Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 70 - AVS Forum
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post #2071 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

Are you sure night and day? It is hard to believe with subs at this level.

ok maybe not EXACTLY night and day...but i feel if you can hear/feel a significant difference at this level (which it is OBVIOUS)...then its night and day. I mean there is a huge difference in the pb12 and the pb12+ and the xv15 actually exceeds the pb12+ in MOST areas and where it falls short is only by 2db

so imho its night and day...

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post #2072 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 05:03 AM
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^^ a very good sub for the money than, the xv15 is cool.gif
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post #2073 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by nemoreborn View Post

we were talking about the sealed version .. xs15 vs f15hp
yea i seen that as after the fact my mistake.
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post #2074 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

The PB12-NSD is a good sub but the XV15 does offer better performance.

Here's a link to a graph from data-bass.com on the PB12-NSD that allows you to compare it to the XV15, you just need to select it in the drop down bar.
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=66&mset=71

Are you past the 30 days on the PB12-NSD for being able to return it?

hey my apolgies bud, had my model numbers crossed up when posting lastnight. I also would like to see some measurements between the xs15 and f15hp.
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post #2075 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ a very good sub for the money than, the xv15 is cool.gif

IMHO the best value out there....and I always thought that even before i purchased one

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post #2076 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

Are you sure night and day? It is hard to believe with subs at this level.

Tom told me the xv15 was quite a bit better than the pb12-nsd.


here is quote from email he sent me

    "The PB12nsd is a decent subwoofer but not really a value leader. One of our XV15s ($799 delivered) would extend deeper, have more clean output, and better sound quality than a pair of the PB12nsd subwoofers."
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post #2077 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post


I've been doing a lot of reading, research and reading threads about other subs. I was pretty much set to buy a SVS sub until I started hearing about Power Sound. Now I am set to buy a Power Sound sub due to customer service, performance and price.

I am trying to sale my current sub RW-12D, but so far no luck. Now, I'm wondering how will the RW-12D sound pairing it with XV15 or XV30?
I actually had the BIC F12 before buying the SVS. I have them both running now and it does sound good. Maybe you could incorporate your 12D with the new sub.

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post #2078 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

After having the pb12 and getting rid of it because of the grill falling off. I went with the xv15. Like night and day. The xv15 is more equal to the pb12+

Sorry to let you know haha
Don't be sorry:) I might just try and sell the SVS and go with PSA. I am satisfied with it but knowing I could get better for dollars more is killing me..mad.gif

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post #2079 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 06:56 AM
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Hello there everybody just join this week and been going around asking for help to build my first HT system.. So far I got klipsch rf82ii the rc62ii and the rs52ii and pioneer sc-65 to power them.. The only thing I'm looking for know its a good sub 800 being the max with me possible to go a little higher..I was told the xv15 was the way to go.. I'm stuck between choosing the xv15 and vtf-15h.. I'm new to this so I don't think I'm gonna know all the specs and extra stuff one can do.. I just want one sub that's gonna hit me in the chest as I have yet to have that feeling:(..any thoughts would help and thanks in advance..
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Sadly, to get subwoofers to play and get along well with your listening room's acoustics, one is best served by multiple subs. My recommendation would be to buy two subs such as a pair of PSA, XS15 with an eye on a near term purchase of a third subwoofer. One may be best served buying three less expensive subs.

Rooms have interacting sound waves that cancel each other and multiple subs, help fill in these voids to smooth out a room's response to these cancelled sound waves. By smoothing out a room's response, one improves multiple seating positions so all the folks listening will have good sound. And yes, it really is an enigma until one familiarizes themselves to this phenomenon.

The easiest thing a neophyte can do is buy three equal subs and set them up asymmetrically in their listening space and go from there as yes, there's also a learning curve on how to best get a subwoofer system to play and get along well with a room's inherent acoustical pattern.

Unfortunately, subwoofers are a journey, not a destination.

...eek.gif
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post #2081 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Sadly, to get subwoofers to play and get along well with your listening room's acoustics, one is best served by multiple subs. My recommendation would be to buy two subs such as a pair of PSA, XS15 with an eye on a near term purchase of a third subwoofer. One may be best served buying three less expensive subs.

Rooms have interacting sound waves that cancel each other and multiple subs, help fill in these voids to smooth out a room's response to these cancelled sound waves. By smoothing out a room's response, one improves multiple seating positions so all the folks listening will have good sound. And yes, it really is an enigma until one familiarizes themselves to this phenomenon.

The easiest thing a neophyte can do is buy three equal subs and set them up asymmetrically in their listening space and go from there as yes, there's also a learning curve on how to best get a subwoofer system to play and get along well with a room's inherent acoustical pattern.

Unfortunately, subwoofers are a journey, not a destination.

...eek.gif

I get your point..but eventually I am going to get another matching pair of the sub I choose it's just now it's not in my budget..I just turned 20 so I am still gonna have a lot of time to upgrade..better question would be then which would be better a pair of xv15 or a pair of vtf15h am I going to really tell a diffrence between both if not ill go with the xv15 as it is more pocket friendly .
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post #2082 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 07:47 AM
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I would call Tom at PSA, he should be able to answer your question, i would bet theyd be really close.

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post #2083 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

Are you sure night and day? It is hard to believe with subs at this level.

Actually it's not really are that hard to believe at all, just go to data-bass.com and compare their graphs and you could see why he would make the comment. At 16hz the XV15 has twice the output of the PB12-NSD and above 30hz it's the same thing. Only at 20HZ does the PB12-NSD have the same output as a XV15.

So if he was watching a movie with a XV15 you could easily see why it would feel like night and day. And most ranges it would have twice the output.
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post #2084 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Porky56 View Post

I get your point..but eventually I am going to get another matching pair of the sub I choose it's just now it's not in my budget..I just turned 20 so I am still gonna have a lot of time to upgrade..better question would be then which would be better a pair of xv15 or a pair of vtf15h am I going to really tell a diffrence between both if not ill go with the xv15 as it is more pocket friendly .

Being that this is a Power Sound Audio discussion thread, I'm remiss to discuss additional suggestions. There are additional, continuing threads where this would be a more topic appropriate conversation as there are many less expensive alternatives that I think would better suit your above described situation.
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post #2085 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 08:08 AM
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He was just trying to compare 2 different subs, one PSA sub and one HSU, so he can ask that question here,Sorry not trying to be a hard on.

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post #2086 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Being that this is a Power Sound Audio discussion thread, I'm remiss to discuss additional suggestions. There are additional, continuing threads where this would be a more topic appropriate conversation as there are many less expensive alternatives that I think would better suit your above described situation.

Remember he said he wanted 1 sub and was willing to spend 800.00 or a little more for it. He mentioned the Hsu which once you include the shipping puts him around 1000.00 for it. Being he mentioned the xv15 its a no brainer. Are the other options he can go with, of course such as a couple klipsch subs, hsu vtf 3, outlaw, svs. Don't think he ever mentioned what size his room was or anything either.

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post #2087 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Porky56 View Post

I get your point..but eventually I am going to get another matching pair of the sub I choose it's just now it's not in my budget..I just turned 20 so I am still gonna have a lot of time to upgrade..better question would be then which would be better a pair of xv15 or a pair of vtf15h am I going to really tell a diffrence between both if not ill go with the xv15 as it is more pocket friendly .

Room dimensions??

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post #2088 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 08:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Joshjp View Post

He was just trying to compare 2 different subs, one PSA sub and one HSU, so he can ask that question here,Sorry not trying to be a hard on.

My apologies. I'm not responding in response to your comments, nor am I commenting on anybody's actions but my own. I'm happy to throw out alternative suggestions but out of respect for PSA, my recommendations would be out of place.
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post #2089 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 08:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by manonfire View Post

Remember he said he wanted 1 sub and was willing to spend 800.00 or a little more for it.

A point I addressed in my original response when I posted:

Quote:
Sadly, to get subwoofers to play and get along well with your listening room's acoustics, one is best served by multiple subs. My recommendation would be to buy two subs such as a pair of PSA, XS15 with an eye on a near term purchase of a third subwoofer. One may be best served buying three less expensive subs.

I'm doing my best here at respecting the threads topic as I try to expand intellectual horizons. tongue.gif....cool.gif

Irrespective of one's room size, 12x18 or larger, one is best served by four subs but I don't want to scare the poor guy as we just recently acquired our third sub. Today's projected effort will be to see what's what with what regarding proper integration of the added third subwoofer into our room's acoustics.

My point, if one starts out with a room that needs three subs to come alive and they set out with the intent of buying one sub, irrespective of which sub they buy, they're setting themselves up for disappointment as the room's acoustics will quite literally, eat the newly acquired subwoofer.....alive.

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post #2090 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Porky56 View Post

Hello there everybody just join this week and been going around asking for help to build my first HT system.. So far I got klipsch rf82ii the rc62ii and the rs52ii and pioneer sc-65 to power them.. The only thing I'm looking for know its a good sub 800 being the max with me possible to go a little higher..I was told the xv15 was the way to go.. I'm stuck between choosing the xv15 and vtf-15h.. I'm new to this so I don't think I'm gonna know all the specs and extra stuff one can do.. I just want one sub that's gonna hit me in the chest as I have yet to have that feeling:(..any thoughts would help and thanks in advance..

That's a nice system you got going at your age, I really started getting into HT round your age and my first system was some acoustic research speakers I bought from sears and a Sony receiver and Sony DVD player I purchased from speigle catalog, Actually got a discount on those as I worked customer service for them. No subwoofer to start. That was back in 98

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post #2091 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 09:08 AM
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Sorry I'm at work it's hard to reply quick..three subs to make it come alive wow..I think I am only willing to get two max..as I'm not in a house but apartment and don't think my neighbors would like me..but my room size is roughly about 20x16x
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Originally Posted by Porky56 View Post

Sorry I'm at work it's hard to reply quick..three subs to make it come alive wow..I think I am only willing to get two max..as I'm not in a house but apartment and don't think my neighbors would like me..but my room size is roughly about 20x16x

The problem is, the room's acoustics like to eat the sound waves the subwoofer system creates.

Visually, think of two pebbles being tossed into a glass smooth lake, near each other. As each produced splash ring radiate outwards and meet, the meeting of the two corresponding rings, cancel each other out. That sort of thing. And the addition of a third or forth sub, overcomes this wave cancellation factor, which allows the room to sonically come alive. The alternative is to fill the room up with room treatments, to absorb reflected sound waves so as to prevent the cancellation from taking place. And what nobody tells anybody, quality panels cost a bunch. As much as a subwoofer.
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post #2093 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 09:32 AM
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But also though, having multiple subs would cause sound waves to arrive at different times and affecting the sound that way too. Of course at the frequencies we are talking about, they are very much non-directional with cues such as directional "feeling". Some people are more sensitive than that.

Also for those of you using R&L, they may require 1 extra day to do residential deliveries. They load their truck early in the mornings for deliveries, before they even call to setup deliveries (for homes this is required) so I took off work today and no dice :/

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post #2094 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 10:00 AM
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Careful now....I recently got dual XS15s and got in to REW....I now want more. wink.gif


This brings up a question I have:

Here's my situation - I currently have 2 XS15s up front, next to my FL/R speakers (REW says this is best placement), with an older (circa 1995) Velodyne F1500 sitting directly behind my chair (crossed at 60hz) that I want to replace with a PSA so that they all match (and the Velo has a questionable amount of life left in it).

I absolutely LOVE the rumble that the Velo gives me with this extreme near-field placement, but my wife's chair is getting none of this extra rumble. Her seat is also in a null for the current XS15s - just not much bass in her chair at all. The couch sounds just as good as my chair (where she usually sits when watching movies), but with a little less rumble.

My thought is either 2 XS15s (1 behind each chair) or 1 XS30 (placed between our chairs, replacing an end table)....or maybe even the 2 XS15s, but one in each back corner (if the extreme nearfield is too much with the PSAs).

Thoughts?


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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

part of the reason I went with the xv15's over the xs...another 8db output in the 16-40hz range.
I would do 1 xs 30 between the two chairs...I think the cabinent design would work well with that situation. you and your wife would each have a 15" driver slamming your chairs!

But, the 30 would be firing forward and backward - not enough room to have it firing side to side.

Pretty sure I've decided to go with 2 more XS15s so I have more placement options. Thanks for your feedback though! biggrin.gif

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I don't think that the best placement for both XS15's. Have you tried placing them in opposite corners and see how that sounds?

I have tried virtually every possible combination of positions for the 2 PSAs - REW confirms that the current placement gives the best FR at the MLP. I know, it doesn't look like it would, but it does - might have something to do with how open my room layout is.

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post #2095 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 10:06 AM
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But, the 30 would be firing forward and backward - not enough room to have it firing side to side.
Either way the radiation pattern is exactly the same, 360 degrees.

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post #2096 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Porky56 View Post

Sorry I'm at work it's hard to reply quick..three subs to make it come alive wow..I think I am only willing to get two max..as I'm not in a house but apartment and don't think my neighbors would like me..but my room size is roughly about 20x16x

if you have poor room acoustics then yes 3 maybe needed, but I would go with at least 2 subs to start. If your budget is 800.00, a pair of klipsch rw-d's for around 600.00 shipped may be a great option for you. My personal recommendation after hours upon hours of recent research, go with a one xv15 now and save up for another later.
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post #2097 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 10:19 AM
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on a side note my xv15's just showed up...woohoo!!
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post #2098 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 10:21 AM
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on a side note my xv15's just showed up...woohoo!!

Lies...lol...pictures!

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post #2099 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 10:23 AM
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Either way the radiation pattern is exactly the same, 360 degrees.

This is true, but I think I'll still be better off with 2 more XS15s. wink.gif

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post #2100 of 13887 Old 04-08-2013, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

if you have poor room acoustics then yes 3 maybe needed, but I would go with at least 2 subs to start. If your budget is 800.00, a pair of klipsch rw-d's for around 600.00 shipped may be a great option for you. My personal recommendation after hours upon hours of recent research, go with a one xv15 now and save up for another later.

Ok that's what I plan to do buy one now and buy the other xv15 later..since I still live with my parents and knowing my pops loves action movies and hears the sound that comes outta them I might be able to get him to chip in to buy the other one..
Again thanks for all your comments..
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Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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