Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 736 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22051 of 22072 Old 08-27-2015, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by zoepup View Post
Hey Everyone. I have been following this thread for a little bit and have chatted with Tom a couple times. I am close to making the purchase but have a few questions to the group. I will be buying two subs. I started looking at the XS30se. Then they came out with the S1500 and V1800. Honestly, I'll probably go with whatever Tom recommends and I will be more than happy with it.


Questions:

1. Since the subs could be 20-30ft from AVR, I assume I run Coax through walls and ceilings then use F-Type to RCA wall plates?
2. Since I have about a week or so until I order I want to get a jump start on ow you position and tune these things. I will start with the floor crawl for the first one. How do you place second? What methods can I use to tune? I have seen REW mentioned. Are there clear steps on what to do to get best sound.
3. I will be upgrading AVR and will get either XT or XT32. It depends on price. Do either of these alleviate most of the tuning?

Thanks. Once again, I am hoping to get a jump start on how to make these beasts sound great in my environment

Whatever you do go get Blue Jeans Cables LC-1 sub cable if you are running them that long, it is even wall rated. Excellent cable especially for longer runs.
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post #22052 of 22072 Old 08-27-2015, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by zoepup View Post
Thanks for info. You 2 sub crawl test makes sense and might get me close.
The room is 23x26x7.5. For once in my life, I wish the room was smaller
SHould I get a USB mic or SPL or both?
Wow that is a big room. I have a SPL and REW with USB mic (minidsp UMIK-1). I use the SPL for some tweaks, but us REW for overall tuning. Dual V1800 all the way! My room is 14x20x7.5 and dual V1800 are great and I still yearn for more, but they easily handle any of my listening and I love the deep bass/lows. Is the room enclosed? I actuall got some decent room gain from mine that even handled the Edge of Tomorrow scene well down to 10Hz. I posted some REW charts a few posts back.

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post #22053 of 22072 Old 08-27-2015, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
If you’ve auditioned the PSB speakers and love them, then that is what you should buy. I’ve heard very good things about this speaker and it was given an excellent review here on AVS. I haven’t heard them myself, but I’m not buying speakers . If you haven’t auditioned them, then find an audio store that has them.

Yes, two subs can reduce nulls and peaks at the listening position, however, I’m not sure why you think you need dual subwoofers without trying one first. That seems to me to be a cart before the horse and a waste of money until you know how one subwoofer performs. Just my opinion….
Although I'm a big fan of dual subs and I think they fill out the room better and create better bass, you make a good point. Sometimes one sub can do beautifully on it's own.

I would audition the PSA speakers by taking advantage of the in home trial. If you can, see if you can bring home the PSB speakers and let them go head to head with the PSA and then keep the ones you like best.
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post #22054 of 22072 Old 08-27-2015, 09:00 PM
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@Alan , your're welcome, glad it's resolved.

@Jim , it's good to be back but I can't stay long, I have a long road to travel with no shortcuts, time is one luxury I don't have. I know there's a light at the end of the tunnel as long as I do the right thing. My family really needs me (Brother and Father). I won't get into the details, suffice it to say there's a Power greater than myself that always lends a hand, I'm grateful for that. Thank you Jim for the warm welcome back, I hope to try and spend time intermittently here at my second home.

@aus did you try D&M electronics for the PSB's, I think they have the best prices and Audio Advisor often has them on sale as well.
https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm

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post #22055 of 22072 Old 08-27-2015, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Aus1095 View Post
Thanks, peer pressure can be tricky. It would be fun to have a fast car but they are just so expensive if you are picky. I figure I will pick up a fast toy once my career is actually started and I am on my feet. Hard to explain to parents why I am still living at home with a corvette sitting out front. Plus, how do you explain that to a girl? "Why yes I have an awesome fast car. We can go back to my uh parents house and watch tv.." Yeah....



Yeah... I am facing that dilemma now. Do I want a crotch rocket (CBR600 or R6). Fun? Yes. Recurring cost each month? Yes. Decisions.. decisions..



When I was in high school, one of my teachers pushed us to start investing early. Figured even small amounts can help. My parents have this parenting technique of "If you want it, you earn it." I wrecked my first car, purchased each one on my own ever since. Been through 4 now. You learn that if you want something bad enough, you will work for it. Granted, they will help us but we pay them back.



Haha! Just one more... I don't need two PSA's but you have to live a little. My best friend went and saw a financial advisor. She told him that for right now, make sure your car payment doesn't exceed one week's pay check. Hikes!! You could have 50% of your income tied up in a car! Been there, done that. Not a fan.



Man, it is hard to find a C6Z for under $35K. After taxes and registration, it will be closer to $40K. That is 20% down on a $200K house! My brother really pushes the C5Z, you can find them for about $18K if you look hard enough. They are beautiful cars, the arctic white is just perfect.

Wow! Nice Z28! It looks very clean! Incredibly low miles as well. My brother had a 02' Z28 that dynoed 406RWHP. It wasn't nearly as clean as your car but that thing would get up and move. We went by a deputy one day running 100 plus wide open, practically had open headers. Deputy gets behind us, the plate didn't match the car. We were both beyond shocked that we didn't get stopped. Good ol days...

I recently made the mistake of buying a '13 Charger RT with 21K miles. Dealership was like "Yeah we can get you in this car" I basically replied with "Where do I sign? Give me the keys!" Couple months later, realized I made the biggest impulse purchase of the year. Luckily I went to school with the sales manager's daughter. So he really helped me out when I sold it. I do miss the car though...

Hey, you are up in Fort Wayne! I am down on the south side of Indianapolis.

Ok, sorry admins! Way off topic...

You should have found me last year. I sold my 99 C5 with a 600 HP supercharged LS1. I had $40k in parts alone and sold the car for $23k. It ran low 11's with street tires and still got 24 mpg. Even had a pair of Focal Utopia speakers in it that cost $2k. I spared no expense in that car. Look on the Corvetteforum.com for a good deal.


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post #22056 of 22072 Old 08-27-2015, 09:46 PM
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Street tires with 600hp? I take it you had no traction till 4th gear. I am hoping to run high 10's NA.
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post #22057 of 22072 Old Yesterday, 08:31 AM
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after having run antimode and using spl to balance, is there a preferred method of adjusting the overall base level? I have three options and I can't figure out which is best- do you adjust at the preamp sub trim, at the antimode dual core volume control or each sub's amp gain? I keep going back and forth between preamp and antimode- have not tried subwoofer amps gain levels yet? just wondering if I've been wasting my time adjusting at preamp and antimode when should've been adjusting at sub amp gain? thanks

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post #22058 of 22072 Old Yesterday, 08:35 AM
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Always advised to do any adjusting of the sub level (post calibration) in the pre-pro/AVR. However, it is also recommended to not exceed a sub trim of "0" (i.e. keep it in the negative) to reduce the chances of clipping the sub amp.
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post #22059 of 22072 Old Yesterday, 08:40 AM
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ok- so does adjusting sub amp gain levels mess up the antimode results?

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post #22060 of 22072 Old Yesterday, 08:45 AM
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thanks for the response-

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post #22061 of 22072 Old Yesterday, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrish View Post
ok- so does adjusting sub amp gain levels mess up the antimode results?
Probably not, but if it was me I'd re-do it...but I'm a bit obsessive about those things.

That being said, adjusting the gain on the sub itself without some sort of ability to measure the SPL is not advised either. Do you have an SPL meter?
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post #22062 of 22072 Old Yesterday, 10:32 AM
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may try increasing amp gain on each sub individually using spl meter 3 ft from each sub- don't want to run antimode again unless necessary because it is so freaking violent-lol

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post #22063 of 22072 Old Yesterday, 01:26 PM
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may try increasing amp gain on each sub individually using spl meter 3 ft from each sub- don't want to run antimode again unless necessary because it is so freaking violent-lol
That would be fine....but why are you stuck on increasing gain on the subs and not using the sub trim setting??
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post #22064 of 22072 Old Yesterday, 04:30 PM
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Here is a pic of my 2002 1SC Z28.

Clean Z bh! Well taken care of.
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post #22065 of 22072 Old Today, 12:03 AM
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Spoiler!
Awesome to hear as I placed a order for two S1500s a couple days ago.

I would absolutely love to give the PSA speakers a shot but it adds another thousand on top of the other speakers. At some point, you have to draw the line. I want to be able to do EVERYTHING for $5,000. I did talk to Tom on the phone for about a half hour. He said to give them a shot, what is the worst I can lose? If I don't like them, I can return them.

They are just kind of ugly, I would have to get speaker stands (More money), and cost more overall. It would be a pretty good system though.

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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Spoiler!
I don't know how concerned I really am about SPL on the mains. I mean, it is a small enclosed room with zero true sound dampening material. I owned an Arx setup for awhile, I was pretty happy with them. You are talking about $1,874.96 for a PSB setup and $2,799.99 for a PSA setup. Of course, I am sure buying two S1500s and 5 speakers, Tom would cut me a deal but still... Even $400 off which I beyond highly doubt would occur would be still another $550 roughly.

Tom did say that a company like his can put a lot more money into the actual quality of the product than say a large retailer company. Which is something to think about.

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Originally Posted by Homebrew101 View Post

That's kind of funny coming from a 20YO
Hey now, I am getting old. Already done some physical therapy for my back. All the responsibilities of being an adult. I will gladly go back to 14/15 when everything was paid for and I wasn't stressed nearly as much. It's funny, when I was younger, I thought being 16-20 would be so much cooler than this.

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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Spoiler!
I haven't heard the PSB's or the PSA's. I was primarily going off of budget and the reviews. Avs seemed pretty impressed with them. Obviously, if I purchase them and not like them. I can always return them. Indiana is pretty hard to find any decent audio stores. We had Ovation but they have gone down hill. I purchased two subs at once because you get a better discount on them. If I don't like them, I can return them. I know I definitely want a dual sub setup so I figured it was between the Gamma 15, the HSU sealed 15 and the S1500.

Budget being $5,000.
Denon X4000 - $649.99
PSB speakers - $1,874.96
Power Cleaner -$30-$60
Sony 6500 - $139.09
Dual S1500s - $1,749.99
Seatcraft Eros - $560.00
Total - $4,954.03

PSA speakers - $5,879.06
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post #22066 of 22072 Old Today, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Aus1095 View Post
I haven't heard the PSB's or the PSA's. I was primarily going off of budget and the reviews. Avs seemed pretty impressed with them. Obviously, if I purchase them and not like them. I can always return them. Indiana is pretty hard to find any decent audio stores. We had Ovation but they have gone down hill. I purchased two subs at once because you get a better discount on them. If I don't like them, I can return them. I know I definitely want a dual sub setup so I figured it was between the Gamma 15, the HSU sealed 15 and the S1500.

Budget being $5,000.
Denon X4000 - $649.99
PSB speakers - $1,874.96
Power Cleaner -$30-$60
Sony 6500 - $139.09
Dual S1500s - $1,749.99
Seatcraft Eros - $560.00
Total - $4,954.03

PSA speakers - $5,879.06
While AVS can be a great help to many people, it can also thin the wallet in a hurry. I see this all the time. Budgets have a way to be stretched to the breaking point. I’ve auditioned some very highly regarded, high-sensitive speakers (over 100 dB) with compression drivers (the brand will remain anonymous) that can play to reference levels and beyond. Everyone that owns these speakers are extremely impressed, or so they say. They cost around two grand a pair. After my audition, I wouldn’t trade my $225 / pair small bookshelf speakers (that cannot play at reference levels) for them even up. My son felt the same way after he listened to them. All I’m trying to say is get the speakers YOU feel is best suited for YOUR needs and don’t try to compete with people with large, dedicated home theaters that are concerned with filling that large space to reference levels and beyond. If that is what you seek, then be prepared to pay the price. But I urge you to go out and audition, even if the store isn’t the greatest environment or don't have the exact speaker you are looking for. Who knows what gem you may find?

If I remember correctly, you don’t have a very large room, and that’s why I questioned the need for two subwoofers. Did you know that you can buy that second sub at a discount price up to a year from date of the original sub purchase? That’s a great perk. But if you want two subs now, sure, go ahead, especially if you have a large seating area you are trying to fill. But also realize that two subs can be more difficult to integrate properly than one sub.

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Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.

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post #22067 of 22072 Old Today, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Aus1095 View Post
Awesome to hear as I placed a order for two S1500s a couple days ago.

I would absolutely love to give the PSA speakers a shot but it adds another thousand on top of the other speakers. At some point, you have to draw the line. I want to be able to do EVERYTHING for $5,000. I did talk to Tom on the phone for about a half hour. He said to give them a shot, what is the worst I can lose? If I don't like them, I can return them.

They are just kind of ugly, I would have to get speaker stands (More money), and cost more overall. It would be a pretty good system though.



I don't know how concerned I really am about SPL on the mains. I mean, it is a small enclosed room with zero true sound dampening material. I owned an Arx setup for awhile, I was pretty happy with them. You are talking about $1,874.96 for a PSB setup and $2,799.99 for a PSA setup. Of course, I am sure buying two S1500s and 5 speakers, Tom would cut me a deal but still... Even $400 off which I beyond highly doubt would occur would be still another $550 roughly.

Tom did say that a company like his can put a lot more money into the actual quality of the product than say a large retailer company. Which is something to think about.



Hey now, I am getting old. Already done some physical therapy for my back. All the responsibilities of being an adult. I will gladly go back to 14/15 when everything was paid for and I wasn't stressed nearly as much. It's funny, when I was younger, I thought being 16-20 would be so much cooler than this.



I haven't heard the PSB's or the PSA's. I was primarily going off of budget and the reviews. Avs seemed pretty impressed with them. Obviously, if I purchase them and not like them. I can always return them. Indiana is pretty hard to find any decent audio stores. We had Ovation but they have gone down hill. I purchased two subs at once because you get a better discount on them. If I don't like them, I can return them. I know I definitely want a dual sub setup so I figured it was between the Gamma 15, the HSU sealed 15 and the S1500.

Budget being $5,000.
Denon X4000 - $649.99
PSB speakers - $1,874.96
Power Cleaner -$30-$60
Sony 6500 - $139.09
Dual S1500s - $1,749.99
Seatcraft Eros - $560.00
Total - $4,954.03

PSA speakers - $5,879.06

What would get me is the "what if", and I would probably end up selling the PSB's in a year for some type of loss and buying the PSA's. The lesson I've learned is upgradeitis is a bad disease. If it is within budget - go big at the outset, or spend more later.

Of course, its always easy to spend other people's money
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post #22068 of 22072 Old Today, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
While AVS can be a great help to many people, it can also thin the wallet in a hurry. I see this all the time. Budgets have a way to be stretched to the breaking point. I’ve auditioned some very highly regarded, high-sensitive speakers (over 100 dB) with compression drivers (the brand will remain anonymous) that can play to reference levels and beyond. Everyone that owns these speakers are extremely impressed, or so they say. They cost around two grand a pair. After my audition, I wouldn’t trade my $225 / pair small bookshelf speakers (that cannot play at reference levels) for them even up. My son felt the same way after he listened to them. All I’m trying to say is get the speakers YOU feel is best suited for YOUR needs and don’t try to compete with people with large, dedicated home theaters that are concerned with filling that large space to reference levels and beyond. If that is what you seek, then be prepared to pay the price. But I urge you to go out and audition, even if the store isn’t the greatest environment or don't have the exact speaker you are looking for. Who knows what gem you may find?
There is a lot of good advice in this post. You always have to do what's best for you…Get what you think is best and remember we are just giving advice based on our own experiences.

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What would get me is the "what if", and I would probably end up selling the PSB's in a year for some type of loss and buying the PSA's. The lesson I've learned is upgradeitis is a bad disease. If it is within budget - go big at the outset, or spend more later.
This is also very good advice. You have to know yourself. If you are the type of guy who suffers with being plagued by the question "What If" and has upgraditis then get the best you can now. I've lost more money by buying and selling equipment upgrading because I didn't get what I really wanted in the beginning. In the end it's more expensive to keep upgrading.

When I suggested the full set of PSA speakers I didn't know you had a budget (I must of missed it). But I still stand by my suggestion to try them. What I would do is get the 110s for the front three channels. If you find you like them keep them and use the PSB XB speakers for the surrounds. If you don't like the PSA 110s then simply use the PSB speakers for the front three channels. In the end, if Tom throws you any sort of discount you are talking roughly the same coat. Just a thought.
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post #22069 of 22072 Old Today, 08:37 AM
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Get the 210's that are in the FS section!!
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post #22070 of 22072 Old Today, 09:03 AM
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Holy crap....watched Jupiter Ascending last night at -1 from reference and I don't know that I have ever been so concerned about getting a possible noise complaint (it was around 1 AM when that HUGE ending scene hit)! I have never had one somehow (being in a basement in an all brick house of course is huge), but the sound from the 210s/3600 and the rest of the system was just so large, LOUD but completely clean and powerful that I couldn't turn it down! I watched this on the old system about a month ago at the same level and I know audio memory is not reliable, but my system definitely seems more clean and dynamic now. I think a big part of this is moving to a considerably better center channel in the 210 vs my old S-Center. The S-center wasn't bad by any means, but there is a noticeable improvement all around the the 210.

As far as the bass goes, same impression I keep having adding the 3600 to the mix which is the bass quality is noticeably better vs my tried and true 12/2 Ultra and the 3600 blends noticeably better with the PB13s. There was always at times this feeling of the bass favoring the left side of the room with the 12/2 even though everything was working well together, but with the 3600 and it apparently being a closer sonic match to the PB13s, it just creates this wall of bass that feels to come from the entire room. It really is fantastic!

Also listened to a Phish show from a few weeks back and bits and pieces of some other music. My old S38s were actually very revealing speakers and so are the 210s. It's interesting all the differences you can tell from one live recording to the next as far as general compression, how loud individual instruments are in the mix and so on. This all gets largely lost listening on my cheaper work stereo and car stereo so it is always an interesting test to see just how good recordings I thought were good really are!

Also have to say that for my 2-channel listening levels with these concerts, I am VERY glad I opted for the beefier 210s. I feel even just a bit more headroom is valuable in my situation with how loud I like to play these shows.

I'm rambling, but bottom line is I am REALLY enjoying the PSA speakers/sub!
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^^ That's awesome Toe. I figured you would be happy with your new PSA gear and that's why I was waiting so impatiently for you to get it delivered, set up and dialed in…I was looking forward to reading your impressions. Especially since you have years of experience with good audio equipment, you have some good stuff to compare it to.

You're right, at your listening levels I think the 210s are almost a necessity. I can't imagine what your room must sound like because my 110s have huge sound at far softer volumes so your room must be a solid wave of sound.

Just saying V3600 says it all. V3600 is now in the dictionary for being synonymous with clean tight POWERFUL bass!
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Toe
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No doubt Hop! I understand what Tom is talking about now when he describes the sound as effortless.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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