Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 709 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21241 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
You can turn a dual opposed sub with the drivers on each side so the amp is on the back. I would recommend dual XS30se's!
Not enough clearance to allow enough space between the sub the credenza on one side and speaker on other. Tom did originally suggest the XS30se, I may reconsider that, but it does have older version amp and driver. The ICE amp is very appealing.

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post #21242 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
I go off this thread for a few months and Tom drops 2 more great products. Tom--congrats on the launch of the V3600i and the impending launch of the V1800. You have no idea how tempted I am at the thought of switching my 2 S3000i's for 2 V1800s!
Why? I read your review you love your S3000i?

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post #21243 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kluken View Post
Not enough clearance to allow enough space between the sub the credenza on one side and speaker on other. Tom did originally suggest the XS30se, I may reconsider that, but it does have older version amp and driver. The ICE amp is very appealing.
I understand completely about trying to squeeze in a sub, mine BARELY fit in my space! Good luck with whatever you choose, I'm sure Tom will steer you in the right direction.

I should add that the XS30se is what Tom originally recommended for me but when the new ICE models came out I tried the V1500. After a week I ordered the XS30se and the day I got it I was boxing up the V1500 to send it back!

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post #21244 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by kluken View Post
...
Both Tom and Brian have been very helpful, but it seems the Rythmik may have better extension down to 14Hz (-2db according to them) while the S1500 only goes to 19Hz (-3db) and you can see the S1500 start rolling down around 30Hz, which seems to be typical of most sealed subs. I know box size effects that a bit. The F15HP has a slightly bigger box and I am thinking that and their servo is helping them get to 14Hz easier. I am just looking for some education here to help make my decision as to what I may be over looking. I really want to do PSA, but am afraid of giving up the deep lows. My room is 15Wx20Lx8H with a single 30 inch opening in the back near the seating area.
...
I believe taht the room is still small enough, and if also you have a door that you can close on that opening, you will be able to pressurize the room with dual subs, also I think you will still benefit from the room gain to achieve deeper extension then what the specs on paper say, probably close to single digits with any of those two subs you are looking into.

Change is the only constant.

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post #21245 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 08:11 AM
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I would give a slight advantage to the F15HP over the S1500.
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post #21246 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 08:11 AM
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Why? I read your review you love your S3000i?
I am really happy with them. Upgrades are always tempting--especially when the 15" driver version held closely with the S3000i.
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post #21247 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Personally I would try both in the home and see which you like better. Specs are specs but nothing beats an in home trial.

I agree Hop. I had the PB 13 before I moved and it was awesome. I guess what I was really asking (specs might have to be announced first) was is the V1800 comparable to the PB13 Ultra or is it an apple to oranges comparison?

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post #21248 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 08:23 AM
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I agree Hop. I had the PB 13 before I moved and it was awesome. I guess what I was really asking (specs might have to be announced first) was is the V1800 comparable to the PB13 Ultra or is it an apple to oranges comparison?
Look at the XV30se numbers compared to the PB13 in 20hz @ data-bass.com I would be willing to bet the V1800 basically produces XV30se level output in a cab half almost half the size. Also note the V1800 is smaller then the PB13 too!!
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post #21249 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Look at the XV30se numbers compared to the PB13 in 20hz @ data-bass.com I would be willing to bet the V1800 basically produces XV30se level output in a cab half almost half the size. Also note the V1800 is smaller then the PB13 too!!

If that turns out to be the case, the V1800 seems like the clear winner. I still want to order both and compare

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post #21250 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 08:42 AM
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If that turns out to be the case, the V1800 seems like the clear winner. I still want to order both and compare
The XV15se was down 2.5-3db from the XV30se, but the V1500 has 2db more output below 20hz then the XV15se. The V3600i has over 6db more output then the XV30se...so all that info digested, I feel its safe to assume my prediction will be close.

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post #21251 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 09:47 AM
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Holy moly! How many subs do you have ? How big is your room by the way?
I have 2 subs in the basement (XV15se and V3600). I have an open floor plan so I have a minimum of 5500 cubic feet and if doors get left open it goes up to over 6500 cubic feet.

In my upstairs system I have a small little Polk PSW 111, that's the sub I would like to upgrade.
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post #21252 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 09:55 AM
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Jaredseahawks I know you are trying to figure out what sub you should buy so I'll share something that I think is really important when looking at subs.

As I said above I have a pretty large area. That's why I bought the V3600. I needed a sub that had the output I wanted. I needed a sub that could dominate the open area I have and still have headroom.

I agree with Tom when he says the first consideration in getting a sub is output. If you buy a sub that doesn't have the output you want then you spend all your time wanting more. So getting subs with enough output is really really important. The problem is sometimes you don't know how much you want.

What I have learned in the past two years is bass is an individual thing. Personally I want a lot of couch shaking bass. However, I didn't know I wanted that much bass until recently. I figured it out when I realized I wasn't satisfied with my dual XV15se's, they just weren't able to produce the output in my room that I wanted (but someone else may very well have been more than happy with them). So I decided to upgrade...really upgrade. And I bought the V3600.

When I plugged in that V3600 and felt my couch shake and the room rattle and quake I thought to myself "That's IT! That's what I've been looking for!"

So my advice to everyone is if you even think you want a lot of earth shattering bass, then get a sub powerful enough to scratch that itch. It will save you money in the long run.
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post #21253 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

When I plugged in that V3600 and felt my couch shake and the room rattle and quake I thought to myself "That's IT! That's what I've been looking for!"

So my advice to everyone is if you even think you want a lot of earth shattering bass, then get a sub powerful sub that will scratch that itch. It will save you money in the long run.
I really don't like it when you post this trash... I'm perfectly satisfied with my subs. I'm perfectly satisfied with my subs. I'm perfectly satisfied with my subs. click, click, click. Did it work?

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post #21254 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 10:52 AM
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just keeeep telling yourself that climber.....i'm sure it will work.




i tried that same course of action....i will soon have a v3600 gracing my room rather than dual xv15se's. don't worry, i will post all my findings and drive you insane.
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post #21255 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 11:34 AM
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?.....So my advice to everyone is if you even think you want a lot of earth shattering bass, then get a sub powerful sub that will scratch that itch. It will save you money in the long run.
This is the reason I ended up with a Triax.
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post #21256 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 11:45 AM
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I'm perfectly satisfied with my subs. I'm perfectly satisfied with my subs. I'm perfectly satisfied with my subs. click, click, click. Did it work?
sigh......

The current issue in my mind is that I have never heard a quality ported sub here and the V1800 is so promising in price and performance. Lately my listening is trending away from loud music so ported might be an option here.

Yet, I highly doubt that I will make a change right now...who knows what they might come up with next to top this and possibly surpass the S3000i.

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post #21257 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 12:45 PM
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Two things - I thought I had an issue with my xs30se shutting off and Tom was very quick to respond to my questions (ended up being nothing more than a loose plug in the wall)....but another example of being very accessible and very quick to help out. I had briefly considered picking up another brand sub recently, but lack of current website and customer service concerns quickly squashed that idea. Psa will continue to get my business!



Second thing - crossover setting...don't know why I am confused but I am. Very large room with Von schweikert speakers all around and my xs30se. Onkyo 838 running through emotiva 200w rms/channel amp. With my old Yamaha receiver. It crossed my mains at 80...after running accueq(not sold on this yet) it set my mains at 40, center and surrounds at 80, and lfe at 80...am I crazy our wouldn't I have a 40hz gap here?? I admit it sounds very visceral and good pounding Metallica. Or is the lfe at 80 just for lfe channel on movies whereas playing music without a dedicated lfe it is sending everything above 40 to the sub??? Thanks for any advice you can give
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post #21258 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 12:48 PM
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I really don't like it when you post this trash... I'm perfectly satisfied with my subs. I'm perfectly satisfied with my subs. I'm perfectly satisfied with my subs. click, click, click. Did it work?
LMAO…. That had me laughing pretty hard.
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post #21259 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 12:48 PM
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Ok third thing...my room is huge and open..the xs30se does an admiral job...far above what my old paradigm servo 15 ever did...but I could use more. Huge vented subs are not an option due to waf as this is main living room (over 7500 cf). Adding another xs30se would be rough due to room layout. Would I see a considerable difference stepping up to a t-18? Obviously it would be better, but any idea how "much" better bass would be had?
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post #21260 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 12:53 PM
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Second thing - crossover setting...don't know why I am confused but I am. Very large room with Von schweikert speakers all around and my xs30se. Onkyo 838 running through emotiva 200w rms/channel amp. With my old Yamaha receiver. It crossed my mains at 80...after running accueq(not sold on this yet) it set my mains at 40, center and surrounds at 80, and lfe at 80...am I crazy our wouldn't I have a 40hz gap here?? I admit it sounds very visceral and good pounding Metallica. Or is the lfe at 80 just for lfe channel on movies whereas playing music without a dedicated lfe it is sending everything above 40 to the sub??? Thanks for any advice you can give
The 80Hz for the speakers means they will only play above 80Hz (roughly though as crossovers are not brick walls). Calibration software generally sets your speakers at their capability. Just because your speakers are capable or 40Hz doesn't mean they do it well. Set them all to 80Hz and let your subwoofer do what it was designed for (set to 80Hz as well so that the sub will only play 80Hz and below). Bass from speakers can be distorted and weak/sloppy. The PSA subs do bass for a living. You will have a clean sound from the bottom of the bass all the way up with both the speakers and subs set at 80Hz.

You might also notice cleaner highs due to the fact that your amp doesn't have to try to push out sub 80Hz bass to the speakers. You'll have more headroom this way.

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Would I see a considerable difference stepping up to a t-18?
You mention large ported subs aren't an option then you ask about one of the largest subs PSA makes next to the V3600. LOL
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post #21261 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 01:02 PM
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Second thing - crossover setting...don't know why I am confused but I am. Very large room with Von schweikert speakers all around and my xs30se. Onkyo 838 running through emotiva 200w rms/channel amp. With my old Yamaha receiver. It crossed my mains at 80...after running accueq(not sold on this yet) it set my mains at 40, center and surrounds at 80, and lfe at 80...am I crazy our wouldn't I have a 40hz gap here?? I admit it sounds very visceral and good pounding Metallica. Or is the lfe at 80 just for lfe channel on movies whereas playing music without a dedicated lfe it is sending everything above 40 to the sub??? Thanks for any advice you can give
The LFE channel is a separate channel that is used for the low frequency effects (LFE) in movies. Usually you should cross this over at 120 Hz. That way your sub (by far the best speaker for handling the lower frequencies) will be the speaker called upon to handle the hard pounding explosions etc. The LFE channel is not used in music.

Most people tend to cross their speakers over at 80 regardless of where the AVR's calibration software tries to set it. I wouldn't cross anything over at 40 because your PSA sub is far better equipped to play the lower bass notes than your speakers are.

EDIT: I just saw Climber beat me it.
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post #21262 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 01:02 PM
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Hi guys.

Just wanted to say hi from the UK, been following this thread for the last 2months with great interest.

Tom now has a UK distributor so his products can be enjoyed over this side of the pond.

I'm looking at getting the S3000i and 110 speakers hopefully shortly. Just need to shift my Focal speakers and my JL Audio E-112's.

Only criticism I have is the lack of images of the subs in your set ups....so come guys don't be camera shy get posting some pics please..?[emoji6]

Thanks Phil


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post #21263 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 01:03 PM
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Thanks for the info on the crossovers. I was thinking same thing but then started over thinking things

The v3600 is four ft tall..t-18 isn't much bigger than my xs30se which is why inward wondering. Can't lay the v3600 down on its side in my room
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post #21264 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
The 80Hz for the speakers means they will only play above 80Hz (roughly though as crossovers are not brick walls). Calibration software generally sets your speakers at their capability. Just because your speakers are capable or 40Hz doesn't mean they do it well. Set them all to 80Hz and let your subwoofer do what it was designed for (set to 80Hz as well so that the sub will only play 80Hz and below). Bass from speakers can be distorted and weak/sloppy. The PSA subs do bass for a living. You will have a clean sound from the bottom of the bass all the way up with both the speakers and subs set at 80Hz.

You might also notice cleaner highs due to the fact that your amp doesn't have to try to push out sub 80Hz bass to the speakers. You'll have more headroom this way.



You mention large ported subs aren't an option then you ask about one of the largest subs PSA makes next to the V3600. LOL

Thank you

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The LFE channel is a separate channel that is used for the low frequency effects (LFE) in movies. Usually you should cross this over at 120 Hz. That way your sub (by far the best speaker for handling the lower frequencies) will be the speaker called upon to handle the hard pounding explosions etc. The LFE channel is not used in music.



Most people tend to cross their speakers over at 80 regardless of where the AVR's calibration software tries to set it. I wouldn't cross anything over at 40 because your PSA sub is far better equipped to play the lower bass notes than your speakers are.

Thanks. Changing it now
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post #21265 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 01:06 PM
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Ok third thing...my room is huge and open..the xs30se does an admiral job...far above what my old paradigm servo 15 ever did...but I could use more. Huge vented subs are not an option due to waf as this is main living room (over 7500 cf). Adding another xs30se would be rough due to room layout. Would I see a considerable difference stepping up to a t-18? Obviously it would be better, but any idea how "much" better bass would be had?
There would be a pretty big difference but Tom would be the one to ask to get an idea of just HOW much of a difference it would make. However, as Climber mentioned, the T-18 is a big sub. I've seen them sitting in the PSA warehouse and they looked big even in that large of an area.

They are kind of like a nice sized coffee table.

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post #21266 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info on the crossovers. I was thinking same thing but then started over thinking things

The v3600 is four ft tall..t-18 isn't much bigger than my xs30se which is why inward wondering. Can't lay the v3600 down on its side in my room
Yes there is a pretty large difference. If you can swing it should give more output even in that large room.

According to the CEA 210 averages PSA provides the T-18 is ahead by the following amounts.

16hz-25hz 4.8 DB
31hz-50hz 6.1 DB
63hz-100hz 4.7 DB

Thats a good amount more output.

ShaunH

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post #21267 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaredseahawks View Post
Holy moly! How many subs do you have ? How big is your room by the way?
The room is actually 'small' by AVS standards, I think. It's 14'x25'x8', but is not sealed and opens up to a stairway and the livingroom upstairs. That's my neighbor's house in the photo, but our two houses are identical. There are only 3 of the same on this street, so it's not one of those cookie-cutter neighborhoods.

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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
So my advice to everyone is if you even think you want a lot of earth shattering bass, then get a sub powerful enough to scratch that itch. It will save you money in the long run.
Exactly - my motto is, "Buy it right, or buy it twice!" I strongly dislike any decision that begins with, "Well I'll start with this and move up later." So frustrating! Go for the gold or sit your ass back down on the bench.

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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
The current issue in my mind is that I have never heard a quality ported sub here and the V1800 is so promising in price and performance.
As my ears are still recovering from my time with my neighbor's V3600i, let me tell you that PSA makes a very nice ported sub. DISCLAIMER: I have not heard any others from SVS, Rythmik, or any of the other ID companies. My only frame of reference is from my car audio days and I've never really liked what my peers did with them because their goal was max boom. I should add to my list the generic variety of mixes like Klipsch, Polk Audio, and dare I say Bose in this thread? /hides

The sound is very similar to the S3000i. I'd be lying if I said it's exact, but it's damn close. I'd say the discrepancies I am referencing are because of the lower extension capabilities of the sealed sub versus the ported. The common terms with ported subs (boomy, lack definition, not 'musical') need not apply here. If you're on the fence about it, I would strongly suggest you pre-order online now, audition it, and find out for yourself. There's absolutely no risk in trying it out! Hell, add a S3000i to the order, while you're at it, and see what you like best.

All the best,
Travis
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post #21268 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post
I agree Hop. I had the PB 13 before I moved and it was awesome. I guess what I was really asking (specs might have to be announced first) was is the V1800 comparable to the PB13 Ultra or is it an apple to oranges comparison?
If you compare V1500's CEA 2010 data on PSA with PB13 Ultra on Data-bass, V1500 matches PB13 Ultra from 25 Hz to 50 Hz and has advantage from 63 Hz and up. PB13 Ultra does have 3.5 dB advantage at 16 Hz and 1.7 dB advantage at 20 Hz. That is impressive considering V1500 cost about half of PB13 Ultra.

So if you are on the fence about getting a V1800, DO IT NOW so that you can save $250 on V1800!!!

I can predict that if you compare V1800 and PB13 Ultra side by side, you probably can't tell the difference. But your wallet or your bank account will definitely know the difference of $750.

Last edited by chucky7; 07-18-2015 at 01:19 PM.
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post #21269 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post
Yes there is a pretty large difference. If you can swing it should give more output even in that large room.

According to the CEA 210 averages PSA provides the T-18 is ahead by the following amounts.

16hz-25hz 4.8 DB
31hz-50hz 6.1 DB
63hz-100hz 4.7 DB

Thats a good amount more output.


I will chat with tom and see. Thanks for the numbers
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post #21270 of 22229 Old 07-18-2015, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
There would be a pretty big difference but Tom would be the one to ask to get an idea of just HOW much of a difference it would make. However, as Climber mentioned, the T-18 is a big sub. I've seen them sitting in the PSA warehouse and they looked big even in that large of an area.

They are kind of like a nice sized coffee table.

Thanks. I will make a mockup of cardboard based on the specs and see what I have
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