Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 898 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post
Nothing like hooking up the girlffriend's subwoofer in front of her and...nothing. I drilled holes in the floor, ran a 25' Monoprice cable underneath and to her Yamaha RX-V577. I connected the 15V LFE port to the receiver's sub1 port. I "guesstimated" the following settings: crossover to "max" (room is 24'x18'x7.5'), gain at 12 noon, delay at 0 ms, and room size to "large" as suggested. I turned on the receiver and proceeded to run Audyssey. At the end, it showed a W-3 error and the sub did not show up on the front of the receiver. The four speakers and center show but not the sub. Any thoughts?
What does the GUI show when looking at speaker selection. Do you have 1 sub selected under the menu? Do you have a green light on the 15V? Do you have another LFE cable(shorter distance) that you can use to troubleshoot the problem. Change the gain and the delay, as well as turn down the room size, and see if that helps. It seems that the receiver for some reason is not accepting the sub. Make sure that you do not have something like Pure Direct. Did you play anything lie music or dvd to validate that you are not getting anything from the sub? I do not own a Yamaha, or have I ever run YPAO, but this is a place to start, as it may be a faulty message.
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:45 AM
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@smudge981 ,
Or maybe a bad mic? Need to validate that by running test tones in the AVR.. Do you have an SLP, and what about moving the sub to another location, and trying again?
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Old 06-21-2016, 09:35 AM
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coming from a pair of xv15se and swapping them out for a single v3600 in roughly 4000 cu ft of open space....i can attest that the v3600 will give you plenty of room shake. of course, in my endless pursuit of ridiculousness, i have been contemplating a second sub for the opposite corner of the room to have duals again. not that i need more...i just WANT more! yup, it's a sickness. and i also feel obligated to warn you that if you are back and forth now, you might want to just get the v3600 and squash all doubt. otherwise you will cost yourself more money in the end when that bug get's in your brain and you start saying, "what if i had gotten the v3600?" mark my words, you will not be able to resist. especially if you start visiting the evil PSA website with all their helpful customer service and pleasant owners. :O
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Old 06-21-2016, 09:45 AM
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^Awesome!
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Old 06-21-2016, 09:57 AM
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Just to add something to consider and potentially help a forum member:

PSA V3600i Subwoofers (2 Available)

I am tempted like hell to pull the trigger on these two, but a) I am crazy as is (and so is my significant other to put up with my craziness) and I won't need further proof and b) more importantly, I was hoping that Bob's situation would improve and would find new employment.
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Yamaha CX-A5100 | 2x Emotiva XPA-5 & XPA-3 | PSA MTM-210T | PSA-MTM210C | PSA-MT110SR | 2x PSA V1800 | AM 8033-SII
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Old 06-21-2016, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post
Nothing like hooking up the girlffriend's subwoofer in front of her and...nothing. I drilled holes in the floor, ran a 25' Monoprice cable underneath and to her Yamaha RX-V577. I connected the 15V LFE port to the receiver's sub1 port. I "guesstimated" the following settings: crossover to "max" (room is 24'x18'x7.5'), gain at 12 noon, delay at 0 ms, and room size to "large" as suggested. I turned on the receiver and proceeded to run Audyssey. At the end, it showed a W-3 error and the sub did not show up on the front of the receiver. The four speakers and center show but not the sub. Any thoughts?

I watched one of the X-Men movies recently, totally underwhelmed, okay it sucked.

Then I started running things down, sub not working, no power, checked rocker switch, the fuse, the breaker........ My wife unplugged the sub so she could vacuum.

The moral here is more often than not its something really-really obvious.

Of course I watched the X-Men movie again very happy
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Old 06-21-2016, 10:38 AM
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"PS, it's YPAO and not Audyssey."

God, I didn't realize what I put down until you pointed it out. Talk about embarrassed.

"I would get on the phone or chat with Tom or Jim - he'll do a great job of providing you with a solution that will fit you needs."

Indeed. I got to chat with Tom for awhile and he, too, suggested getting another RCA cable and trying it again (this time without going underneath the house - the fewer times the better.) We both agreed that the simplest of answers is probably the correct answer.

I should mention that the girlfriend was pressed for time so I didn't get a chance to check the speaker set-up on screen. Once again, thanks to all who chimed in. I certainly appreciate your quick answers. I made a list and will go through each one to see if one of them provides an answer.

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Old 06-21-2016, 11:05 AM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

I got my 2nd V3600i this morning. I got it down in the basement, and set it up in the rear corner of the room.

I have one up front underneath the center speaker as well. I ran the Anti-Mode Dual Channel 2.0, and the results were stunning. It was nearly ruler flat accept for a small dip at 60-70hz and a larger at 100hz. I crossover at 80 hz.

I was not able to do a lot of listening, but the initial listening I did do was amazing. The midbass is notably better. I now feel it in my chest. The bass is very tight and clean.

In my case I really didn't need the head room, but the 2nd sub really levels out room modes as seen on the anti-mode room read out.

With only one V3600i in front I had a suckout of midbass from about 60hz to 30hz. Not good. The addition of the one in the back brings all the midbass back.

I do not run the subs hot at all they are balanced within my system, and can disappear or smack you in the face when called for.

Tom even threw a shirt in for me which I am wearing. These subs are serious business, and you get the sense when listening to them that they can just take anything you throw at them with ease.

I previously had 2 Rythmik f15hp's in the room. They could not keep up. The dual V3600i's provide over 6 times the bass of the Rythmiks.

Heaven...


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Old 06-21-2016, 12:19 PM
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@Oledurt ,
Care to share your graph with us? Always like to see what the AM2DC brings out.
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Old 06-21-2016, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
@Oledurt ,
Care to share your graph with us? Always like to see what the AM2DC brings out.


Sure here you go.


I just finished watching Force Awakens omg it was so awesome!

I also am now running a house curve on the anti mode. Usually don't do that but these subs sound so good!



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Old 06-21-2016, 03:35 PM
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oh yeah...in all the excitement i forgot to tell ya that my 2nd s3600i ARRIVED YESTERDAY...


yes I'm THAT pumped...also gotta umik-1 and downloaded REW...and took next week off work to boot!


time to get serious...

at the zenith of his nadir...
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:36 PM
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
I got my 2nd V3600i this morning. I got it down in the basement, and set it up in the rear corner of the room.

I have one up front underneath the center speaker as well. I ran the Anti-Mode Dual Channel 2.0, and the results were stunning. It was nearly ruler flat accept for a small dip at 60-70hz and a larger at 100hz. I crossover at 80 hz.

I was not able to do a lot of listening, but the initial listening I did do was amazing. The midbass is notably better. I now feel it in my chest. The bass is very tight and clean.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post
oh yeah...in all the excitement i forgot to tell ya that my 2nd s3600i ARRIVED YESTERDAY...


yes I'm THAT pumped...also gotta umik-1 and downloaded REW...and took next week off work to boot!

time to get serious...
Happy to see there's some new dual PSA sub owners. I'm patiently waiting a few more weeks for a second V1800, and living vicariously through y'all. Have fun tweaking, posting impressions (please!), and enjoy.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:52 AM
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@Oledurt ,
Interesting to see that I have the same dip that you do with 100hz area. I have about a 18db drop on my graph. What are your settings on the subs?
I will get mine tonight to compare.
Thanks,
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Old 06-22-2016, 04:32 AM
 
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does the antimode take into account the xover to the mains?

that dip is USUALLY fixed with the sub distance tweak..in the avr...but not sure if that is shown on the antimode
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Old 06-22-2016, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post
"PS, it's YPAO and not Audyssey."



God, I didn't realize what I put down until you pointed it out. Talk about embarrassed.



"I would get on the phone or chat with Tom or Jim - he'll do a great job of providing you with a solution that will fit you needs."



Indeed. I got to chat with Tom for awhile and he, too, suggested getting another RCA cable and trying it again (this time without going underneath the house - the fewer times the better.) We both agreed that the simplest of answers is probably the correct answer.



I should mention that the girlfriend was pressed for time so I didn't get a chance to check the speaker set-up on screen. Once again, thanks to all who chimed in. I certainly appreciate your quick answers. I made a list and will go through each one to see if one of them provides an answer.


Even if it turns out not to be the main culprit, I would ditch the monojunk cable. Go with Blue Jeans Cable.


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Old 06-22-2016, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
@Oledurt ,
Interesting to see that I have the same dip that you do with 100hz area. I have about a 18db drop on my graph. What are your settings on the subs?
I will get mine tonight to compare.
Thanks,


Unless your sub is crossed well above 100, the majority of that null is probably just from your mains. Part of it could be poor integration between the subs and mains. The solution could be moving the mlp, your mains, or both.


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Old 06-22-2016, 06:53 AM
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I am not too worried about the null at 100hz because it is so narrow it is not audible at all. It will never be perfect...Moving the seating area would probably be the easiest thing to try, but as I said I am pretty happy the results I am getting.


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Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
I am not too worried about the null at 100hz because it is so narrow it is not audible at all. It will never be perfect...Moving the seating area would probably be the easiest thing to try, but as I said I am pretty happy the results I am getting.


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Try the sub distance tweak. It works 95% of the time. And requires nothing more than a few presses on the remote

Just wrote down the values before you start tweaking. And before you measure again make sure you exit out of the setup menu
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:03 AM
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Try the sub distance tweak. It works 95% of the time. And requires nothing more than a few presses on the remote



Just wrote down the values before you start tweaking. And before you measure again make sure you exit out of the setup menu


Which sub distance tweak are you referring?



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Old 06-22-2016, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
@Oledurt ,
Interesting to see that I have the same dip that you do with 100hz area. I have about a 18db drop on my graph. What are your settings on the subs?
I will get mine tonight to compare.
Thanks,


Unless your sub is crossed well above 100, the majority of that null is probably just from your mains. Part of it could be poor integration between the subs and mains. The solution could be moving the mlp, your mains, or both.


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The last time I measured with REW, the smoothest graph I had produced a similar large dip at around 95-100Hz and believe that was with an 80Hz crossover on both subs and an antimode 8033s-ii. I've since experimented with an 90-100Hz crossover, and though I liked the added tactile response, it was bordering on bloated sounding for some content. I haven't measured the response again or played with sub distance since getting a receiver with SUB-EQ and eliminating the antimode, but that is on my to do list.

Unfortunately, if it's a placement option then I'll have to live with it as my MLP and speaker placement cannot change. I have a few other options for sub placement, but haven't bothered as the graphs are pretty smooth with a sub in the front left and one in the back right of the room. I'll report back if distance/delay tweaking and playing with the crossover eliminates the 100Hz dip the next time I measure.
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:52 AM
 
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Which sub distance tweak are you referring?



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Old 06-22-2016, 08:43 AM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

thanks for link. I don't use Audyssey. I have a pioneer Elite SC99 so I use MCACC. I am trying a couple of tweaks to see if I get a different result.

I turned my subs toward wall. I also pushed my main speakers flush with front wall, and treated their first reflection points. I'll let you know how it comes out.


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Old 06-22-2016, 09:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
thanks for link. I don't use Audyssey. I have a pioneer Elite SC99 so I use MCACC. I am trying a couple of tweaks to see if I get a different result.

I turned my subs toward wall. I also pushed my main speakers flush with front wall, and treated their first reflection points. I'll let you know how it comes out.


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shouldnt matter...the concept of timing is the same...audyssy, MCACC, YPAO etc
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Old 06-22-2016, 09:13 AM
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Here is a comparison of subs facing forward and subs facing wall.

Forward



Facing wall




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Old 06-22-2016, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
Which sub distance tweak are you referring?



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Blow is a quote from Alan P on the REW thread. This works great and a lot easier to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
The Sub Distance Tweak doc can be a little intimidating, so I wrote this a while back.

The sub distance tweak, Reader's Digest version:

1) Measure CC+subs (all speakers set to small, AVR set to "Multi Channel In", REW HDMI output CH3, sweep measurement)
2) Note if there is a dip at the crossover point (could be just above/below crossover as well)
3) Adjust subwoofer distance setting in AVR in +1' increments (make sure to back out of the distance setting menu or the changes won't take effect)
4) Re-measure
5) Repeat steps 3 & 4 until the dip comes up to flat

If your system is mainly movies, step 1 should be CC+subs...if mostly music you should measure FR+subs or FL+subs. If it is an even split, you will need to find a distance setting with the best compromise between mains & center.

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Old 06-22-2016, 09:22 AM
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@Oledurt ,
Interesting compare with forward and wall placing.
I may check into that.
Thanks,
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Old 06-22-2016, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Unless your sub is crossed well above 100, the majority of that null is probably just from your mains. Part of it could be poor integration between the subs and mains. The solution could be moving the mlp, your mains, or both.


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Thanks bear123 ,
I can move the MLP, but not the mains. Well I could put the mains on top of the subs, and not on the speaker stands, as I am limited with space options for right now. Seeing that the L/C/R are MTM-210s.,
Will experiment with the MLP this weekend, and see if that shapes things up.
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Old 06-22-2016, 10:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
Here is a comparison of subs facing forward and subs facing wall.

Forward



Facing wall




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the pre response is better with the drivers facing the room....less eq needed....thats what I would go with (despite the dip at 100 which i think can be tweaked with timing)
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Old 06-22-2016, 11:02 AM
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oledurt,

for your graphs, is audysey/ypao/dirac/whatever eq you have, active during the dual core measurement that is graphed here? Just curious if you ran AVR cal before running dual core calibration or after. If the output shown here is purely the antimode response sans receiver, the dips are likely room interactions and not due to the mains and subs blending I would think. I had some really good luck in removing a lot of room based nulls by adjusting the phase outputs separately on a dual sub setup to get rid of most of the major room "suckouts". The Dual core than did a great job in flattening the peaks out out further once I was able to get as best I could through placement and phase adjustments. Having a good measurement setup is pretty key to being able to do this though. Dual subs help tremendously in getting rid of room modes but if you can't accurately measure/see what the placement is doing it's really difficult to put those duals to best use. The antimode products are really great though for being able to mostly set and forget the bass response.
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