Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 793 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23761 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
What's the reason to have it on?
Are you playing with me or do you really not know how DynEQ works??


"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)


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Quote:
The way that human hearing works means that the frequency of sounds changes as the loudness of those sounds gets higher or lower. As the volume level is reduced, our hearing means that the high and low frequencies diminish more rapidly than the middle frequencies. Also, sounds coming from behind diminish more rapidly too as you lower the volume level. You may have noticed how the bass, especially, 'disappears' as you reduce the volume level.

Movies are mastered at very high sound pressure levels with peaks reaching 105dB for the main content and 115dB for the bass! This is called 'reference' level. But we rarely listen at these levels in our own homes. This means that if we listen at, say, 20dB below 'reference' level this will affect the perceived balance of the frequencies that the sound mixer heard when he made the content. It will also affect the way we hear the surround sounds from the side and/or rear surround speakers.

Dynamic EQ was designed specifically to solve that problem. When Dynamic EQ is engaged, as you lower the volume away from 'reference' (ie master Volume of 0dB), Dynamic EQ continually adjusts the frequencies and surround levels to maintain the balance that the mixing engineer wanted you to hear.
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post #23762 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 03:50 PM
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Just leave it on and ur good to go.

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post #23763 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Are you playing with me or do you really not know how DynEQ works??


"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)


Quoted from that link:
Yeah, I kinda learned in the 60s that when volume decreases, perceived bass decrease to a greater degree because of our inability to hear bass as well as higher frequencies . I mixed up Dynamic EQ (which I was surprised to find that it was on, although I never turned it on) vs Dynamic volume, which gave me a menu to turn on or off -- I kept it off . So yes, I was confusing the terminology.
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post #23764 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Wow, a lot a exciting buys! Congratulations to all . The PSA juggernaut continues. PSA has to be the fastest growing subwoofer/speaker company that I’ve seen in recent memory.

I don’t want to bore you guys too badly, especially those with such extreme bass demands, but here I go again. Many here know that I’ve owned the PSA XS30 since July of 2013. But like most here, one is never quite fully satisfied. After returning the S3000i I had auditioned a little over 3 months ago, I’ve been looking at several alternatives. I looked at Reaction Audio and think Jeremy has come up with some really interesting and impressive products. Unlike most people, I’m not worried about shipping lead times. Unfortunately, what I was looking at was too large for my location(s). I looked into Seaton, and while the size was fine, and its reputation unassailable, I knew spending 3 grand on a single sub at the output levels I play would be ridiculously stupid and only for, “Hey, I own a SubMersive” self gratification or bragging rights. Same with Funk, but yikes, they make incredibly beautiful subs. I looked at almost all of the I.D. companies, including JTR and Rythmik. And yes, I looked at ported subs as well, but again, those sized brutes are too large for my location(s).

In the middle of all this, PSA released the S3600i. While it is big, it isn’t so big that I couldn’t place it in one area where sound results were very good. But after comparing the specs, I didn’t see how this sub would make much of an audible improvement over the S3000i at the levels I play movies (normally 12 dB under reference). So I sought out Tom’s advice. Tom confirmed that unless I began hitting the limits of the S3000i, there was no need to move up to the S3600i. I wouldn’t hear or feel the difference at the sound levels I use. Tom never tries to oversell, and heck, I haven’t hit the limits on my XS30 as far as output.

Okay, now what? Fortunately, I enjoyed the S3000i when I had it, but thought I might do better (I have since learned that it is not that simple when one doesn’t seek reference levels). After I sent it packing, I have been regretting that decision ever since. So I said the hell with it and once again ordered the S3000i. It is scheduled to arrive late Tuesday. At least nothing will be a surprise, and I know what I’m getting. And what I’m getting is a damn good subwoofer. It’s a solid improvement over my XS30 for music, and a step up for movies, where the XS30 is no slouch. I’m an equal opportunity guy when it comes to audio, so I don’t know what it is about PSA, but I seem to always be coming back. I believe Tom’s customer service and honesty about customer needs, along with very capable subs at reasonable price points played key roles. Or … maybe it was the thought of getting my very first PSA T-Shirt .
I have dual S3000is coming next week.
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post #23765 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 05:39 PM
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I have dual S3000is coming next week.
I almost wish I would have got a s3000i instead of the s3600i cuz dual 3000i's would prolly of been perfect.where as if I got another s3600i it would be too much for my room.idk.but I can say ur going to love it!!!!!

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post #23766 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
I'm with you on this. For me a loud movie night is the AVR at around -15db (depends on the movie, some are louder than others and Dolby TrueHD is almost always quieter than DTS HD Master).

I did crank up War of the Worlds once just to see and I was getting peaks (what my phone could measure anyway) of 107-110db at the LP. I could handle it for about a couple of minutes. It was sooooooooooo LOUD.

Even at my normal listening levels I can't really talk to my wife sitting right next to me without yelling.
Glad I'm not alone on this. Heck if I play 8 dibs under reference it is ear splitting!
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post #23767 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Hi Mike. It does surprise me that you noticed that big of a difference. Another member felt there was a night and day difference between the XS30 and S3000i. I found it more of a early evening late afternoon difference. But that could easily be explained by room size/volume, room shape, room openness and more critical integration practices (REW, for example, which I don't have).

I never have Dynamic EQ on, either for music or movies. My current trim level is -7.5. I run the XS30 4 dBs hot (-3.5). The reason I reordered the S3000i was the size vs performance. The S3600i could fit at one location, but not comfortably so. And I really did like the S3000i when I had it 3 months ago. I thought about getting the SubMersive and calling it a day ... a night ... and forever . But it was overkill for my needs. Besides, if I ever decide to get a second sub later on (doubtful, but one never knows), I have the place for the second (my son will be receiving my XS30). I think two S3000i's would give a single SubMersive a run for its money even if I played closer to reference.

BTW, I feel I play movies extremely loud. I hit around 103 dB's peaks (C-weighting ... don't have Z-weighting) on the sub and around 90 dB peaks (A-weighting) for the front stage. This is what I've recorded at my listening position. I simply cannot image hitting 115 dB's for the sub and 103 dB's for the speakers. Don't think my speakers could get there anyway, and certainly not without damage .
I think you will be extremely happy with 2 S3000I's.

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post #23768 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 05:42 PM
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I don't do movies at .10 or 15 max usually.but music.that's a different story

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post #23769 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 05:43 PM
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I don't do movies at .10 or 15 max usually.but music.that's a different story

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Meant I only can do movies at 10 or 15.

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post #23770 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 05:45 PM
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I almost wish I would have got a s3000i instead of the s3600i cuz dual 3000i's would prolly of been perfect.where as if I got another s3600i it would be too much for my room.idk.but I can say ur going to love it!!!!!

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I'm excited about it. The s3600 is too wide to get through the doorway behind my stage area.

The s3000i will fit with one inch to spare!
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post #23771 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 05:48 PM
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Lol!don't be a quitter! Get a saws all and widen that doorway if u want to!

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post #23772 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 06:26 PM
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What do you guys think? Should I give it a shot??


Now that the KHorns are sold and will be out of my rear corners tomorrow morning, I'll be able to try rear corner placement of the second T-18...that may help and I'll find out this weekend...so no final decision on adding a sub until then for sure.
What do we think? Alan…this is the PSA subwoofer thread, that's a dangerous question to ask around here.

I bet you can guess my answer without me even writing it…but I'll write it anyway. I think you should buy the S3600i to see if you can achieve a razor smooth response.

Then I think you should buy a 2nd one so you can have quad subs.
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post #23773 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 06:46 PM
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I'm with you guys…I usually listen to movies somewhere between -15 and -12 with my subs running 5 to 6 dB hot. However, I did watch Mad Max at -9 and…it was bloody awesome!!! But I might still be a little deaf from it.

Music I listen to at a variety of different levels depending on what's playing and my mood at the time.

I have to add that @Toe is my hero when it comes to his ability to watch movies at LOUD levels. The man watches at reference.
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post #23774 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 07:12 PM
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I'm with you guys…I usually listen to movies somewhere between -15 and -12 with my subs running 5 to 6 dB hot. However, I did watch Mad Max at -9 and…it was bloody awesome!!! But I might still be a little deaf from it.

Music I listen to at a variety of different levels depending on what's playing and my mood at the time.

I have to add that @Toe is my hero when it comes to his ability to watch movies at LOUD levels. The man watches at reference.
If your room is treated levels closer to reference will not sound as loud/harsh as a non treated room. I usually listen to movies at -18 to -14 in my untreated room. Music usually -18 to -10 with some songs up to +5 for fun.

Have $1200 in room treatments coming from GIK next week. Can't wait to hear the difference.
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post #23775 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 08:07 PM
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my experience has been that razor flat is not audible...sure looks great on paper though. if you feel the need to spend a couple grand to get a chart that shows a razor straight line from 10-100hz by all means go for it...3 subs are way better then 2!!
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post #23776 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I'm with you guys…I usually listen to movies somewhere between -15 and -12 with my subs running 5 to 6 dB hot. However, I did watch Mad Max at -9 and…it was bloody awesome!!! But I might still be a little deaf from it.

Music I listen to at a variety of different levels depending on what's playing and my mood at the time.

I have to add that @Toe is my hero when it comes to his ability to watch movies at LOUD levels. The man watches at reference.
If it's worth playing, it's worth playing LOUD! Mad Max at -1 had me and the gf laughing our asses off as we got assaulted by bass!

Last edited by Toe; 10-30-2015 at 08:48 PM.
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post #23777 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 08:45 PM
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What do we think? Alan…this is the PSA subwoofer thread, that's a dangerous question to ask around here.

I bet you can guess my answer without me even writing it…but I'll write it anyway. I think you should buy the S3600i to see if you can achieve a razor smooth response.

Then I think you should buy a 2nd one so you can have quad subs.
Yeah! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!


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my experience has been that razor flat is not audible...sure looks great on paper though. if you feel the need to spend a couple grand to get a chart that shows a razor straight line from 10-100hz by all means go for it...3 subs are way better then 2!!
Awww... then bh comes along and poo-poos on my idea.

Like I said, it's not all about a razor flat response....well, maybe it is...BUT...hey, I got $2K burning a hole in my pocket. I could spend it on stuff I SHOULD spend it on, OR I could spend it on subwoofers...what would you do? I know what Hop would do.
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post #23778 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 10:32 PM
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I would go for it if you need more headroom. I think your response is pretty good already. I also think the third will help even the bass coverage across the room.

And no I am not trying to poo on your idea, I think it's good, but I have to be the realist in this thread that pops in and says "WTF mang" you already have a pair of T-18's.
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post #23779 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I'm with you guys…I usually listen to movies somewhere between -15 and -12 with my subs running 5 to 6 dB hot. However, I did watch Mad Max at -9 and…it was bloody awesome!!! But I might still be a little deaf from it.

Music I listen to at a variety of different levels depending on what's playing and my mood at the time.

I have to add that @Toe is my hero when it comes to his ability to watch movies at LOUD levels. The man watches at reference.
I'm surprised and pleased to discover that many of us do not listen to reference levels. I'm in a 100% treated, well designed theater and no way I could listen at reference levels.

Until I got my new processor, the Marantz 8802A I had no idea how loud reference levels even were!

I like that opening scene in Master and Commander when they get their asses kicked by that French ship. Listening to that at 5 to 8 dBs BELOW reference will give you PTSD!

I think I'm also discovering why we like PSA, I'm guessing it does not require 0db to sound impressive.

I'm excited about my PSA subs, but I'll let you guys know if they don't do it for me.... Stay tuned.
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post #23780 of 28430 Old 10-30-2015, 11:53 PM
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If it's worth playing, it's worth playing LOUD! Mad Max at -1 had me and the gf laughing our asses off as we got assaulted by bass!
Mad Max at -1, ?!?!?!?!?! Holy crap.
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post #23781 of 28430 Old 10-31-2015, 05:21 AM
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Afternoon all,

Spent last hour moving the s3600i to another location which is Front Right.

Then running Audyssey xt32...this location is a marked improvement from my previous location..more even response in room...and MLP...




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post #23782 of 28430 Old 10-31-2015, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
If your room is treated levels closer to reference will not sound as loud/harsh as a non treated room. I usually listen to movies at -18 to -14 in my untreated room. Music usually -18 to -10 with some songs up to +5 for fun.

Have $1200 in room treatments coming from GIK next week. Can't wait to hear the difference.
I agree with all you said. I'm finally starting to look at room treatments as well. I don't know when I'll get around to getting them but they have worked their way onto the list of things to get.

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post #23783 of 28430 Old 10-31-2015, 09:00 AM
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Afternoon all,

Spent last hour moving the s3600i to another location which is Front Right.

Then running Audyssey xt32...this location is a marked improvement from my previous location..more even response in room...and MLP...
That sub is very large. I like it!

How is everything sounding? What do you think of the speakers and sub?

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post #23784 of 28430 Old 10-31-2015, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
That sub is very large. I like it!



How is everything sounding? What do you think of the speakers and sub?

Loving them so far, greater detail and clarity...!

The sub needs more work though due to my room still work in progress just trying different locations..!


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post #23785 of 28430 Old 10-31-2015, 12:11 PM
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Hey Alan…did you order that S3600i yet? It would be a good treat for Halloween. Just saying...
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post #23786 of 28430 Old 10-31-2015, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
If it's worth playing, it's worth playing LOUD! Mad Max at -1 had me and the gf laughing our asses off as we got assaulted by bass!
Wow Toe! MMFR at -1, might have to try that one
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post #23787 of 28430 Old 10-31-2015, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
Wow Toe! MMFR at -1, might have to try that one
I watch all first run movies at -1 (or slightly louder), but MMFR was definitely one of the louder tracks I have heard. Transf 4 still has to be the loudest track out there I would say though (not a good thing in this case).
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post #23788 of 28430 Old 10-31-2015, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I would go for it if you need more headroom. I think your response is pretty good already. I also think the third will help even the bass coverage across the room.

And no I am not trying to poo on your idea, I think it's good, but I have to be the realist in this thread that pops in and says "WTF mang" you already have a pair of T-18's.
@basshead81 I appreciate you being the voice of reason...I really do! You've saved me from wasting money on the wrong upgrade more than once.

I most certainly do NOT need more headroom, the T-18s have that covered in spades. It's mostly about better coverage....BUT, last night I was able to move the rear T-18 into the rear right corner (recently vacated by a Klipschorn). I did some crawling around the room and I think it has improved the coverage substantially. I haven't had the chance to re-run Audyssey or fire up REW (had to go to a pretty boring Halloween party tonight) but hope to tomorrow.

This may sound a bit vain, but it also has a lot to do with symmetry. The room would just plain look more symmetrical if I could have both T-18s in the front corners.

As far as "WTF mang?", what about @raynist mang??? Dude's got quad Triaxes!


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Hey Alan…did you order that S3600i yet? It would be a good treat for Halloween. Just saying...
Nope...not yet. No thanks to you though.
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post #23789 of 28430 Old 11-01-2015, 01:18 AM
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Just thinking out loud with regards to the triax (and more so the 6 driver model) and if anyone has thought about tipping the cabinet on its side so that one side is firing the drivers down? Obviously you would have to use some sort of feet or corner blocks to raise it up 2inches or so for the driver clearance but just wondering what difference or effect if any it would make to the LF and room response with down and 45° firing?
As I said, just thinking...
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post #23790 of 28430 Old 11-01-2015, 07:33 AM
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Just watched Jurassic World...slow to start with but when it gets to any scene with Indominus Rex, some nice deep rumbles especially the ending..loved it..!
Gave my new sub a good work out....
Also ran Oblivion rope drop scene OMG things rattled and moved in my room unlike never before



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