Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 784 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23491 of 35431 Old 10-19-2015, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Subzilla would have cost about the same when all is said and done...but I couldn't have really used it as an end table, like I'm planning for the S3600.
I like the way you think.

I think subwoofers make excellent tables. I miss my nearfield XV15se which I used as an end table.

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post #23492 of 35431 Old 10-19-2015, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Subzilla would have cost about the same when all is said and done...but I couldn't have really used it as an end table, like I'm planning for the S3600.
Alan, that would be ideal for you, you have a lot of options now with the Khorns out of the picture. I would like to see two T-18s upfront and the 3600 right next to your chair for refreshments....... Go for it,only money.....you only live once, did you ever see a U-Haul behind a hearse.........

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #23493 of 35431 Old 10-19-2015, 09:16 PM
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I can see Brian trading in 1 XS30SE for the S3600I in the outlet center
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post #23494 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 04:42 AM
 
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I can see Brian trading in 1 XS30SE for the S3600I in the outlet center
i hate you!




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post #23495 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 06:07 AM
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Those 2 18-inch woofers with a 1700 watt Ice amp hit so hard. You lost Subzilla but with the addition of the S3600i, its like losing the battle but winning the war.

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post #23496 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 06:16 AM
 
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Ill ask tom what it will take to get me into a s3600i today
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post #23497 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 06:18 AM
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Theater room is about 98% put back together and Mad Max arrived yesterday. Finally its time to break the S3600I - XS30SE combo in!!!!!

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #23498 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 07:26 AM
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I am confused how the S3600i can have the +/-3db range it has where the max output is roughly 19 db more at the upper bass levels than the low bass. It seems like the newer models are geared much more towards the upper bass headroom and much less for LFE. I have the XV15se and it's 16-25 Hz cea output is darn close to that of the S3600i according to the PSA comparison charts. I find this hard to believe given the driver size, cabinet size and amplifier power difference to my XV. If the figures are accurate, it seems like the new models are geared more for the over 30Hz content which used to be frowned upon in this forum. It does not bother me at all as my content rarely has ultra low bass, it just seemed odd to me that the small XV could hang at 16-25 Hz.

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post #23499 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 08:53 AM
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If you understand the efficiency that port tuning adds then it is not all that hard to believe. PSA's 18" drivers do not have a ton of excursion...actually the Original FI 15" Triax driver had the most linear throw, then the LAB 15, then the 18x. The sensitivity of the 18 is very good and that is why there is such a big boost up top, but it is still good down low. It's a balancing act to get a driver to deliver good sub 30hz output and still be sensitive enough for the upper end and sound good doing it. I believe PSA goals are to deliver subs that excel in delivering great sound with all source material. I would be willing to bet that if you took a s3600i and XV15se placed side by side, you would hear nothing but the s3600i kicking the **** out of the XV in all metrics. I bet you would never be able to tell they were close in output around 20hz because of the total domination above and below those frequencies.

moral of the story, be careful how you compare subs.
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post #23500 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Docethic View Post
I am confused how the S3600i can have the +/-3db range it has where the max output is roughly 19 db more at the upper bass levels than the low bass. It seems like the newer models are geared much more towards the upper bass headroom and much less for LFE. I have the XV15se and it's 16-25 Hz cea output is darn close to that of the S3600i according to the PSA comparison charts. I find this hard to believe given the driver size, cabinet size and amplifier power difference to my XV. If the figures are accurate, it seems like the new models are geared more for the over 30Hz content which used to be frowned upon in this forum. It does not bother me at all as my content rarely has ultra low bass, it just seemed odd to me that the small XV could hang at 16-25 Hz.
1) The frequency response specifications and the maximum output capabilities for any speaker or subwoofer will usually be significantly different as these are two very different performance attributes.

2) All things being equal a ported subwoofer will have a large efficiency gain from about 1/6th-1/12th octave below the tuning point to about 2/3rd or 3/4 octave above the tuning point. So the data on the site is accurate. But careful/proper interpretation of that data is a little more involved than some may think.

3) All of our sealed models seem to have 17-19dB more headroom >65hz versus <25hz. So I wouldn't say this is anything about *new* models.

4) At times a few very vocal forum members make a lot of frowny faces at anything that doesn't use a 100 pound driver with a (claimed) 2 foot of xmax. This really doesn't influence our engineering process though. We've been through the car audio like boom boom wars before. Those guys come and go(eD anyone?) as it ends up being the proverbial "race to the bottom". I'd refer everyone to the long list of AVS GTGs and look at which products place #1 consistently in terms of performance and sound quality. Somehow Mark Seaton manages all this without those 100 pound drivers and with a product that (imo) would show a similar variation between <25hz and >65hz headroom..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #23501 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 09:28 AM
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Thanks for the detailed response Tom and Basshead I totally agree and would not doubt for a second that the S3600 would sound better in every possible way. I am just asking because I am interested in the S3600 and V1800 and am comparing them to my XV. Without hearing them, I am just basing my info on the comparison charts provided on their pages.

Tom, can you explain in dumbed down terms then what frequency response is based on then if not some max output metric? I knew it was not straight up max output but assumed it was based on something close just with distortion and long term parameters in place. Thanks!
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post #23502 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 12:32 PM
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new product announcement?
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post #23503 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 01:49 PM
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You can add Jurassic World to the list too It's going to be a fun weekend!!!!!
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Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.

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post #23504 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Docethic View Post
Thanks for the detailed response Tom and Basshead I totally agree and would not doubt for a second that the S3600 would sound better in every possible way. I am just asking because I am interested in the S3600 and V1800 and am comparing them to my XV. Without hearing them, I am just basing my info on the comparison charts provided on their pages.

Tom, can you explain in dumbed down terms then what frequency response is based on then if not some max output metric? I knew it was not straight up max output but assumed it was based on something close just with distortion and long term parameters in place. Thanks!
1) one on one---the V1800 would be a significant upgrade over a XV15se.

2)Frequency response indicates the output of the DUT over it's intended operating bandwidth. The primary goal is to show the deviations in the output. The less deviation the better of course---at least with loudspeakers. With subwoofers the less deviation the better from say 30hz and up(to its practical limits, maybe 150hz?) <30hz and you'll get different opinions from different engineers.

3)Output is simply that, to show maximum output capabilities of the DUT.

4)"Compression" curves combine #2 and #3 above.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #23505 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 07:23 PM
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You can add Jurassic World to the list too It's going to be a fun weekend!!!!!
You'll enjoy it it - just finished watching it in restrained mode (aka wife nearby). My v18 end table sounded great - thunderous dinosaur steps

Now I need to find a local buyer so I can get a second 18" to replace my PC12+ . Of course I replaced my wife's 09 Mini with a 15 on Friday, but be damned I need another v1800 so what's a little more debt - priorities right?

Tom it is a hell of a sub for music too - just fricken amazing - and you guys wonder why more of my reviews don't make the cut at S&V.

Finally GIANT kudos to Tom for getting me the PSA t-shirt to me so quickly when it wasn't included in the box with my sub. To make it even better the guy sends me two different colored shirts - I'm PSA all weekend. No wonder there is only one forum member named xxx that has to make some stuff up in an attempt to show Tom and PSA as anything but the best.

Thanks Tom - I will wear my PSA t-shirt proudly this weekend.

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

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Last edited by smurraybhm; 10-21-2015 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Never post using an cell phone; remove potential forum rule violation - thanks A for the heads up
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post #23506 of 35431 Old 10-20-2015, 08:26 PM
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I need another v1800... Tom it a hell of a sub for music too - just fricken amazing - and you guys wonder why more of my reviews don't make the cut at S&V.
I'm currently contemplating dual V1800's for my 4800 cf theater. My previous subs have been dual 20-39 PC's and currently dual PB-2000's. I'm looking for the sound quality of these two subs but with greater output capability. Specs and numbers aside, can you share from a "subjective" perspective the "sound quality" of the V1800 for both movies and music...especially since your ears have been acclimated to the PC12+'s. Thanks in advance!

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post #23507 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 05:47 AM
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I'm currently contemplating dual V1800's for my 4800 cf theater. My previous subs have been dual 20-39 PC's and currently dual PB-2000's. I'm looking for the sound quality of these two subs but with greater output capability. Specs and numbers aside, can you share from a "subjective" perspective the "sound quality" of the V1800 for both movies and music...especially since your ears have been acclimated to the PC12+'s. Thanks in advance!
I can offer some insight being I have a PC12NSD and 3 XV15se. The PSA subs sound every bit as good as the SVS, maybe even a slight advantage with much more horsepower on tap. I think you will find the V1800 will easily outperform what you have in spades.
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post #23508 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
I'm currently contemplating dual V1800's for my 4800 cf theater. My previous subs have been dual 20-39 PC's and currently dual PB-2000's. I'm looking for the sound quality of these two subs but with greater output capability. Specs and numbers aside, can you share from a "subjective" perspective the "sound quality" of the V1800 for both movies and music...especially since your ears have been acclimated to the PC12+'s. Thanks in advance!
Gene - All I can do is echo Basshead's comment. I had been seriously considering upgrading my right and left speakers, even exchanged multiple emails with Dave at Ascend because I was looking at those as being my problem with music. After more thought and research I decided a new sub was the smarter way to go. More reading took me to considering PSA, first a 15" and finally the 18". The PSA sub has significantly more punch (output) then the SVS sub, its that simple. The other thing I really like is I can listen to music or a movie (like the latest Jurassic Park movie last night) at levels that won't disturb my wife and still get that clean, clear, detailed bass from the v1800 - no night mode required. If it was my PC12+ by itself the volume would need to be boasted and the bass would still not compare. In case you are wondering - I run my subs about +5 from where Audyssey sets them. The room control for the v1800 is on the small room half of the range - the bass seems a little tighter to me with that setting.

I apologize for not being as articulate as someone like Jim Wilson when it comes to describing the v1800. At work and trying to reply before things get busy. When I talked to Tom he told me the sub would be very musical, he was right. For HT if I wanted to I could knock pictures off the wall upstairs using the v1800. More importantly despite pushing the v1800 I have yet to have it bottom out - something my PC12+ did when I played the beginning of Live Die Repeat prior to my upgrade. As you know PSA has a no risk 30 day trial period, encourage you to order one, nothing like hearing what all of us are hearing for yourself. Steve
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post #23509 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 09:48 AM
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+1 on the V1800. I just got one a couple of weeks ago and quite satisfied.
Very fast shipping as well.

Murray:

That just reminded me to try check out Inception with the new sub. The part where Leo falls backwards into the bathroom used to produce some stressful sounds on my old sub (Epik Empire)
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post #23510 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 11:51 AM
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I created a separate thread asking this same question however someone advised me to I post in here to get some more focused advice. Thanks for taking the time to read

So I have decided on getting a sub woofer from PSA but I am having a little trouble deciding between sealed or ported. I primarily watch movies and occasionally listen to music, movies is definitely the most important. The subs I am looking at are the S1500, the XS30se or the V1500. I have attached a floor plan(apartment) with my current layout, the red star is where the current sub woofer is located, it is a Klipsch Sub 8. There is enough "room" in that location to accommodate a real sub woofer. The green stars are potential locations for the sub, I could also place it on either end of the couch but that wouldn't be ideal. My concern with the sub by the fish tank is that water may get on it during water changes or there is a leak.

The reason I am torn between sealed vs ported is that I will be moving from this location within the next 6 months or so. Although I don't exactly know where I am moving to I'm going to make an effort to have this system in smaller, at the very least less open, room. I know either of these sub woofers will be a HUGE improvement over what I have but I am concerned that a ported sub will be too much in a smaller room. If I go with sealed now I am not sure which one I should go with to fill the space I currently have.
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post #23511 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I can offer some insight being I have a PC12NSD and 3 XV15se. The PSA subs sound every bit as good as the SVS, maybe even a slight advantage with much more horsepower on tap. I think you will find the V1800 will easily outperform what you have in spades.
Appreciate the feedback...exactly what I was hoping for! I too had an earlier SVS cylinder sub that served me well. And of course, Tom would understand the capabilities of SVS's product line

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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Gene - All I can do is echo Basshead's comment...The PSA sub has significantly more punch (output) then the SVS sub, its that simple...I run my subs about +5 from where Audyssey sets them.
Dual V1800's are at the top of my short list. I'm obviously looking to confirm my thinking with first hand knowledge from owners/users. You and basshead are putting me a step closer to my decision. BTW...I also typically run my subs 3db - 6db hot from Audyssey

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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
When I talked to Tom he told me the sub would be very musical, he was right. For HT if I wanted to I could knock pictures off the wall upstairs using the v1800. More importantly despite pushing the v1800 I have yet to have it bottom out - something my PC12+ did when I played the beginning of Live Die Repeat prior to my upgrade.
All performance characteristics that are important to me...really appreciate you sharing these impressions and experiences!

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As you know PSA has a no risk 30 day trial period, encourage you to order one, nothing like hearing what all of us are hearing for yourself. Steve
Yep...absolutely...in fact, I've known Tom even before his SVS days I'll be talking with him shortly but just wanted a V1800 owner's perspective first...Thx Steve!

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+1 on the V1800. I just got one a couple of weeks ago and quite satisfied.
Excellent! Can you also share what sub your V1800 replaced and how large your room is? Thanks!
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post #23512 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by meadowsad View Post
I created a separate thread asking this same question however someone advised me to I post in here to get some more focused advice. Thanks for taking the time to read

So I have decided on getting a sub woofer from PSA but I am having a little trouble deciding between sealed or ported. I primarily watch movies and occasionally listen to music, movies is definitely the most important. The subs I am looking at are the S1500, the XS30se or the V1500. I have attached a floor plan(apartment) with my current layout, the red star is where the current sub woofer is located, it is a Klipsch Sub 8. There is enough "room" in that location to accommodate a real sub woofer. The green stars are potential locations for the sub, I could also place it on either end of the couch but that wouldn't be ideal. My concern with the sub by the fish tank is that water may get on it during water changes or there is a leak.

The reason I am torn between sealed vs ported is that I will be moving from this location within the next 6 months or so. Although I don't exactly know where I am moving to I'm going to make an effort to have this system in smaller, at the very least less open, room. I know either of these sub woofers will be a HUGE improvement over what I have but I am concerned that a ported sub will be too much in a smaller room. If I go with sealed now I am not sure which one I should go with to fill the space I currently have.
Unless you know for sure your future room will be small and sealed, the V1500 will be a safer choice for movies for any future room size (even small). The XS30se is going to have the upper bass advantage for sure, but for home theater the V1500 is a great choice and I doubt it will leave you wanting in the upper bass department.
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post #23513 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 02:02 PM
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Spoiler!


Brian threatened me...
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Yippee-ki-yay...

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post #23514 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 02:59 PM
 
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Heads up people: there's a S3600i B-stock right now ($1,599). That's one heck of a deal!
Quiet. I want someone to buy on of my xs30's so I can buy it.
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post #23515 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 03:36 PM
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Quiet. I want someone to buy on of my xs30's so I can buy it.
Trade in your XS30SE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!





Is that an option for you?

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.

Last edited by Mike Butny; 10-21-2015 at 03:42 PM.
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post #23516 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 03:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Trade in your XS30SE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!





Is that an option for you?
Yes. But the cost to ship it back and get the new sub is too much out of pocket. :/
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post #23517 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 04:12 PM
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I created a separate thread asking this same question however someone advised me to I post in here to get some more focused advice. Thanks for taking the time to read

So I have decided on getting a sub woofer from PSA but I am having a little trouble deciding between sealed or ported. I primarily watch movies and occasionally listen to music, movies is definitely the most important. The subs I am looking at are the S1500, the XS30se or the V1500. I have attached a floor plan(apartment) with my current layout, the red star is where the current sub woofer is located, it is a Klipsch Sub 8. There is enough "room" in that location to accommodate a real sub woofer. The green stars are potential locations for the sub, I could also place it on either end of the couch but that wouldn't be ideal. My concern with the sub by the fish tank is that water may get on it during water changes or there is a leak.

The reason I am torn between sealed vs ported is that I will be moving from this location within the next 6 months or so. Although I don't exactly know where I am moving to I'm going to make an effort to have this system in smaller, at the very least less open, room. I know either of these sub woofers will be a HUGE improvement over what I have but I am concerned that a ported sub will be too much in a smaller room. If I go with sealed now I am not sure which one I should go with to fill the space I currently have.
I agree with Docethic. Unless you know what size room you'll be moving into I would look at ported because you have a lot of open area to try and pressurize RIGHT now. And a ported sub will still work fine if you end up in a smaller area (unless it's tiny). However, if you are going to go sealed I would get the XS30se.
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post #23518 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 04:18 PM
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Yes. But the cost to ship it back and get the new sub is too much out of pocket. :/
True. But then again you could look at it like the reduced price of B-stock will off set the cost of shipping back your XS30se. Then you could have a new S3600 in no time.
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Subwoofers: dual PSA V3601's with a PSA XV15se nearfield
Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210 Center- PSA 110sr Surrounds
Denon X4200 - Oppo UDP-203 - Panamax M4300 - Direct TV - Apple TV - Xbox360
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post #23519 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
True. But then again you could look at it like the reduced price of B-stock will off set the cost of shipping back your XS30se. Then you could have a new S3600 in no time.
Damn good point!!!!!!! Brian is going to kill us one day
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Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #23520 of 35431 Old 10-21-2015, 05:42 PM
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Damn good point!!!!!!! Brian is going to kill us one day
Heh Heh Heh…I know.

Subwoofers: dual PSA V3601's with a PSA XV15se nearfield
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