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Old 06-18-2015, 10:39 PM
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I think the v3600 is a little to much for $2299. I considered it at pre order pricing. I think that price was perfect for this speaker. Above 2k is a little to much in my opinion.
Everybody is entitled to there own opinion. I think you should look at the cost of other dual 18" subs and then see if you still have that same opinion. I think its a great deal myself.
I would have purchased 2 of these if I had known they was working on coming out with new models back in January. But I remember Tom saying they weren't going to build any 18 inch subs, at least not anytime soon because off all the ones they had weren't that old. Oh well, it all worked out well anyway. I would like to see them offer some veneer options on there subs. I think that would be icing on the cake.


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Old 06-18-2015, 10:45 PM
 
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Everybody is entitled to there own opinion. I think you should look at the cost of other dual 18" subs and then see if you still have that same opinion. I think its a great deal myself.
I would have purchased 2 of these if I had known they was working on coming out with new models back in January. But I remember Tom saying they weren't going to build any 18 inch subs, at least not anytime soon because off all the ones they had weren't that old. Oh well, it all worked out well anyway. I would like to see them offer some veneer options on there subs. I think that would be icing on the cake.
These types of comments drive me crazy. Why would you want to pay more. Noting against Tom and PSA, they are doing a great job at marketing the Sub. Do you really think he was losing money at $1799, the answer is NO. The sub is $2299 now, for a couple hundred more you can get a Seaton with more juice and more finishes. The V3600 is a monster and I'm sure will be a great sub. At that price range its competing with established subs.
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Old 06-18-2015, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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These types of comments drive me crazy. Why would you want to pay more. Noting against Tom and PSA, they are doing a great job at marketing the Sub. Do you really think he was losing money at $1799, the answer is NO. The sub is $2299 now, for a couple hundred more you can get a Seaton with more juice and more finishes. The V3600 is a monster and I'm sure will be a great sub. At that price range its competing with established subs.
And for a bit more you can get a T-18.....
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Old 06-18-2015, 10:54 PM
 
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And for a bit more you can get a T-18.....
The V3600 at $2299 with other finishes, that would make more sense, But even then it would still be competing with Seaton, JTR, etc...Looking at the spec's and at $2299 it just doesn't make sense when comparing to other subs.
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tristian0507 View Post
These types of comments drive me crazy. Why would you want to pay more. Noting against Tom and PSA, they are doing a great job at marketing the Sub. Do you really think he was losing money at $1799, the answer is NO. The sub is $2299 now, for a couple hundred more you can get a Seaton with more juice and more finishes. The V3600 is a monster and I'm sure will be a great sub. At that price range its competing with established subs.
Tom and Jim have been building subs for 20yrs. I do not think they need to establish anything. They already filled the second production run of orders and are already on the third...besides you are comparing apples to oranges. The 3000i is a direct competitor with the SubM. The Terraform XL would be a better comparison for the 3600i. Now compare prices.
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:19 PM
 
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The V3600 at $2299 with other finishes, that would make more sense, But even then it would still be competing with Seaton, JTR, etc...Looking at the spec's and at $2299 it just doesn't make sense when comparing to other subs.
At $1799 is was an attractive price. Based on spec's and price there wasn't anything out there that would touch it. Now at $2299 its in a different ball game. I'm sure the true PSA die hard-loyal customer wont have any issue spending $2299, that's going to happen its a matter of when. But what about the new customers, why should they buy PSA vs. Seaton, or PSA vs. JTR, etc.... Talking only in regards to the V3600. The price just doesn't make sense and that's based on what's out there. Now if the subs were similar in spec's and around the same price range, customer service will come into place. And PSA will make a big argument on winning that one. The numbers don't make sense to me.
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:23 PM
 
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Tom and Jim have been building subs for 20yrs. I do not think they need to establish anything. They already filled the second production run of orders and are already on the third...besides you are comparing apples to oranges. The 3000i is a direct competitor with the SubM. The Terraform XL would be a better comparison for the 3600i. Now compare prices.
Here you go The price comparison is not there based on spec's. 20yrs of experience, that's great! How many people know that? Yes you need to have something established, products, customer service, in order to succeed in any business.
Also,
The 3000i is not in the same category as the SubM. As much as I love PSA products lets be realistic. Much more juice...

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Old 06-18-2015, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tristian0507 View Post
These types of comments drive me crazy. Why would you want to pay more. Noting against Tom and PSA, they are doing a great job at marketing the Sub. Do you really think he was losing money at $1799, the answer is NO. The sub is $2299 now, for a couple hundred more you can get a Seaton with more juice and more finishes. The V3600 is a monster and I'm sure will be a great sub. At that price range its competing with established subs.
I agree with PSA still making money at $1799, if they were not they would of never sold it at that price. I have said it before and I will say it again, at $1900- $1949 they would have a hard time keeping up with demand that's how many units they would be selling. When I was in the market for a subwoofer I chose PSA for a few reasons and 1 of them was their subs offer a lot of performance for the money. We can sit here and speculate on what PSA should sell the V3600 for but at the end of the day they need to do whats best for business. I have already told Tom, I have the V3600 as sub of the year. PSA should feel proud of what they have accomplished in the last 1-2 years.

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Old 06-18-2015, 11:45 PM
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Why should new customers buy PSA...geez lets stop and think.

Umm 20yrs experience, made in USA, 5yr warranty, free 30 day in home trial, top notch customer service, a solid website with measurements and data for each product, and the least lead time of all ID companies except SVS.

So no it's not hear I go, it's here you go again... And I would be willing to put a 100 dollar wager that the 3000i can hold it's own next to a SubM. 1700 watts vs 2400 watts is roughly a 1 db difference in output all else equal. Doubling power equals a 3db gain so do the math. Fwiw You would need to purchase the slave unit to drive the Speaker Power amp to its full 4000 watt rating for the SubM's. Look at the price of the older 1000watt Ice Power SubM. 1595.00 plus shipping. The 3000i is steal for what you are getting...so is RA's Gamma 218.

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Old 06-18-2015, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Why should new customers buy PSA...geez lets stop and think.

Umm 20yrs experience, made in USA, 5yr warranty, free 30 day in home trial, top notch customer service, a solid website with measurements and data for each product, and the least lead time of all ID companies except SVS.

So no it's not hear I go, it's here you go again... And I would be willing to put a 100 dollar wager that the 3000i can hold it's own next to a SubM. 1700 watts vs 2400 watts is roughly a 1.5 db difference in output. You would need to purchase the slave unit to drive the Speaker Power amp to its full 4000 watt rating for the SubM's. Look at the price of the older 1000watt Ice Power SubM. 1595.00 plus shipping.
One more thing that is a little intangible. From pictures and impressions a very good satin, matte black finish. I know for some (not seaton as they don't offer that finish) getting a product without visible seams or inconsistent finish has a been a problem.
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:51 PM
 
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I agree with PSA still making money at $1799, if they were not they would of never sold it at that price. I have said it before and I will say it again, at $1900- $1949 they would have a hard time keeping up with demand that's how many units they would be selling. When I was in the market for a subwoofer I chose PSA for a few reasons and 1 of them was their subs offer a lot of performance for the money. We can sit here and speculate on what PSA should sell the V3600i for but at the end of the day they need to do whats best for business. I have already told Tom, I have the V3600i as sub of the year. PSA should feel proud of what they have accomplished in the last 1-2 years.
What you wrote I can respect and appreciate, Instead of these biased replies. I agree PSA has accomplished allot. And they are doing what's best for business. If they make an increase and still get volume, it was a great decision. I don't think it is, but I'm sure they will know with time.
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:53 PM
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Facts and Bias are not the same...nice try tho.
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:59 PM
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Here you go The price comparison is not there based on spec's. 20yrs of experience, that's great! How many people know that? Yes you need to have something established, products, customer service, in order to succeed in any business.
Also,
The 3000i is not in the same category as the SubM. As much as I love PSA products lets be realistic. Much more juice...
You do know that Tom Vodhanel is the V in SVS right? Most people in this thread know this. This is why its unfair to consider PSA a new comer.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:01 AM
 
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Why should new customers buy PSA...geez lets stop and think.

Umm 20yrs experience, made in USA, 5yr warranty, free 30 day in home trial, top notch customer service, a solid website with measurements and data for each product, and the least lead time of all ID companies except SVS.

So no it's not hear I go, it's here you go again... And I would be willing to put a 100 dollar wager that the 3000i can hold it's own next to a SubM. 1700 watts vs 2400 watts is roughly a 1 db difference in output all else equal. Doubling power equals a 3db gain so do the math. Fwiw You would need to purchase the slave unit to drive the Speaker Power amp to its full 4000 watt rating for the SubM's. Look at the price of the older 1000watt Ice Power SubM. 1595.00 plus shipping. The 3000i is steal for what you are getting...so is RA's Gamma 218.
Dude I get it your a die hard loyal customer. But lets be real, lets make a fair comparison. People at Seaton would be laughing at your comment. My first choice is PSA for obvious reasons, but I'm open to other options. Its called free market! As much as I love USA products, it doesn't mean anything this day in age. People say is was made in Germany or Japan and they get all excited about that. People in here will pay attention to what you said, but average Joe won't. A Best Buy customer doesn't know 1% what you know about subs, but that's where the money is. The V3600 doesn't make sense over 2K. As a customer that's common sense. If Tom and team hit that will be a success for them. This is a business decision to increase profit, don't blame them for that. I respect it in many levels. Time will tell if the price will be a success, I say its not based not the competition for this particular product.

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Old 06-19-2015, 12:04 AM
 
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You do know that Tom Vodhanel is the V in SVS right? Most people in this thread know this. This is why its unfair to consider PSA a new comer.
I know that and I mean no disrespect to Tom and Company. But there is MORE people that don't then do. And PSA is a new company a very good company, but its new to Sub World.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:05 AM - Thread Starter
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You do know that Tom Vodhanel is the V in SVS right? Most people in this thread know this. This is why its unfair to consider PSA a new comer.
Not trying to add anymore full to the fire. But just to make sure Jim gets credit, Jim Farina (co-founded PSA with Tom) and Stephen Ponte created the Ultra 13 series while at SVS.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:07 AM
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What you wrote I can respect and appreciate, Instead of these biased replies. I agree PSA has accomplished allot. And they are doing what's best for business. If they make an increase and still get volume, it was a great decision. I don't think it is, but I'm sure they will know with time.

I do see your point with the price though, as it's a $500 jump in price now.

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Old 06-19-2015, 12:32 AM
 
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Not trying to add anymore full to the fire. But just to make sure Jim gets credit, Jim Farina (co-founded PSA with Tom) and Stephen Ponte created the Ultra 13 series while at SVS.
I know that and many people from this thread are fully aware of this fact, but not the average Joe. And the average Joe is who will bring in the $$$. Can a company survive from loyal customers just upgrading. I think not. You have to bring in new customers into the system. And the V3600 doesn't do that in my opinion at $2299. It should be priced under 2K, really at $1799.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:39 AM
 
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I do see your point with the price though, as it's a $500 jump in price now.
I mean I get it, I don't agree with it for the simple fact that it cant compete in that price range, especially knowing what's out there. Again, I'm a fan of PSA, but the V3600 at $2299 it makes me look elsewhere and so will many customers. I get the whole pre-order sale, I get it! I get the fact that PSA is taking a shot at this price range. Again, time will tell. I don't think it will have success at $2299, but I may be wrong. I certainly wont buy it at $2299, now if it goes down to $1799 again I may consider it.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:48 AM
 
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Facts and Bias are not the same...nice try tho.
Your next comment will be I'm trolling. Guess what your a Fanboy. I get it your a loyal customer and I can respect that, but not your other nonsense. Your sub comparisons are ridiculous. As mush as I can give PSA props, I will do the same to other companies as Seaton, JTR, HSU, etc... Your one of those that either has Ford or Chevy and doesn't look past the brand and other products. Your knowledge about subs, hey my respect. Financial side in customers view, well not in the same level.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I mean I get it, I don't agree with it for the simple fact that it cant compete in that price range, especially knowing what's out there. Again, I'm a fan of PSA, but the V3600 at $2299 it makes me look elsewhere and so will many customers. I get the whole pre-order sale, I get it! I get the fact that PSA is taking a shot at this price range. Again, time will tell. I don't think it will have success at $2299, but I may be wrong. I certainly wont buy it at $2299, now if it goes down to $1799 again I may consider it.
So what are you looking at from $1799 to $2299 that is ported? The only other options in that price range that I know of are the JTR 1400 ($1,999 plus shipping-cannot be bought without contacting JTR) and the Reaction Audio ECHO 18 ($1299- with a 3-5 week lead time but includes shipping).

The SVS PB Ultra 13 at $1999 is not a performance competitor sense for $300 more you get double the output or more throughout the bass range and the at $1049 the V1500 is very close. The only reason to buy the ultra now are aesthetic reasons.


I'm asking more because I'm curious what people are looking to buy in this price bracket.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:11 AM
 
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So what are you looking at from $1799 to $2299 that is ported? The only other options in that price range that I know of are the JTR 1400 ($1,999 plus shipping-cannot be bought without contacting JTR) and the Reaction Audio ECHO 18 ($1299- with a 3-5 week lead time but includes shipping).

The SVS PB Ultra 13 at $1999 is not a performance competitor sense for $300 more you get double the output or more throughout the bass range and the at $1049 the V1500 is very close. The only reason to buy the ultra now are aesthetic reasons.

So the Reaction and the JTR are the only options in the same ballpark... And there are pros and cons to each brand. They don't magically invalidate PSA's value.
That's not how average Joe will look at it. SVS- well known and as to PB ultra13 MANY happy customers will argue your point. Seaton- couple hundred more and you get the Mercedes. JTR- Same point as Seaton. I'm giving my point of view as a customer noting more noting less. At $2299, Im more interested in SVS ultra 13, SubM, and JTR. Why SVS, well cost less and its an established sub (I agree its overpriced, but its less then V3600). Why Seaton and JTR, look at the spec's, for a couple hundred more you can get a highly respected sub at that price range.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a heads up, Some guys in the DIY forum are having a GTG with a lot of DIY gear. Plus some PSA gear including speakers and subs. Keep an eye the DIY section they might have some good comparisons to offer.

GTG meet Plainfield Il. (Chicago land area)

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Old 06-19-2015, 05:10 AM
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Why should new customers buy PSA...geez lets stop and think.

Umm 20yrs experience, made in USA, 5yr warranty, free 30 day in home trial, top notch customer service, a solid website with measurements and data for each product, and the least lead time of all ID companies except SVS.

So no it's not hear I go, it's here you go again... And I would be willing to put a 100 dollar wager that the 3000i can hold it's own next to a SubM. 1700 watts vs 2400 watts is roughly a 1 db difference in output all else equal. Doubling power equals a 3db gain so do the math. Fwiw You would need to purchase the slave unit to drive the Speaker Power amp to its full 4000 watt rating for the SubM's. Look at the price of the older 1000watt Ice Power SubM. 1595.00 plus shipping. The 3000i is steal for what you are getting...so is RA's Gamma 218.
The S3000i really is alot of sub for the money. Although I am running 2 of them now, I went 2 weeks with only 1 in the best sub spot in the room-which was nearfield. This was the same spot that my non se XS30 was placed . The S3000i really had all of the output that I needed in a room that is very much open to the rest of the first floor while the XS30 had maybe half of that in comparison-there was no contest there at all. The tactile difference between the 2 was amazing.

If I didnt get a good price for the dual and a great trade in value on the XS30, 1 would of sufficed especially at higher output. As a pair, they really shine at lower volumes with a much fuller and even sound in the room but that is more of a result of dual subs.
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Old 06-19-2015, 05:23 AM
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I've offered to loan my XS30se for a local GTG the July 4th weekend...since I cant be there. List of subs present that day will include a SubM, RA 218(s)...other potential subs may include Hsu, Rythmik & even JL audio. The primary focus will be solely on the dual opposed designs...sure wish I could be there but I have another more pressing commitment that day....

Personally I have zero concern in loaning my sub for this....within its limits it should preform admirably...IMO.
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Old 06-19-2015, 06:54 AM
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I was able to get off work today. Anxiously awaiting FedEx!
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NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, DUAL PSA XS30SE's
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Old 06-19-2015, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristian0507 View Post
I mean I get it, I don't agree with it for the simple fact that it cant compete in that price range, especially knowing what's out there. Again, I'm a fan of PSA, but the V3600 at $2299 it makes me look elsewhere and so will many customers. I get the whole pre-order sale, I get it! I get the fact that PSA is taking a shot at this price range. Again, time will tell. I don't think it will have success at $2299, but I may be wrong. I certainly wont buy it at $2299, now if it goes down to $1799 again I may consider it.
You are only speculating about what other customers will do because you are upset at the price. How come you didn't buy it when it was on sale? You have the freedom to buy whatever you want. The market will decide what PSA will sell the sub at, or just discontinue it if they cant sell it and make a profit. I think the price is way cheaper than buying 2 single 18" driver subs and stacking them. So if you bought 2 for $4600, what can you get 4 single 18" subs for? You would have to get them for less than $1150 ea.


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Old 06-19-2015, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by tristian0507 View Post
I mean I get it, I don't agree with it for the simple fact that it cant compete in that price range, especially knowing what's out there. Again, I'm a fan of PSA, but the V3600 at $2299 it makes me look elsewhere and so will many customers. I get the whole pre-order sale, I get it! I get the fact that PSA is taking a shot at this price range. Again, time will tell. I don't think it will have success at $2299, but I may be wrong. I certainly wont buy it at $2299, now if it goes down to $1799 again I may consider it.
I really don't see what the problem is with Tristan having questions about the price point of the V3600. The reality is none of us know enough to talk with certainty about what the price point should be. We just need to admit that fact. I think perhaps the problem is the way Tristan said it.

Tristan you make a definitive statement by saying it's a fact that the V3600 can't compete in that price range and then later you say you might be wrong. If you are stating a FACT then you CAN'T be wrong. It's impossible to be wrong when something is a definitive truth which is what a fact is. I think the wisest thing you said was "time will tell". Because that is a fact.

However, I have no problem with you questioning whether the V3600 priced at $2299 might be too much. Perhaps it is. Perhaps it's not. The bottom line is you don't know for sure it is and others don't know for sure it's not. But I trust Tom and Jim know what they are doing, they know their industry and business much better than any of us do. If they need to make adjustments they will.

FWIW, I have no idea if $2299 for the V3600 is right or not but I wouldn't buy it at that price. But that's based on personal finances and not whether it's over priced or not. I simply can't convince my wife spending over $2k on a subwoofer is a good purchase.

Last edited by Hopinater; 06-19-2015 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 06-19-2015, 07:18 AM
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The fact is, as far as I know, the V3600 is the ONLY dual 18 inch ported sub on the market. All other dual front facing subs that are ported that I have seen is 15 inch, and all 18 inch models are sealed. So PSA has a one of a kind sub. So you cant compare it with any others.
PSA only has 2 18 inch subs. V3600 and the T18. You CAN NOT compare cost of a SVS sub with a single 13 inch driver to one with dual 18 inch drivers.
And for the ones that dont know and think SVS is far better, Tom and Jim came from SVS.


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Old 06-19-2015, 07:23 AM
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You won't get any arguments from me, I bought the V3600. There was no way I was going to let it get by me at $1799.
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