Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 733 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21961 of 32709 Old 08-25-2015, 09:38 PM
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4)we have been experimenting with ICE power systems well over 2000 watts. I don't want to get more detailed than that at the moment.

Tom, what are you and Jim doing to me, a new 2000 watt ICE power system, I just unboxed my 1800s a couple of days ago..........C'mon....OK Jim work out the numbers and get back to me as soon as possible.

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #21962 of 32709 Old 08-25-2015, 10:42 PM
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This actually brings up an interesting point - is $1K now pretty much the basic cost of decent bass for most rooms? Is it just me or have sub prices been climbing steadily?
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post #21963 of 32709 Old 08-25-2015, 11:05 PM
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No I would say 6-800.00 is the starting point for good bass in most rooms. Unfortunately PSA no longer offers anything in that price range but other ID companies do because they Source most if not everything from China where PSA sources pretty much everything in the USA. The price of MDF steadily climbing does not help a USA company either.
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post #21964 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Like Dig said…it's a sickness.

People will spend money on what interests them. Personally I'm not that interested in cars but I have a friend who buys a new car every couple of years. My hobby is dirt cheap compared to his. He's always in debt because of his hobby. I'm just sometimes in debt because of mine.
Yeah and I am trying to kick my car habit, it is very costly.

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post #21965 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
This actually brings up an interesting point - is $1K now pretty much the basic cost of decent bass for most rooms? Is it just me or have sub prices been climbing steadily?
I think give or take it always has been. Sure you can get a marginally decent sub for $500-$800. I think many people not knowing any better or not wanting more would be happy with subs in that range, but if you consider yourself an "audiophile" (hate that term) or this is your hobby or you do critical listening/viewing then I think you are easily in the $1000+ subs. I remember how quickly I escalated when I jumped into this in 2003, went form HTIB to Denon/Klipsch/SVS in a few months when I realized my tastes and critical listening. Since then I have upgraded AVRs 3 times, subs twice and on first upgrade of front mains. And even then my speakers are a stop gap until I am ready to step up a few more rungs. I am sure if I have the cash I would easily be in the $20K range for my HT setup and suspect as I get closer to retirement I will make a final upgrade to get me something I really want to enjoy in retirement!

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post #21966 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 04:23 AM
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This may sound strange but I've figured out that I don't ever want to be done upgrading. Lucky for us, being on AVS its impossible to be done upgrading because every time you think you are done, someone posts something and it starts all over again.

For me a lot of the fun of the upgrade is the anticipation of it. And nothing beats the day when Fed-EX pulls up with a BIG new box that has PSA plastered all over it.
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post #21967 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 04:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
This may sound strange but I've figured out that I don't ever want to be done upgrading. Lucky for us, being on AVS its impossible to be done upgrading because every time you think you are done, someone posts something and it starts all over again.

For me a lot of the fun of the upgrade is the anticipation of it. And nothing beats the day when Fed-EX pulls up with a BIG new box that has PSA plastered all over it.
Agreed 100000000%
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post #21968 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
This may sound strange but I've figured out that I don't ever want to be done upgrading. Lucky for us, being on AVS its impossible to be done upgrading because every time you think you are done, someone posts something and it starts all over again.

For me a lot of the fun of the upgrade is the anticipation of it. And nothing beats the day when Fed-EX pulls up with a BIG new box that has PSA plastered all over it.
While I agree, I am at a point in this hobby where I just want to enjoy for long periods of time between upgrades (which is why it was 6 years since my last audio upgrade before adding the 210s/3600). I can also say for certain that I am done upgrading subs unless I do a complete overhaul at some point and go sealed which isn't happening as I just don't care enough about that last bit of extension (especially having my kickers/riser) to go to that trouble. I have taken my ported sub experience as far as I need it to go in this room.

I also don't see myself ever upgrading my speakers again assuming I am happy with the surrounds when they get here (don't know why I wouldn't be). The 210s are a bit overkill as it is in my room (which I am happy about considering my listening levels!), so there is really nowhere to go from here for me.

After I get my surrounds and beef up my kickers, my next upgrade will switch back to video with a 4k projector in ~3-4 years when they hit my price range.
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post #21969 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 05:15 AM
 
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Toe,

I just realized you have 14,000+ posts

nice work my man

I joined slightly before you...but that was back when i had dial up...and it took like a full minute to make a post so I mainly just browsed and didnt post
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post #21970 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Toe,

I just realized you have 14,000+ posts

nice work my man

I joined slightly before you...but that was back when i had dial up...and it took like a full minute to make a post so I mainly just browsed and didnt post
Wow Brian, didn't realize I had quite that many! I guess the ex was right when she said I had an AVS addiction. Glad we don't have to deal with dial up anymore at least!
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post #21971 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
While I agree, I am at a point in this hobby where I just want to enjoy for long periods of time between upgrades (which is why it was 6 years since my last audio upgrade before adding the 210s/3600). I can also say for certain that I am done upgrading subs unless I do a complete overhaul at some point and go sealed which isn't happening as I just don't care enough about that last bit of extension (especially having my kickers/riser) to go to that trouble. I have taken my ported sub experience as far as I need it to go in this room.
I tend to do upgrades in wave/cycles, usually 2-3 years apart, I could never do non-stop upgrades, either financially or emotionally due to all the tweaking and finalizing the setup ;-)
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post #21972 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Toe,

I just realized you have 14,000+ posts

nice work my man

I joined slightly before you...but that was back when i had dial up...and it took like a full minute to make a post so I mainly just browsed and didnt post
I know…Toe is a posting machine! I looked at his post numbers a few months ago and was humbled by his dedication.

Dial up was a nightmare. Surfing the web was work back then. It required both commitment and patience, and that was to just to get signed on.
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post #21973 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 12:14 PM
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A lot of upgrades are due to new tech - e.g. I upgraded my receiver to get all HDMI switching, upgraded tv's to go bigger in size, then go to 3D, and in next few years I will likely upgrade to Atmos, and then a few years later to 4K.

These are somewhat justifiable Then there are those upgrades when you wake up one morning and decide 'why wouldn't I want a newer speaker/sub' etc and then spend the next few months researching, which to me is almost as fun.
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post #21974 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 12:16 PM
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Agreed. I had never thought of it before but you are right, there are two types of upgrades. And both are fun.
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post #21975 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
This may sound strange but I've figured out that I don't ever want to be done upgrading. Lucky for us, being on AVS its impossible to be done upgrading because every time you think you are done, someone posts something and it starts all over again.

For me a lot of the fun of the upgrade is the anticipation of it. And nothing beats the day when Fed-EX pulls up with a BIG new box that has PSA plastered all over it.


If only I could forget my log- info, I might save $1000's, dang this PC for remembering those details
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post #21976 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 12:47 PM
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Hey guys... I just removed my miniDSP 2x4 from the chain. I was having a terrible time getting my subs to stay on in the auto position during reasonable listening levels (-20dB MV). PSA was diligent enough to send me the revamped amplifiers that supposedly bumped the input 6dB when receiving a dual input. I however did not realize this value. With/without dual inputs I was obtaining the same dB at the MLP. With that said, removing the miniDSP from the chain completely fixed the auto on/off issue and I have realized a tremendous increase in the output/experience of the subs. Perhaps I was doing something wrong? Who knows... all I do know is they sound amazing right now. Now, I have not taken REW measurements and applied filter to the miniDSP. I wasn't going to walk down that road until I fixed the auto on/off problem. I have settled on the decision to forgo the miniDSP and trust that the MCACC sub eq did its job in taming the dips and peaks. I'll run through REW eventually to confirm this but I intend to upgrade to XT32 in the future (or equivalent) and any realization of peaks/dips now would be pointless.

I'll have that miniDSP up for sale here shortly. If anyone is interested in it let me know... it is only a few months old (received from PSA as part of the upgrade deal for dual V1500s). I'm in the N. California Area.
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post #21977 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kluken View Post
Yeah and I am trying to kick my car habit, it is very costly.
I understand that. I am 20, my friends are really pushing for me to get a fast car. I was looking at early C6s around $25,000. I just couldn't justify that cost. Working on finishing my degree, will be looking to buy a house in a couple years once I graduate. Spending over $30,000 to build a C6. Insurance/fuel/payment/parts etc. I can build a home theater for about $5K that I am happy with. Which audio is more of a passion than fast cars. Especially with the limited income right now. Home theater for about $5K, CBR600 for $3-4K. All of my hobbies for under $10K. Start saving for a house and put money in Roth IRA.

Btw. Placing order for two S1500s tomorrow.
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post #21978 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I know…Toe is a posting machine! I looked at his post numbers a few months ago and was humbled by his dedication.

Dial up was a nightmare. Surfing the web was work back then. It required both commitment and patience, and that was to just to get signed on.
You actually got him beat Hop!

Toe - 13 years - 14,151 posts = 1088.5/year
Hop - 2 years - 2769 posts = 1384.5/year


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post #21979 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 01:40 PM
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Hey guys... I just removed my miniDSP 2x4 from the chain. I was having a terrible time getting my subs to stay on in the auto position during reasonable listening levels (-20dB MV). PSA was diligent enough to send me the revamped amplifiers that supposedly bumped the input 6dB when receiving a dual input. I however did not realize this value. With/without dual inputs I was obtaining the same dB at the MLP. With that said, removing the miniDSP from the chain completely fixed the auto on/off issue and I have realized a tremendous increase in the output/experience of the subs. Perhaps I was doing something wrong? Who knows... all I do know is they sound amazing right now. Now, I have not taken REW measurements and applied filter to the miniDSP. I wasn't going to walk down that road until I fixed the auto on/off problem. I have settled on the decision to forgo the miniDSP and trust that the MCACC sub eq did its job in taming the dips and peaks. I'll run through REW eventually to confirm this but I intend to upgrade to XT32 in the future (or equivalent) and any realization of peaks/dips now would be pointless.

I'll have that miniDSP up for sale here shortly. If anyone is interested in it let me know... it is only a few months old (received from PSA as part of the upgrade deal for dual V1500s). I'm in the N. California Area.
The MiniDSP will cut your output by ~6db when you add it to the chain. This must be compensated for with the sub trim/sub gain to get the MiniDSP to work properly. AustinJerry created an awesome guide for the MiniDSP located here:

Using the MiniDSP 2x4 to Time-Align Multiple Subs on a Single Channel - Rev 1.1


To determine the correct gain structure for your particular situation, skip to section 6.

I almost gave up on my MiniDSP as well until Jerry made it all so clear.
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post #21980 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 02:08 PM
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You actually got him beat Hop!

Toe - 13 years - 14,151 posts = 1088.5/year
Hop - 2 years - 2769 posts = 1384.5/year


Wow…that's a sobering statistic.

One minute you think you have everything under control...that you can stop any time you want and you don't really have a problem. Then someone shows you the truth.

I may need an intervention… Right after my next post.
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post #21981 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
The MiniDSP will cut your output by ~6db when you add it to the chain. This must be compensated for with the sub trim/sub gain to get the MiniDSP to work properly. AustinJerry created an awesome guide for the MiniDSP located here:

Using the MiniDSP 2x4 to Time-Align Multiple Subs on a Single Channel - Rev 1.1


To determine the correct gain structure for your particular situation, skip to section 6.

I almost gave up on my MiniDSP as well until Jerry made it all so clear.
I have thoroughly read through that guide... the miniDSP cut my output by significantly more than 6dB. I would speculate it was close to 9dB. Prior to removing miniDSP sub trim was at +3dB. I removed miniDSP and prior to re-running MCACC I adjusted gain knobs downward to get 80dB from both subs at MLP. I then re-ran MCACC and achieved an astonishing -6dB trim on the AVR. Now... that is at least 9dB the miniDSP stole from my system (not including me adjusting gain knobs downward). I am convinced this is the SOLE reason I was having auto on/off issues even with revamped ICE amps/modules.

I have given up on miniDSP
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post #21982 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 02:56 PM
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I have given up on miniDSP
I completely understand as I was there myself...I just want others to know that if you are willing to put in the (admittedly not small amount of) effort, you can get the MiniDSP unbalanced to work with just about any AVR.
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post #21983 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 04:12 PM
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I understand that. I am 20, my friends are really pushing for me to get a fast car. I was looking at early C6s around $25,000. I just couldn't justify that cost. Working on finishing my degree, will be looking to buy a house in a couple years once I graduate. Spending over $30,000 to build a C6. Insurance/fuel/payment/parts etc. I can build a home theater for about $5K that I am happy with. Which audio is more of a passion than fast cars. Especially with the limited income right now. Home theater for about $5K, CBR600 for $3-4K. All of my hobbies for under $10K. Start saving for a house and put money in Roth IRA.

Btw. Placing order for two S1500s tomorrow.
Impressive that someone of your age has such a level head with solid plan for their future. Kudos to you, live for you not your friends.
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post #21984 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 05:07 PM
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Impressive that someone of your age has such a level head with solid plan for their future. Kudos to you, live for you not your friends.
Indeed, at that age I was only concerned with how to skimp on eating so that I could afford beer and motorcycle insurance for my crotch rocket.
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post #21985 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 05:14 PM
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Impressive that someone of your age has such a level head with solid plan for their future. Kudos to you, live for you not your friends.
Agreed. I only wish I was that mature at that age. I didn't hit that level until I was around 28 (at least).
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post #21986 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 08:59 PM
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Agreed. I only wish I was that mature at that age. I didn't hit that level until I was around 28 (at least).
I'm 44 and I will hit that level after I order my 3rd sub

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post #21987 of 32709 Old 08-26-2015, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Aus1095 View Post
I understand that. I am 20, my friends are really pushing for me to get a fast car. I was looking at early C6s around $25,000. I just couldn't justify that cost. Working on finishing my degree, will be looking to buy a house in a couple years once I graduate. Spending over $30,000 to build a C6. Insurance/fuel/payment/parts etc. I can build a home theater for about $5K that I am happy with. Which audio is more of a passion than fast cars. Especially with the limited income right now. Home theater for about $5K, CBR600 for $3-4K. All of my hobbies for under $10K. Start saving for a house and put money in Roth IRA.

Btw. Placing order for two S1500s tomorrow.
Skip the C6(unless Z06) and get a C5 Z06!! Still my favorite Vette to date next to the C6Z. Should be able to pick up a clean Electron Blue C5Z in the low 20's. Nice plan you have going, not something your hear most 20yr olds talk about!

Here is a pic of my 2002 1SC Z28. Just turned 18,000 miles. I just finished up installing a set of CNC ported LS6 Z06 heads, Fast 92 intake, and Comp Camshaft earlier this year. Also installed a set of BMR lowering springs and currently doing some suspension work to aid in getting the new found power to the ground! Should be north of 500hp which is nothing earth shattering these days but in a 3280lb car it moves out decently.
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post #21988 of 32709 Old 08-27-2015, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by kluken View Post
Impressive that someone of your age has such a level head with solid plan for their future. Kudos to you, live for you not your friends.
Thanks, peer pressure can be tricky. It would be fun to have a fast car but they are just so expensive if you are picky. I figure I will pick up a fast toy once my career is actually started and I am on my feet. Hard to explain to parents why I am still living at home with a corvette sitting out front. Plus, how do you explain that to a girl? "Why yes I have an awesome fast car. We can go back to my uh parents house and watch tv.." Yeah....

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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Indeed, at that age I was only concerned with how to skimp on eating so that I could afford beer and motorcycle insurance for my crotch rocket.
Yeah... I am facing that dilemma now. Do I want a crotch rocket (CBR600 or R6). Fun? Yes. Recurring cost each month? Yes. Decisions.. decisions..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Agreed. I only wish I was that mature at that age. I didn't hit that level until I was around 28 (at least).
When I was in high school, one of my teachers pushed us to start investing early. Figured even small amounts can help. My parents have this parenting technique of "If you want it, you earn it." I wrecked my first car, purchased each one on my own ever since. Been through 4 now. You learn that if you want something bad enough, you will work for it. Granted, they will help us but we pay them back.

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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I'm 44 and I will hit that level after I order my 3rd sub
Haha! Just one more... I don't need two PSA's but you have to live a little. My best friend went and saw a financial advisor. She told him that for right now, make sure your car payment doesn't exceed one week's pay check. Hikes!! You could have 50% of your income tied up in a car! Been there, done that. Not a fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Skip the C6(unless Z06) and get a C5 Z06!! Still my favorite Vette to date next to the C6Z. Should be able to pick up a clean Electron Blue C5Z in the low 20's. Nice plan you have going, not something your hear most 20yr olds talk about!

Here is a pic of my 2002 1SC Z28. Just turned 18,000 miles. I just finished up installing a set of CNC ported LS6 Z06 heads, Fast 92 intake, and Comp Camshaft earlier this year. Also installed a set of BMR lowering springs and currently doing some suspension work to aid in getting the new found power to the ground! Should be north of 500hp which is nothing earth shattering these days but in a 3280lb car it moves out decently.
Man, it is hard to find a C6Z for under $35K. After taxes and registration, it will be closer to $40K. That is 20% down on a $200K house! My brother really pushes the C5Z, you can find them for about $18K if you look hard enough. They are beautiful cars, the arctic white is just perfect.

Wow! Nice Z28! It looks very clean! Incredibly low miles as well. My brother had a 02' Z28 that dynoed 406RWHP. It wasn't nearly as clean as your car but that thing would get up and move. We went by a deputy one day running 100 plus wide open, practically had open headers. Deputy gets behind us, the plate didn't match the car. We were both beyond shocked that we didn't get stopped. Good ol days...

I recently made the mistake of buying a '13 Charger RT with 21K miles. Dealership was like "Yeah we can get you in this car" I basically replied with "Where do I sign? Give me the keys!" Couple months later, realized I made the biggest impulse purchase of the year. Luckily I went to school with the sales manager's daughter. So he really helped me out when I sold it. I do miss the car though...

Hey, you are up in Fort Wayne! I am down on the south side of Indianapolis.

Ok, sorry admins! Way off topic...
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Last edited by Aus1095; 08-27-2015 at 12:50 AM.
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post #21989 of 32709 Old 08-27-2015, 12:45 AM
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Ok, back on topic. I am thinking of the following system.

Denon X4000
PSB X2T FL/FR
PSB XC Center
PSB XB Rears
2 PSA S1500 subs.
Sony BDPS6500
I have a Panasonic 50'' plasma for display. I think it was the ST50 but I can't remember exactly.
Seatcraft Eros Seats

Do you guys have any suggestions or tips? Room size is roughly 12X14ish. Tom from PSA recommended sealed since the room is fairly small. I wanted to do two subs though for a smoother frq response. Nothing to do with the extra output
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post #21990 of 32709 Old 08-27-2015, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Skip the C6(unless Z06) and get a C5 Z06!! Still my favorite Vette to date next to the C6Z. Should be able to pick up a clean Electron Blue C5Z in the low 20's. Nice plan you have going, not something your hear most 20yr olds talk about!

Here is a pic of my 2002 1SC Z28. Just turned 18,000 miles. I just finished up installing a set of CNC ported LS6 Z06 heads, Fast 92 intake, and Comp Camshaft earlier this year. Also installed a set of BMR lowering springs and currently doing some suspension work to aid in getting the new found power to the ground! Should be north of 500hp which is nothing earth shattering these days but in a 3280lb car it moves out decently.
Ha Ha…is that basshead going off topic on a thread? Bass, you are rarely (if ever) guilty of participating when a thread goes off topic. It's not like you.

But I'm glad you did...that's a nice looking car and a nice looking garage as well. I see a lot of tires on a rack in the background. I take it you do a lot of work in the garage. Very impressive.
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