Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 679 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20341 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Thanks, Jeffrey. I appreciate you chiming in and giving me your honest feedback. That was a similar impression Billy p had concerning the XS30 and XS30se. Well worth the driver upgrade, cleaner for music and a step up for movies. I also expect the S3000i to be a step up from the XS30se, so perhaps going from the XS30 to the S3000i might be significant indeed. I think impressions are based upon room size and how far one is sitting from the sub, so it could be a noticeable improvement to some, and perhaps a far more noticeable improvement to others.

As some of you know, I auditioned the 24-inch Mariana from Deep Sea Sound at the audio show in SoCal. Was David’s monster sealed design better than my poor little XS30? You bet, and I was highly impressed. Was it a night/day difference? Sorry, I cannot say that, but it might (or could) have been if I listened to it in my home and not the hotel room at the audio show. Then again, a fairer sound and price comparison might be three S3000i’s vs. one Mariana . I will say the Mariana passed my music tests when it really wasn’t setup for music. And a big thank you to David for allowing me to play these tracks. This capability came as a pleasant and totally unexpected surprise. But several people here mentioned that both the XS30se and S3000i passed this test with flying colors, where several subs, including my XS30, could not.

Fortunately, I’m using the XS30 for 90% movie content. Almost all my music is played through my Maggies and the Ultra. And even though I have laminate flooring over concrete slab in the movie room, I do get surprising tactile feel transferred to my feet and especially the couch. And I sit about 10 feet away. The only reason I’m contemplating a change is for music and a cleaner presentation. I do occasional play music through the EMPs and XS30, and I have well over two dozen concert videos. If it weren’t for that, I probably wouldn’t be looking. So right now I’m going through the motions of seeing what is available — I never make quick decisions .
Drussell, some very good points are made in your statements-my xs30 and the single 3000i were both about 3 feet from the sofa and on a suspended floor with a basement below. As duals, both subs are now about 9 feet from the listening area and really kicking butt!

FWIW, I would love to hear someone test a similar switch on a slab like you have.

I am envious of your demoing the Mariana-that must have been a treat for sure !!

Regarding decision making time frame, I too am the same-to the point that it drives my girlfriend nuts sometimes as she can be more opposite in that respect. I think that if I ever walked into a store, bought something over $50 by just picking it off the shelf, paying for it and then using it immediately without researching "other options" she would either keel over or have me committed because something is definitely wrong
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post #20342 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 11:30 AM
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I think my post got deleted...

I was messing around Wednesday with REW and miniDSP for the first time. I couldn't get ASIO to work at all and even the Java drivers were a little wonky at times. I ended up getting it work for the most part though. I used this guide to get the miniDSP up and the subs level matched. Not sure if I did it right though because after running audyssey it set the subs at +8. After turning the input gain in miniDSP back to 0 and rerunning audyssey it set them at +5.5. Still not where I want to be... I thought getting the subs to 75db would result in audyssey setting them at 0. Is that not true?

What is the correct order I should be doing things?
1. REW + EQ
2. audyssey
3. house curve?

Also, I have a huge dip at 80-90Hz when I reincorporated my mains back in. I'm assuming this is something I need to mess with delay to fix? Everything is crossed at either 100 or 120 in my AVR.

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post #20343 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by moussaka View Post
I think my post got deleted...

I was messing around Wednesday with REW and miniDSP for the first time. I couldn't get ASIO to work at all and even the Java drivers were a little wonky at times. I ended up getting it work for the most part though. I used this guide to get the miniDSP up and the subs level matched. Not sure if I did it right though because after running audyssey it set the subs at +8. After turning the input gain in miniDSP back to 0 and rerunning audyssey it set them at +5.5. Still not where I want to be... I thought getting the subs to 75db would result in audyssey setting them at 0. Is that not true?

What is the correct order I should be doing things?
1. REW + EQ
2. audyssey
3. house curve?

Also, I have a huge dip at 80-90Hz when I reincorporated my mains back in. I'm assuming this is something I need to mess with delay to fix? Everything is crossed at either 100 or 120 in my AVR.

You want to try and get your sub trim in the negative numbers if at all possible. Preferably around -6 to -8 to allow for plenty of room to run the sub hot without going over 0db.

There are two camps when it comes to external EQ + Audyssey; 1) EQ before so that Audyssey has less work to do, 2) EQ after to tailor the sound to your preference (i.e. adding a house curve). I'm in the EQ post-Audyssey camp.

That dip from 80-90hz will most likely fall into line once you do the sub distance tweak.
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post #20344 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 11:44 AM
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yeah, before adding the 2nd sub and miniDSP I had audyssey set the sub a around -5 or so. That is where I want to get back to. What is the point of level matching to 75db if audyssey has to turn them up higher anyways? I'm not sure what doing that is accomplishing. Should I level match to like 90db or something instead to get audyssey level down to negatives?

I'll try audyssey first and EQ after tonight and see how that works.

I hadn't seen that distance tweak before, thanks.

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post #20345 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 12:53 PM
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Looks like I have to summarize my impressions of the V3600 so anyone that is interested and may have missed it can get an idea of the subs capabilities. I had already done this last night in a little more detail but it got deleted in the latest purge. So I'll recap.

Once I got the sub dialed in I played bass heavy scenes from WWZ, Ender's Game, Nemo and Inception just to get an idea of what the sub can do. I also played some music tracks that I felt would give me an idea of how well the V3600 can do music.

Regarding music:
It was as I expected, the V3600 plays music wonderfully. It's bass is clean and tight and clear. I didn't notice any difference in the sound quality at all from my dual XV15se's, the big sub can do music very well.

Regarding dynamic bass scenes in movies:
WOW!!!! The rocket launch scene from Ender's Game was incredible. It had my couch shaking and my HT is in the basement on a cement slab and the V3600 is 14 feet away and I was only listening at -14. That means the sub produces some serious tactile feel on a cement slab from a distance.

The scene from Nemo was a lot of fun, I felt like I was one of the fish in the tank because the whole room echoed as Darla tapped her finger on the tank. The Inception and WWZ scenes were also over the top. It was like I was watching all these scenes for the first time.

I had a feeling I was going to experience some incredible bass when I ordered the sub but I really had no idea just how powerful it would be. The V3600 has honestly surpassed all my expectations. It's scary good.

Here's a pic of the sub in it's new home.
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post #20346 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 01:24 PM
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So I took delivery of a single S3000i yesterday! It was painful to have to go to work after receiving it, but the wait was surely worth it.

We actually tested it at my neighbor's house next door while he awaits the delivery of his V3600i. His house is identical to mine, but reversed floor plan, but should have identical or nearly identical room response. The testing area is the basement living room, which is about 3,000 cubic feet, concrete flooring with carpet, with a large hallway that leads to the upstairs area, so it's difficult to get serious compression since there are no doors to seal the listening space.

Unhooking and moving the 'old' DIY Dayton 12" Ultimax/SPA1000 amp took no effort at all. Actually, moving the S3000i by yourself is not terribly difficult. As large as it is, I had no problems lifting it off the truck for my ~70 year old FedEx delivery guy! He was very, very happy that I helped him move it that day.

For reference, I run a pair of SVS SB13-Ultras at my house for the last 1.5 years or so. I have been very pleased with them, but I have always wanted something beefier to help with the low end of things. I am a music fanatic, to say the least, so music reproduction is always #1 in my book. I have been a fan of the "JL sound" ever since my car audio days, but could not live with myself spending what they are asking for their home subwoofers! The demos I have heard are very good, but the price tags are just appalling to me and not worth it.

My friend is a big ULF fan and I consider him a first-degree bass-head! If it's not shaking the hairs on your head, then it's not big enough or loud enough. The first movie we played was Tron: Legacy. I must say, the aperture scene floored him as he has been struggling to control the LFE for a very long time and has dealt with the drivers bottoming out on big scenes at loud volumes. When the ships fly overhead in that movie, it just rumbles your entire chest - the room becomes alive! It's such a crazy and intense feeling to describe. We played several other ULF heavyweight titles including War of the Worlds, World War Z, Edge of Tomorrow, and Transformers. The bass was simply over-the-top insanity! The response was very 'tactile' and punchy - yet, subsonic frequencies shook the house and tested the durability of the foundation. I literally have no idea how you guys have standing walls after punishing your homes with multiple T-18, V3600i, or even the S3000i!!! The glasses in the cupboards upstairs were zinging to the bass notes from a few of my favorite songs - his wife is worried for their China collection. Little does she know that the next sub to enter the basement ships via TRUCK FREIGHT on a pallet and is nearly double the weight! At least he has a comfy couch to sleep on if things go sour for a few days... Once he gets his V3600i, we are going to team them up (I know, not ideal to do ported and sealed) to have some SPL fun!

I won't be doing any direct music comparisons just yet against my SVS, but our first impressions left our jaws on the floor. In, absolutely, no way have my pair of SB13-Ultras ever even come close to the sheer output of the single S3000i. Simply put, it is just in another league. I find the PSA comparison chart laughable, saying the S3000i is about 2.6x the output of a single SB13U. I haven't hook up my UMIK yet, but it has to be far more than that. Playing a 5Hz tone from REW on the S3000i sounds like what I imagine taking a jackhammer to your house would be like. 5Hz on the 2xSB13U does nothing really audible or make my house squeal at all. 10, 15, and 20Hz are all the same way - overwhelming and leaves you in a state of awe. The opening scene of EoT cannot compare - I thought my SVS sounded great, but again, the S3000i is just in another league and is extremely different.

That said, I'm not hating on my SVS at all. I have really enjoyed them and am not sure if I'll even sell them. If I do, it'll likely just be 1 and I'll move it up to another part of the house with my Paradigm speakers and get a second S3000i for my music/theater area.

Does anyone know if the V3600i and T-18 ship with seatbelts? If not, they should, because even this lone S3000i is one hell of a ride!

More to come later next week.
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post #20347 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Looks like I have to summarize my impressions of the V3600 so anyone that is interested and may have missed it can get an idea of the subs capabilities.

Once I got the sub dialed in I played bass heavy scenes from WWZ, Ender's Game, Nemo and Inception just to get an idea of what the sub can do. I also played some music tracks that I felt would give me an idea of how well the V3600 can do music.

Regarding music:
It was as I expected, the V3600 plays music wonderfully. It's bass is clean and tight and clear. I didn't notice any difference in the sound quality at all from my dual XV15se's, the big sub can do music very well.

Regarding dynamic bass scenes in movies:
WOW!!!! The rocket launch scene from Ender's Game was incredible. It had my couch shaking and my HT is in the basement on a cement slab and the V3600 is 14 feet away and I was only listening at -14. That means the sub produces some serious tactile feel on a cement slab from a distance.

The scene from Nemo was a lot of fun, I felt like I was one of the fish in the tank because the whole room echoed as Darla tapped her finger on the tank. The Inception and WWZ scenes were also over the top. It was like I was watching all these scenes for the first time.

I had a feeling I was going to experience some incredible bass when I ordered the sub but I really had no idea just how powerful it would be. The V3600 has honestly surpassed all my expectations. It's scary good.

Here's a pic of the sub in it's new home.
Nice looking sub for its size. Wish I could partake in the "free" shipping trials, but alas, the price of paradise.

But..........................I like the keezer MUCH better. What's on tap?
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post #20348 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 01:37 PM
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The V3600 has honestly surpassed all my expectations. It's scary good.

That's great news Hop! Glad you finally got to enjoy the beast. I wonder how long it will take until you want another?
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post #20349 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
So I took delivery of a single S3000i yesterday! It was painful to have to go to work after receiving it, but the wait was surely worth it.

We actually tested it at my neighbor's house next door while he awaits the delivery of his V3600i.

Congrats! Tom and the boys have outdone themselves with these new subs.

I look forward to hearing your comparison of the two once the 3600 arrives. A little tip, compare them at his house instead of yours! Let him deal with the angry wife.
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post #20350 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Looks like I have to summarize my impressions of the V3600 so anyone that is interested and may have missed it can get an idea of the subs capabilities.

Once I got the sub dialed in I played bass heavy scenes from WWZ, Ender's Game, Nemo and Inception just to get an idea of what the sub can do. I also played some music tracks that I felt would give me an idea of how well the V3600 can do music.

Regarding music:
It was as I expected, the V3600 plays music wonderfully. It's bass is clean and tight and clear. I didn't notice any difference in the sound quality at all from my dual XV15se's, the big sub can do music very well.

Regarding dynamic bass scenes in movies:
WOW!!!! The rocket launch scene from Ender's Game was incredible. It had my couch shaking and my HT is in the basement on a cement slab and the V3600 is 14 feet away and I was only listening at -14. That means the sub produces some serious tactile feel on a cement slab from a distance.

The scene from Nemo was a lot of fun, I felt like I was one of the fish in the tank because the whole room echoed as Darla tapped her finger on the tank. The Inception and WWZ scenes were also over the top. It was like I was watching all these scenes for the first time.

I had a feeling I was going to experience some incredible bass when I ordered the sub but I really had no idea just how powerful it would be. The V3600 has honestly surpassed all my expectations. It's scary good.

Here's a pic of the sub in it's new home.
Looks great Hop, love the tapper too. I got a question as I'm a power freak and I have multiply 20's ( circuits ) in my theater and have all my audio-video-subs-lights on their own separate circuits. I see you have a power strip on the floor, do you have your tapper and sub plugged into that together? I remember when I had my stuff in the living room at the old house I had my AV plugged into a Monster power strip and my sub plugged straight into the wall, I plugged my ( old ) mirage bps400 sub into the power strip with all my other equipment and there was a very noticeable decrease in performance. I assume the power strip was limiting the current. Is the beast plugged straight into the wall or a power strip?
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post #20351 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 01:56 PM
 
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As some of you know, I auditioned the 24-inch Mariana from Deep Sea Sound at the audio show in SoCal. Was David’s monster sealed design better than my poor little XS30? You bet, and I was highly impressed. Was it a night/day difference? Sorry, I cannot say that, but it might (or could) have been if I listened to it in my home and not the hotel room at the audio show.
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I am envious of your demoing the Mariana-that must have been a treat for sure !!
I will let you guys know how they compare to the s3000i, I have (2) 24 Mariana on order.

Chris
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post #20352 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:00 PM
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Congrats! Tom and the boys have outdone themselves with these new subs.

I look forward to hearing your comparison of the two once the 3600 arrives. A little tip, compare them at his house instead of yours! Let him deal with the angry wife.
Thank you! And hell yes, the PSA crew is a talented bunch for sure. I am very confident that this group will be around for a long, long time.

The 3600 will be the first serious ported sub I've ever heard in a home theater. Ironically, most of my friends only have floor standing tower speakers with no sub! My brother has a $79 NewEgg Daily Deal Polk Audio 10" that is ported, but I don't think that counts as even my Yamaha A3040 weighs more than it! (seriously, not joking) Actually, I do not even have a wife, so the test ought be done at my house, but I don't feel like moving the 3600i around a whole lot, so it'll be just easier than carrying it next door and back.

Let the bass wars begin!
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post #20353 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I will let you guys know how they compare to the s3000i, I have (2) 24 Mariana on order.

Chris
At those prices you could have compared the T-18 to one of those Deep Sea Subs....
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post #20354 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Looks like I have to summarize my impressions of the V3600 so anyone that is interested and may have missed it can get an idea of the subs capabilities.

Once I got the sub dialed in I played bass heavy scenes from WWZ, Ender's Game, Nemo and Inception just to get an idea of what the sub can do. I also played some music tracks that I felt would give me an idea of how well the V3600 can do music.

Regarding music:
It was as I expected, the V3600 plays music wonderfully. It's bass is clean and tight and clear. I didn't notice any difference in the sound quality at all from my dual XV15se's, the big sub can do music very well.

Regarding dynamic bass scenes in movies:
WOW!!!! The rocket launch scene from Ender's Game was incredible. It had my couch shaking and my HT is in the basement on a cement slab and the V3600 is 14 feet away and I was only listening at -14. That means the sub produces some serious tactile feel on a cement slab from a distance.

The scene from Nemo was a lot of fun, I felt like I was one of the fish in the tank because the whole room echoed as Darla tapped her finger on the tank. The Inception and WWZ scenes were also over the top. It was like I was watching all these scenes for the first time.

I had a feeling I was going to experience some incredible bass when I ordered the sub but I really had no idea just how powerful it would be. The V3600 has honestly surpassed all my expectations. It's scary good.

Here's a pic of the sub in it's new home.
Hop: Find you a copy of Mad Max: Fury Road and enjoy. I just done watching it and my 2 XS30SE'S gave me a beating.
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post #20355 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:17 PM
 
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At those prices you could have compared the T-18 to one of those Deep Sea Subs....
I prefer front firing. I was looking at the 3600 but it is too tall for my placement.
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post #20356 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:18 PM
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That's great news Hop! Glad you finally got to enjoy the beast. I wonder how long it will take until you want another?
It took until yesterday!

Just kidding. A single V3600i is A LOT of sub. To get a couch shaking on a concrete slab is not easy. To get it shaking at -14 MV with the sub sitting 14 feet away is something I didn't think I would see in my basement. Remember, I'm not talking a little vibration…I'm talking some seriously real undeniable tactile sensations.

Having said that I do wish I had two. For no sane reason.
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post #20357 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I prefer front firing. I was looking at the 3600 but it is too tall for my placement.
No worries, I was just surprised by the prices more than anything.

ShaunH
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post #20358 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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It took until yesterday!

Just kidding. A single V3600i is A LOT of sub. To get a couch shaking on a concrete slab is not easy. To get it shaking at -14 MV with the sub sitting 14 feet away is something I didn't think I would see in my basement. Remember, I'm not talking a little vibration…I'm talking some seriously real undeniable tactile sensations.

Having said that I do wish I had two. For no sane reason.
Offtopic, Hop what does the list of main cave rules on your wall say?

ShaunH

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post #20359 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:23 PM
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Offtopic, Hop what dose the list of main cave rules on your wall say?
It might be this:
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Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000 Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Onkyo 818 receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Height Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, Dual PSA XS30se subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #20360 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Looks great Hop, love the tapper too. I got a question as I'm a power freak and I have multiply 20's ( circuits ) in my theater and have all my audio-video-subs-lights on their own separate circuits. I see you have a power strip on the floor, do you have your tapper and sub plugged into that together? I remember when I had my stuff in the living room at the old house I had my AV plugged into a Monster power strip and my sub plugged straight into the wall, I plugged my ( old ) mirage bps400 sub into the power strip with all my other equipment and there was a very noticeable decrease in performance. I assume the power strip was limiting the current. Is the beast plugged straight into the wall or a power strip?
Good catch. I do have it plugged into the the power strip. We are having storms roll through here over the next few days (in fact we had a major one going on while I was playing with the sub last night) so I wanted to at least feel some security knowing I had a little bit of protection from power spikes etc.

I did ask Tom about this and he said that if you are going to do a power strip a cheap one should do and the real culprits are power conditioners, they can really limit the sub's performance. But, the strip might be limiting as well now that you mention it. I'll have to play with that. Thanks for the info.
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post #20361 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:26 PM
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It might be this:
It's exactly that.
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post #20362 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:29 PM
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But..........................I like the keezer MUCH better. What's on tap?
My other hobby is home brewing, I've been doing it for close to a decade. The kegs in there right now are an IPA, a Porter and an Amber.
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post #20363 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:30 PM
 
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No worries, I was just surprised by the prices more than anything.
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post #20364 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:32 PM
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My other hobby is home brewing, I've been doing it for close to a decade. The kegs in there right now are an IPA, a Porter and an Amber.
Amber. Yummmmm

I'll be right over
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post #20365 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:34 PM
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Hop: Find you a copy of Mad Max: Fury Road and enjoy. I just done watching it and my 2 XS30SE'S gave me a beating.
Ohhhh that sounds like a great idea. Thanks for that. I'll be on the lookout for it.
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post #20366 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:36 PM
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yeah, before adding the 2nd sub and miniDSP I had audyssey set the sub a around -5 or so. That is where I want to get back to. What is the point of level matching to 75db if audyssey has to turn them up higher anyways? I'm not sure what doing that is accomplishing.

Sometimes Audyssey (actually it's your AVR that sets the speaker trims based on Audyssey's findings) get confused. Depending on the sensitivity of your speakers, your sub trim will vary in relation.

What I do is run just the first Audyssey mic position, "calculate", and then check the sub trim. If it is too high, turn the sub gain up...if it's to low, turn the sub gain down, then re-run the first mic position and "calculate", repeat until you hit the sweet spot (-6 to -8db).

Quote:
Should I level match to like 90db or something instead to get audyssey level down to negatives?
90db would probably be a bit too high, more like 82db or there-a-bouts. Just make sure your sub trim doesn't hit the lower limit on your AVR (-12db on my Denon).


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I'll try audyssey first and EQ after tonight and see how that works.

I hadn't seen that distance tweak before, thanks.
Let us know how it works out!
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post #20367 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:38 PM
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Amber. Yummmmm

I'll be right over
You are welcome anytime.

Just don't make fun of my flat screen...because it does pale in comparison to your big screen.

But at least I'm getting closer in the audio department.
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post #20368 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:41 PM
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You are welcome anytime.

Just don't make fun of my flat screen...because it does pale in comparison to your big screen.

But at least I'm getting closer in the audio department.
Thanks!!!

Yeah your sound is up there with the best.

Don't worry about small size. Genetics
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post #20369 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 02:54 PM
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I will let you guys know how they compare to the s3000i, I have (2) 24 Mariana on order.

Chris
I’ll be very interested in your thoughts of one Mariana vs one S3000i. You have to have a pretty large room to get two Mariana subs in that room. I know you’ll be extremely impressed with one. With two, I’d be worrying about your foundation…

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post #20370 of 20691 Old 06-26-2015, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
My other hobby is home brewing, I've been doing it for close to a decade. The kegs in there right now are an IPA, a Porter and an Amber.
Should've known from your handle- duh...

I could go for a nice chocolate porter, maybe make it an imperial. I love the high gravity stuff.

Enjoy.

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Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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