Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 763 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22861 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Let me try again boys.... :-)

I have a 3,000 cuft room.

I plan to get a pair of identical subs.

Cannot decide dual s3000i or dual s3600i.....

There, more complete... Now, suggest away please!!
From the other side of the universe. My room is roughly 3,000 cf and a measly XS15se punches and shakes the room to the point as much as I want to add a second I can't justify it for performance reasons. However the other corner looks awfully lonely and the XS15se is going bye-bye so who knows...
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post #22862 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R
... My room is roughly 3,000 cf and a measly XS15se punches and shakes the room to the point as much as I want to add a second I can't justify it ... However the other corner looks awfully lonely and the XS15se is going bye-bye so who knows...
Do it!!

You know you want to...
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post #22863 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 06:21 AM
 
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remember duals isnt necessarily for more output...but more enveloping smooth response...

going duals was one of the most impressive upgrades I have ever made (up until the tower of power I just purchased)
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post #22864 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by westsdad View Post
Tom,

I've never specifically found it in the manual. But IIRC, unless you set xover (80Hz) and speaker size (small) in Manual SP Setup menu, and then select Full Auto MCACC or Auto MCACC with the Keep SP option, the Pioneer AVR selects large for the speaker size (even with SW1 and SW2 on).

See the top right section of manual page 99 for a "hint" of that from Pioneer.

Also, see the recommended MCACC work flow from the first post of the "OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread at "OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread

IIRC, I remember having to set speaker size as small (defaulted as large) when running the recommended MCACC work flow. But this was months ago and my dual S3000i's may have affected my recollection!

Scott
Hi Scott,

I didn't see anything in the manual but I might have missed it---was here playing catch-up past 2am last night..

If I set the mains to "Large" AND apply a 80hz crossover to them....what the heck is going on at that point with regard to frequencies being reproduced by the mains? I don't see how this could be applicable but then again, I'm still trying to figure out why they never did a Godzilla vs King Kong round 2~!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #22865 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
From the other side of the universe. My room is roughly 3,000 cf and a measly XS15se punches and shakes the room to the point as much as I want to add a second I can't justify it for performance reasons. However the other corner looks awfully lonely and the XS15se is going bye-bye so who knows...
The poor XS15se, gets no respect..

Folks sometimes look at a $1499 pair of subs made in USA and think....okay, I'm paying a big premium for the Made-in-USA aspect so I understand these won't be cutting edge with regards to overall performance. Well, I guess that statement could apply to ALL of our products. But Jim is a wizard(so he's never late). Dual XS15se at $1499? Try extension and output very similar to the $9000 paradigm sub-2. I know that's not apples-apples. But point being...if someone popped into 99% of audio forum threads and said...."I have about 3000 cu-ft and was considering the Sub-2, do you guys think that will do the trick"? I bet the large majority of responses would be..."Man, you're nuts, that is going to rock your world like you can't even imagine!".

In our PSA thread...."Yawn, yeah dual XS15se would be okay. But you really need to start with the new S10800 with the new 6000w amp. Then you always have an easy upgrade path down the road as you can just add another". New design code name lordi-nordi...

Tom V.
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post #22866 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 06:40 AM
 
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we are a sick bunch in here...and Tom/Jim are the enablers
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post #22867 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
thanks! I was up nat 1am last night with my mind racgin...how am I going to get it into my room its so big and heavy? I need speaker wire...I need to take my screen off to get the third xs30 behind the screen...I need y-splitters...uggg and I need to...re-run Dirac...and calibrate all over again! (i HATE running dirac...or any other ARC)

I have to zero out the minidsp 2x4...then time align...set the raw FR of the T^2...run dirac...set levels so 0.0 is 85db...bump up sub levels by 4-6 db...set house curve in minidsp 2x4...test them out

such a long process....nevermind once I finally decide to finish the cab on the T^2...I was trying to wrap my head around how to take all the drivers out...then get them back in since all 3 sides of the triax has 2 drivers...there is no side I can just lay on the floor for thagt last side of driver installs.

Tom? any suggestions?

This thing needs to get there...so I can sleep at night hahahah
Two guys and a hand truck should be pretty easy really. I mean we're only talking like 600 pounds.


j/k

I bet 300-320 ish. Drivers were about 30x 6 IIRC so that's a buck eighty.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #22868 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Let me try again boys.... :-)

I have a 3,000 cuft room.

I plan to get a pair of identical subs.

Cannot decide dual s3000i or dual s3600i.....

There, more complete... Now, suggest away please!!
If it were me and I had the room and money for either I would definitely go dual S3600's without even blinking an eye.

Why? Because I love having big subwoofers knowing I never have to ask the question "I wonder…..?"
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post #22869 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Man, you guys are hard core! Lol.

Here's my thought process.

1) Weight. The s3000 weighs enough, it will be tough enough to horse around, the s3600i may require two friends to help. Tom dies the s3600i include a back brace and hernia truss ? Lol

2) Looking at the data charts the s3000i gets me most of the way to the s3600i.

3) Shipping. Yes, it is a factor that the s3000i cones Fedex ground, rather than freight. See number 1 above.

4) Too much bass. I have a front projector. I'm worried too much bass will vibrate it, and/ or may damage or shorten the life of the lamp. Any of you bass heads with a front projector?

5) Music. My sub will be at least 50% music maybe more. I think, for some reason, the s3000i may be more nimble at music than the s3600i.

I have the space to put the s3600i, and I've had my old subs since 2001, so I'm not worried about a few hundred bucks more. I plan to keep these subs a very long time.

Thoughts?
Answers to your questions in order:

1. Floor sliders and a friend (I don't think you will need two friends but then again…). Plus this is a great way to let their jealousy start.

2. MOST of the way isn't ALL the way.

3. My V3600 came freight and it was easy and they took far better care of the boxes than Fed-Ex ever has (I'm going to post on this later).

4. I'm sorry…I'm not sure what too much bass is so I can't answer this question. But I've never ever seen a post where someone reported breaking or shortening the life of the projector lamp with bass.

5. Trust me… you have absolutely nothing to worry about here. The idea of a 18 inch driver not being as nimble as 15 inch driver is one of those myths floating around out there. I have had XV15se's and V3600's (15 and 18 inch drivers) and they both played music the same…beautifully.

To be honest, duals of either sub will do great in your room. So it comes down to which one will satisfy you and allow you to sit back and be completely happy with no questions or doubts.
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post #22870 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
thanks! I was up nat 1am last night with my mind racgin...how am I going to get it into my room its so big and heavy? I need speaker wire...I need to take my screen off to get the third xs30 behind the screen...I need y-splitters...uggg and I need to...re-run Dirac...and calibrate all over again! (i HATE running dirac...or any other ARC)

I have to zero out the minidsp 2x4...then time align...set the raw FR of the T^2...run dirac...set levels so 0.0 is 85db...bump up sub levels by 4-6 db...set house curve in minidsp 2x4...test them out

such a long process....nevermind once I finally decide to finish the cab on the T^2...I was trying to wrap my head around how to take all the drivers out...then get them back in since all 3 sides of the triax has 2 drivers...there is no side I can just lay on the floor for thagt last side of driver installs.

Tom? any suggestions?

This thing needs to get there...so I can sleep at night hahahah
dsrussell and Brian..I know exactly what you mean. I got my 2nd V3600 and the two 110sr's last Wednesday. The sub itself took a day of moving and trying different locations (no easy task with a V3600).

BUT I knew the day I switched to the 110's for surrounds I would have a lot of work ahead of me because the new speakers were being relocated from the place where the old surrounds had been. That meant rerunning wire, hiding the new wire and wall repair and painting (where the old speakers had been hung on the wall).

But the first step was getting the new subs playing nice with each other which meant running REW. Then getting the new speakers hung in place. Then running Audyssy (I hate this step). Anyway you get the point.

Well…last night...a full week after I got my new toys I finally finished patching and painting to hide where the old surrounds had been.

The point? Getting new toys is still worth all the work that goes with them because I'm loving all of it (now that it's done).

But I spent some sleepless hours in bed thinking through where things would go and how I would pull it off.
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post #22871 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
One thing to keep in mind would be that the S3600i's don't have free return shipping though. So he'd be on the hook for the return shipping if he liked the S3000i's better though.
odds are that would not be the case...if so you would still have XS30's instead of Gamma 218's. lol
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post #22872 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:08 AM
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You're right Jeff, leave your wallet at home when you visit PSA.

I'm scared to think what would happen if I lived an hour away from PSA. I'd probably be there every weekend. I'd also be divorced, broke and eating Raman Noodles three times a day. But I'd have a 9.4 setup with four V3600's and nine 210's/110's.

Yeah... it's good thing I don't live every close.
I live an hour away also and it has been hard on my wallet!!

Started out picking up 3 of the XV15's when they were first released and then upgraded to 4 Triax's.

Picked up 3 of them at PSA and one from Jeff.

Don't post on this thread much anymore because I am totally satisfied with the 4 Triax's and really not sure what would be an upgrade path. The only thing I don't like about them is their footprint.
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post #22873 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I live an hour away also and it has been hard on my wallet!!

Started out picking up 3 of the XV25's when they were first released and then upgraded to 4 Triax's.

Picked up 3 of them at PSA and one from Jeff.

Don't post on this thread much anymore because I am totally satisfied with the 4 Triax's and really not sure what would be an upgrade path. The only think I don't like about them is their footprint.
Im worried about that with the t^2 I just grabbed....but it will be in an unused out of traffic back corner so it shouldn't be too bad (here is hoping and praying lol)
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post #22874 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:14 AM
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Did not know PSA made a XV25? You can still post here Ray without looking to purchase anything. I agree the foot print is odd on the Triax. I am surprised you didn't grab that Triax XL prototype?
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post #22875 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
Funny how these auto calibrations get it so wrong sometimes and on the next run its so much better. That really makes an avr or pre/pro with a good manual PEQ more interesting for me. But that would drive me nuts tinkering with adjustments, so a good correction software program is for me at this point of life where my free time is short.

Regarding xover at 80hz, I was there too with large/capable speakers ( almost 30 year old Klipsch). It would take quite a good (and costly) speaker to best a quality sub down low. Leave the heavy lifting to the speaker designed for that. Try it-think you will like it.



So did I-almost 30 years ago. But quality subs changed my mind on that to the point that my large Klipsch have been replaced with large "Bookshelf" speakers (MTM210's).

Heck, Alan ran KHorns with 2 T18's-you dont get much larger than a KHorn for home use.
Yup, and had 'em crossed at 90hz.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Hi Scott,

I didn't see anything in the manual but I might have missed it---was here playing catch-up past 2am last night..

If I set the mains to "Large" AND apply a 80hz crossover to them....what the heck is going on at that point with regard to frequencies being reproduced by the mains? I don't see how this could be applicable but then again, I'm still trying to figure out why they never did a Godzilla vs King Kong round 2~!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
You guys are talking about a different brand of AVR, but on my Denon you can set the mains to Large and set a crossover only if LFE+Main is enabled. Maybe that's what Scott's talking about (i.e. Double Bass setting)??
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post #22876 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Two guys and a hand truck should be pretty easy really. I mean we're only talking like 600 pounds.


j/k

I bet 300-320 ish. Drivers were about 30x 6 IIRC so that's a buck eighty.

Tom V.
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I remember seeing that when I was there!

What are the dimensions on that? I could barely get a Triax through my basement door without turning it sideways.

Brian, do you have a really wide door to get this through?
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post #22877 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Did not know PSA made a XV25? You can still post here Ray without looking to purchase anything. I agree the foot print is odd on the Triax. I am surprised you didn't grab that Triax XL prototype?
Oops! Typo!

If I knew it was for sale I probably would have got it!

I don't know that I could get it through my door to the gameroom.
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post #22878 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
odds are that would not be the case...if so you would still have XS30's instead of Gamma 218's. lol
Well not really seeing that I went DIY after my XS30's
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post #22879 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I remember seeing that when I was there!

What are the dimensions on that? I could barely get a Triax through my basement door without turning it sideways.

Brian, do you have a really wide door to get this through?
um no...

I have my sliding glass door on my walkout...and a standard 32" door into the HT (EDIT: the specs show a side of 26" and the widest as 30") I should be fine with my standard door

its the same dimensions of the triax just 38" tall

am I f'd?
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post #22880 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Man, you guys are hard core! Lol.

Here's my thought process.

1) Weight. The s3000 weighs enough, it will be tough enough to horse around, the s3600i may require two friends to help. Tom dies the s3600i include a back brace and hernia truss ? Lol

2) Looking at the data charts the s3000i gets me most of the way to the s3600i.

3) Shipping. Yes, it is a factor that the s3000i cones Fedex ground, rather than freight. See number 1 above.

4) Too much bass. I have a front projector. I'm worried too much bass will vibrate it, and/ or may damage or shorten the life of the lamp. Any of you bass heads with a front projector?

5) Music. My sub will be at least 50% music maybe more. I think, for some reason, the s3000i may be more nimble at music than the s3600i.

I have the space to put the s3600i, and I've had my old subs since 2001, so I'm not worried about a few hundred bucks more. I plan to keep these subs a very long time.

Thoughts?
I have a front projector and a screen, no issue there. The sub gets delivered via freight, they brought it to my front door and took it off the pallet and helped bring into my house even though I did not need the help. I was able to slide the box down the stairs into the basement while I was standing in front of it the entire time, and then into the theater room. Its really is a 1 person job, trust me. It took me about 5-10 minutes from the time I received the sub until I had it in the theater room and unboxed with the sub in place.

The first thing I did was listen to music and trust me the S3600I did NOT disappoint so just order dual S3600I's and enjoy

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.

Last edited by Mike Butny; 10-01-2015 at 09:06 AM.
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post #22881 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
um no...

I have my sliding glass door on my walkout...and a standard 32" door into the HT (EDIT: the specs show a side of 26" and the widest as 30") I should be fine with my standard door

its the same dimensions of the triax just 38" tall

am I f'd?
You Should be ok, might need to take the door off if it doesn't open all of the way.

My gameroom door from my garage is narrow, 28 inches wide. I had to take the door off because it can't open all of the way due to an obstruction.
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You Should be ok, might need to take the door off if it doesn't open all of the way.

My gameroom door from my garage is narrow, 28 inches wide. I had to take the door off because it can't open all of the way due to an obstruction.
oooh cool....yeah it opens fully into the basment

dont scare me like that!

did you ever take the drivers out? Im wondering how to get the final side of drivers in...since there isnt a side of the sub you can lay on the ground due to the drivers on the other side lol
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post #22883 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
um no...

I have my sliding glass door on my walkout...and a standard 32" door into the HT

its the same dimensions of the triax just 38" tall

am I f'd?
I remember when you were building your theater and I recommended going with a solid oak 36 inch door. You can always take down the current down and re-frame the doorway, should only be a days work.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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I remember when you were building your theater and I recommended going with a solid oak 36 inch door. You can always take down the current down and re-frame the doorway, should only be a days work.
true...but then I need to redo all my fabric/acoustic panels....no fun
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post #22885 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 09:12 AM
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oooh cool....yeah it opens fully into the basment

dont scare me like that!

did you ever take the drivers out? Im wondering how to get the final side of drivers in...since there isnt a side of the sub you can lay on the ground due to the drivers on the other side lol
I did take the drivers out once and wouldn't do it again.

I took the drivers out of the one I bought from Jeff as I had to take it up a flight of stairs. Easy to take out harder to put back, especially if you didn't take good pictures of the wiring!!

The drivers are very very heavy. I think the one you are getting may have a slightly different driver than the production Triax's. I remember everything was set by then the driver manufacturer couldn't produce enough or something like that so Tom switched drivers very late. Those drivers may weigh less. I think the drivers that I took out weigh 50ish pounds.

You can still stand a Triax on the short end, I have done it several times.
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post #22886 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 09:16 AM
 
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oh ok...I only ask when I put the finish on the sub

yeah these drivers are 30+lbs each
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post #22887 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 09:17 AM
 
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oh ok...I only ask when I put the finish on the sub

yeah these drivers are 30+lbs each
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post #22888 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I remember seeing that when I was there!

What are the dimensions on that? I could barely get a Triax through my basement door without turning it sideways.

Brian, do you have a really wide door to get this through?
Very close to the triax/t-18 except for height. He should be fine..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #22889 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 09:19 AM
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oh ok...I only ask when I put the finish on the sub

yeah these drivers are 30+lbs each
Just put a black sheet over it LOL
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post #22890 of 37112 Old 10-01-2015, 09:28 AM
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My room is sealed. That is a photo of the room in my avatar.

18x19x9

Two layers of 5/8" Sheetrock. Concrete floor covered with carpeting. It was designed to hold bass.
That looks nice! Being that is sealed for sure two s3000i's would be great.prolly wouldn't ever need more..but.........if you can. Why not get more.either way you will be set imo.

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