousands of dollars (test equipment) and hours long before they ever show up. Unless you own some exotic piece of equipment more than likely they will know it far better than you ever will as they have already "worked" on it countless times. I know the calibrator I have used with one look at the image would instantly tell me what I messed up even before he unloaded his equipment.
ahblaza and gbreda like this.

| Mitsubishi HC7900DW Projector | 16x9 120" Screen | 7.2.4 Boston Acoustics & Power Sound Audio | Yamaha RX-A3060 (on order) & AudioSource AMP110 | NVIDIA Shield | 20TB Media Server | TiVo
Charles R is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 02:20 PM
Member
 
k1n3t1k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You've got a phase/time-alignment problem there. You should get close to +6db when you add the second sub. Do you have REW yet?
Hell yeah I have REW, calibrated UMIK-1 and all; I'm setup, running measurements! I'm just skeptical of my actual numbers because they seem...not what I would expect 120+dB would sound like! I am not one to crank on the volume knob all the time and most of my TV viewing is between -30dB and -45dB with my Yamaha A-3040. With some music and movies, however, I let loose and it's not uncommon for me to hit -10, depending on how the tracks were recorded.

Anyway, I have played with the phasing adjustments on the amps to no avail. I've played a 40Hz tone last night at -20MV for a short time and they are loudest at their current setting of 0 degrees. I also played with the distance settings to each sub and verified that the further (+/- directions) I went away from their current spot, the less SPL I achieved. Is there anything else I could be missing/forgetting before I do some crawling for a new location?

I know in the MiniDSP config, the delay seems more precise. Currently, my subs are equidistant from the MLP at the front of the room, next to the LR speakers. I'm unsure if the MiniDSP delay/phasing will be any different than what I am able to currently test.

Last edited by k1n3t1k; 06-18-2015 at 02:40 PM.
k1n3t1k is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 02:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,735
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3660 Post(s)
Liked: 2428
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
Hell yeah I have REW, calibrated UMIK-1 and all; I'm setup, running measurements! I'm just skeptical of my actual numbers because they seem...not what I would expect 120+dB would sound like! I am not one to crank on the volume knob all the time and most of my TV viewing is between -30dB and -45dB with my Yamaha A-3040. With some music and movies, however, I let loose and it's not uncommon for me to hit -10, depending on how the tracks were recorded.

Anyway, I have played with the phasing adjustments on the amps to no avail. I've played a 40Hz tone last night at -20MV for a short time and they are loudest at their current setting of 0 degrees. I also played with the distance settings to each sub and verified that the further (+/- directions) I went away from their current spot, the less SPL I achieved. Is there anything else I could be missing/forgetting before I do some crawling for a new location?

I know in the MiniDSP config, the delay seems more precise. Currently, my subs are equidistant from the MLP at the front of the room, next to the LR speakers. I'm unsure if the MiniDSP delay/phasing will be any different than what I am able to currently test.
If you have XT32 and SubEQ HT (and I think you do), you should be leaving the phase on both subs at 0. SubEQ HT will time-align the subs better than any phase control ever could.

So, with both subs at 0, when you turn one off how much of a drop in SPL is there??

Let's see some measurements!!
ahblaza and jhughy2010 like this.
Alan P is offline  
Old 06-18-2015, 02:59 PM
Member
 
k1n3t1k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Alan, posting my measurements here is so intimidating - you guys have super flat lines and mine resembles the Alps! I'll share my stuff later tonight when I get home.

The Yamaha has YPAO and from what I can tell, is decent from 200Hz and up, but it was complete trash when calibrating the subs. I don't think it really did much of anything as I was able to use REW earlier this week and tame some +12dB nodes in the 40Hz region! I was able to copy the YPAO-FLAT to the MANUAL EQ setting and adjust the subs individually in there and verified I was making good progress with REW, so at least I can do that. (Don't think you can accomplish that with D&M) I've been very pleased with Yamaha before, but the YPAO is just frustrating to look at the results on a graph. I almost bought a Marantz last fall and, in some ways, wishing I had. On the bright side, the distances and levels seem to be spot on with YPAO and my speakers themselves look great. It's just the pesky low-end that it didn't seem to touch at all. The YPAO applied two bands on the EQ for the subs, 1 of which wasn't even in the crossover range!?! (250Hz) I run mine at 120Hz as I like the sound more.
k1n3t1k is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 

Tags
Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off