Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 913 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #27361 of 37582 Old 07-09-2016, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I just watched the first half of Mad Max FR at reference with the V1800's +6dB hot. I randomly played back and tested some of the bass scenes that sounded or felt good to me, and there were a few peaks of 117-120dB at my MLP! That was crazy loud, awesome, and thoroughly impressive considering the 5k^3 ft space. This really makes me wonder what an added V3600i in the back corner would do for me. Must...resist...temptation!

I should focus on installing the atmos speakers this weekend, and be happy that I have almost a week off for some sweet listening sessions. Any atmos movie recommendations from the PSA family?
With that large of a room, dual V1800's at reference level +6 dB hot are probably hitting their limiters somewhere below 30 Hz. So adding a V3600 would add around 6dB of headroom down low and probably get you closer to uncompressed output down into the mid teens at those levels. IMO you would gain a lot of tactile shake down low.
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post #27362 of 37582 Old 07-09-2016, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post
I'm a SVS owner from over a decade ago and It's good to see the PSA story.

I'm going to upgrade my old SVS cylinder and haven't been on this forum in quite a while. Obviously, this thread is going to be PSA favored, but are there subs that I should be looking at in comparison to the PSA S3600i? It seems like one of the best bang for the buck subwoofers out there. I was thinking about the Seaton Submersive, but that's a jump up in price and I'm not sure if there is a noticeable jump in performance.

Just looking for some opinions.
I went through the same quandary (I’m in a fairly open room at around 3,400 cu.ft. … 4 foot openings and a 6 foot opening). I was debating on an S3000i, or the S3600i, or a Seaton SubMersive. I talked to Tom (also had an email chat with Mark) and when I told Tom how loudly I played movies (-10 to -15 dB) Tom felt I wouldn’t hear much of a difference between the S3000i and the S3600i. Now, if you’re looking for reference level performance, I’d say the S3600i and the Seaton SubMersive would be a very interesting and close comparison. Obviously, all three subs are impressive.

Just understand that Tom’s customer service is simply the best in the business (and I had great service from Ed Mullen at SVS). That kind of service is hard to quantify, but if it sets one’s mind at ease, I think it’s an important factor.

Are there other quality subs besides Seaton and SVS? You bet, but honestly it’s hard to beat the price/performance ratio PSA offers. You could look at Rythmik and perhaps DSS.
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Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #27363 of 37582 Old 07-09-2016, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Dual Sb2000s won't be in the same ballpark. You'd need about four of those to see similar output versus one V1800. With an open floor plan vented will usually provide the best value. So if you go svs, do at least dual PB2000s. Or better yet, dual PB12+. The latter would give you a slight edge in output(over the single V1800) and you have the potential to minimize the negative impact the room may have on the bass with dual subs and careful placement optimization.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Thanks Tom for the information! I was almost certain it would take a good bit more to really match the V1800. Due to budget constraints, two PB12+'s are out of the question, but I am certain he will be more than happy with a single V1800.
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post #27364 of 37582 Old 07-09-2016, 08:44 PM
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This has probably been discussed before, if not maybe a question for Tom, does PSA have any plans of a sub in the ~$400-700 range? I don't know how big that market is (definitely not this thread of crazy bass addicts ) but I know quite a few people with that budget. Its a category that was well served a few years back but now everything costs more.
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post #27365 of 37582 Old 07-09-2016, 09:27 PM
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@Defcon , Rhythmik Audio has a good selection of lower priced subs. I think they are the only ID subs in the price range you stated with 20Hz extension.

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post #27366 of 37582 Old 07-09-2016, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
@Defcon , Rhythmik Audio has a good selection of lower priced subs. I think they are the only ID subs in the price range you stated with 20Hz extension.

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RBH, RSL, SVS and HSU all have products that fall into that price range with 20hz extension.
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post #27367 of 37582 Old 07-09-2016, 11:15 PM
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I stand corrected. ShadyJ must be rolling over in his grave! 😜

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post #27368 of 37582 Old 07-09-2016, 11:38 PM
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Tonight, was Matrix Revolutions, and San Andreas . On Matrix Revolutions I was hearing subsonic bass I never knew existed on that blu ray.

Good times!


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post #27369 of 37582 Old 07-10-2016, 05:49 AM
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Last night I was worried the recent talk of subwoofer hum had jinxed me, and right before a week off of work to play with some new audio gear! Long story short, it was a slightly loose connection coming out of the Y-splitter that went into my 3rd, non PSA sub (figures, lol)...not that it was the subs fault. Continue reading if you want the long version. :smiley:

We had a really bad electrical storm the night before last, and I had't listened to the system at all since then, but my fiance was watching TV all evening while I slept in after a long night shift. She woke me up early because of a very loud hum (100dB) that suddenly started coming from all 3 subs, even with the receiver off, so I killed the power to all 3 subs for a quick fix, as everything else audio/video still seemed to play fine. I was worried something was significantly wrong with either my new receiver or maybe the subs themselves.

I have a couple power conditioners in the setup, so I removed them from the chain, and fiddled with cables and connections into the receiver and subs to no avail, but overlooked the Y-splitter connections. I proceeded to tinker with receiver options, crossover settings, turning the subs off in the menu, also with no luck. I was about to start swapping sub cables in and out, when I twisted the slightly loose Y connection and voila. Guess that means it's not an amp capacitor failure or ground issue, so glad!
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post #27370 of 37582 Old 07-10-2016, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I stand corrected. ShadyJ must be rolling over in his grave! 😜
Did something happen to ShadyJ? Haven't seen him on the forum in a long time.

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post #27371 of 37582 Old 07-10-2016, 10:28 AM
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Did something happen to ShadyJ? Haven't seen him on the forum in a long time.
I am sure he was banned for his antics.
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post #27372 of 37582 Old 07-10-2016, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
This has probably been discussed before, if not maybe a question for Tom, does PSA have any plans of a sub in the ~$400-700 range? I don't know how big that market is (definitely not this thread of crazy bass addicts ) but I know quite a few people with that budget. Its a category that was well served a few years back but now everything costs more.
Not possible unless we do something turn-key china. Or, at the least go back to the stone-age(for me) and import chinese made non DSP amplifiers to use. The ICE stuff we use now costs about 4x (per watt) versus a good quality BASH amp without a DSP frontend. And if we're importing amps we'd need to think long/hard about the enclosure too as that is going to be about 1/3rd the cost to us.

Now once we approve the enclosure + amp, it wouldn't make sense NOT to use their inner/outer boxing. This would, again, be around 1/4 to 1/5th of what we spend on it now. So we're close to final sign off and I promise you the comment from the OEM in china will be. WTH are you thinking? We're shipping you all of this "air"(non finished product) that you have to unbox every unit just to bolt in your driver, then rebox. Just let us build you the 12/15" driver and finish it for you here.

I've been through these conversations plenty of times sitting at the board meetings with SVS. And from a business POV it is tough to make any arguments really.

The only other way is if I found an investor for PSA willing to put in a *lot* of money(500k) for us to go vertical on the enclosures, drivers, and possible the electronics as well. By "vertical" I mean we do it all in house. We stock all the materials, purchase/lease a commercial 6 axis CNC($250,000?), purchase/lease a spray system($75,000?) add another 3000 sq-ft of warehouse, hiring another employee or two, etc. Doing drivers in house wouldn't cost nearly as much. Steve Ponte schooled me(and the rest of svs) on this a long time ago. Maybe 25k + one new employee.

The benefits of this would impact PSA in a variety of ways that are tough to overstate(think 75k in savings immediately just in inventory on site). But it is really just a dream unless I suddenly hit the lotto.


So, no $700 subs anytime soon..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #27373 of 37582 Old 07-10-2016, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Not possible unless we do something turn-key china. Or, at the least go back to the stone-age(for me) and import chinese made non DSP amplifiers to use. The ICE stuff we use now costs about 4x (per watt) versus a good quality BASH amp without a DSP frontend. And if we're importing amps we'd need to think long/hard about the enclosure too as that is going to be about 1/3rd the cost to us.

Now once we approve the enclosure + amp, it wouldn't make sense NOT to use their inner/outer boxing. This would, again, be around 1/4 to 1/5th of what we spend on it now. So we're close to final sign off and I promise you the comment from the OEM in china will be. WTH are you thinking? We're shipping you all of this "air"(non finished product) that you have to unbox every unit just to bolt in your driver, then rebox. Just let us build you the 12/15" driver and finish it for you here.

I've been through these conversations plenty of times sitting at the board meetings with SVS. And from a business POV it is tough to make any arguments really.

The only other way is if I found an investor for PSA willing to put in a *lot* of money(500k) for us to go vertical on the enclosures, drivers, and possible the electronics as well. By "vertical" I mean we do it all in house. We stock all the materials, purchase/lease a commercial 6 axis CNC($250,000?), purchase/lease a spray system($75,000?) add another 3000 sq-ft of warehouse, hiring another employee or two, etc. Doing drivers in house wouldn't cost nearly as much. Steve Ponte schooled me(and the rest of svs) on this a long time ago. Maybe 25k + one new employee.

The benefits of this would impact PSA in a variety of ways that are tough to overstate(think 75k in savings immediately just in inventory on site). But it is really just a dream unless I suddenly hit the lotto.


So, no $700 subs anytime soon..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Just out of curiosity, have you ever thought about going public with your company? I'm sure you know what you're doing and where you're going, but it would be a great way to raise funds for your vertical expansion. Very few have 1/2 a million lying around for investment these days - but I'm sure many on here (at least) would consider buying shares. Then again you might be perfectly happy with your growth and where you're at now, and growth at the expense of profits isn't always the smart move. Just a thought
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post #27374 of 37582 Old 07-10-2016, 12:14 PM
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post #27375 of 37582 Old 07-10-2016, 02:56 PM
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There are plenty of budget subs on the market. PSA can't be all things to all people. Let someone else make $700 subs.


I have to sell my audio purchases to my wife and she understands Made in America and not much else when it comes to audio components. PSA is quality from beginning to end and you have to expect to pay a little more for that. My JBL towers of five years ago arrived in flimsy packaging. One of the plastic grill pins was broken and it still bothers me today. PSA components arrive in second to none thick cardboard packaging well protected with foam inserts. There would have to be serious mishandling to damage them in shipping. And that is just the beginning. Pull the grill and you will find steel pins instead of plastic. And best of all they sound great.


My vote is to stick with uncompromised quality made in USA including the cabinets.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Not possible unless we do something turn-key china. Or, at the least go back to the stone-age(for me) and import chinese made non DSP amplifiers to use. The ICE stuff we use now costs about 4x (per watt) versus a good quality BASH amp without a DSP frontend. And if we're importing amps we'd need to think long/hard about the enclosure too as that is going to be about 1/3rd the cost to us.

Now once we approve the enclosure + amp, it wouldn't make sense NOT to use their inner/outer boxing. This would, again, be around 1/4 to 1/5th of what we spend on it now. So we're close to final sign off and I promise you the comment from the OEM in china will be. WTH are you thinking? We're shipping you all of this "air"(non finished product) that you have to unbox every unit just to bolt in your driver, then rebox. Just let us build you the 12/15" driver and finish it for you here.

I've been through these conversations plenty of times sitting at the board meetings with SVS. And from a business POV it is tough to make any arguments really.

The only other way is if I found an investor for PSA willing to put in a *lot* of money(500k) for us to go vertical on the enclosures, drivers, and possible the electronics as well. By "vertical" I mean we do it all in house. We stock all the materials, purchase/lease a commercial 6 axis CNC($250,000?), purchase/lease a spray system($75,000?) add another 3000 sq-ft of warehouse, hiring another employee or two, etc. Doing drivers in house wouldn't cost nearly as much. Steve Ponte schooled me(and the rest of svs) on this a long time ago. Maybe 25k + one new employee.

The benefits of this would impact PSA in a variety of ways that are tough to overstate(think 75k in savings immediately just in inventory on site). But it is really just a dream unless I suddenly hit the lotto.


So, no $700 subs anytime soon..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

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post #27376 of 37582 Old 07-10-2016, 03:39 PM
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Question to about the anti mode dual core. Do you run the setup software ie MCACC, Audyssey after. I have a Pioneer Elite so MCACC makes additional eq changes to my subs after anti mode. Is that how it is supposed to be or do I not let MCACC eq the subs after anti mode?

Thank you.


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post #27377 of 37582 Old 07-10-2016, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
Question to about the anti mode dual core. Do you run the setup software ie MCACC, Audyssey after. I have a Pioneer Elite so MCACC makes additional eq changes to my subs after anti mode. Is that how it is supposed to be or do I not let MCACC eq the subs after anti mode?

Thank you.


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I believe you do anti-mode first, then MCACC.
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post #27378 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 10:24 AM
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I haven't seen many of those but I do remember a couple where the first question asked was "Okay, cost per unit is what? Second question is "why aren't you having everything made in china"?

And to be honest, from a bean counter perspective, they're right.

I get like 50 of these conversations a month.

Potential customer: You know, what is most important to me is your trying to keep things on USA soil, that really means a LOT to me.

Me: Hey, I appreciate that. It can be difficult because most/all of our competition is sourcing everything from china so it costs us significantly more to manufacture our products.

Potential customer: Well, I'm going to either get your V1500 or the Acme wozer15 which is $999. So if you can lower your price to $999 I'll order right now.

Me: I'm sorry, we just can't do that. The wozer15 is a very good sub but being made in china allows acme to price it a little lower than we can.

Potential customer: Well, if you're willing to lose a sell over $100 I guess I'll have to go with the chinese made wozer.

-------end chat-------

So much for the "most important thing" stuff


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post #27379 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post
Just out of curiosity, have you ever thought about going public with your company? I'm sure you know what you're doing and where you're going, but it would be a great way to raise funds for your vertical expansion. Very few have 1/2 a million lying around for investment these days - but I'm sure many on here (at least) would consider buying shares. Then again you might be perfectly happy with your growth and where you're at now, and growth at the expense of profits isn't always the smart move. Just a thought
I really don't know much about the going public stuff but I'd guess a tiny company like PSA wouldn't qualify for a variety of reasons. But hey, go-fund-me a 6 axis and I'll begin the kickstarter for the driver engineering/assembly addition..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #27380 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I haven't seen many of those but I do remember a couple where the first question asked was "Okay, cost per unit is what? Second question is "why aren't you having everything made in china"?

And to be honest, from a bean counter perspective, they're right.

I get like 50 of these conversations a month.

Potential customer: You know, what is most important to me is your trying to keep things on USA soil, that really means a LOT to me.

Me: Hey, I appreciate that. It can be difficult because most/all of our competition is sourcing everything from china so it costs us significantly more to manufacture our products.

Potential customer: Well, I'm going to either get your V1500 or the Acme wozer15 which is $999. So if you can lower your price to $999 I'll order right now.

Me: I'm sorry, we just can't do that. The wozer15 is a very good sub but being made in china allows acme to price it a little lower than we can.

Potential customer: Well, if you're willing to lose a sell over $100 I guess I'll have to go with the chinese made wozer.

-------end chat-------

So much for the "most important thing" stuff


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
If we're serious about bringing manufacturing back to the US, we're going to have to understand that good, American sourced and made equipment will cost a little more. I like my AMERICAN MADE, HIGH QUALITY PSA gear!
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post #27381 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 10:31 AM
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I believe you do anti-mode first, then MCACC.
That usually works best, correct. Also, be sure to recheck the FRs after mcacc is finished too...just to be sure it didn't funkify anything for you.

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post #27382 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 12:11 PM
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funkify

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post #27383 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 12:13 PM
 
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funkify
clearly an industry term
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post #27384 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 01:56 PM
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clearly an industry term

Actually, a "PC" term.
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post #27385 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 02:49 PM
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I just watched the beginning of terminator genysis with my twins OMFG scary bass downright scary.

I named my two v3600i's the front one is James Westfall and the rear one is Dr. Kenneth Noisewater...


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post #27386 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 02:51 PM
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Atmos Recommendations

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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I just watched the first half of Mad Max FR at reference with the V1800's +6dB hot. I randomly played back and tested some of the bass scenes that sounded or felt good to me, and there were a few peaks of 117-120dB at my MLP! That was crazy loud, awesome, and thoroughly impressive considering the 5k^3 ft space. This really makes me wonder what an added V3600i in the back corner would do for me. Must...resist...temptation!

I should focus on installing the atmos speakers this weekend, and be happy that I have almost a week off for some sweet listening sessions. Any atmos movie recommendations from the PSA family?
The opening sequence of Unbreakable is fantastic. American Sniper, 13 Hours, Gravity, Everest, In the Heart of the Sea, John Wick, Lucy (Japanese Import version), Transformers: Age of Extinction, Roger Waters: The Wall, San Andreas, Mad Max Fury Road, Man from Uncle, Pan. That's a good start...and if you have kids Goosebumps and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are lots of fun too. There are a others, but that is just to get you pumped up and hooked on Atmos induced Nirvana (almost all of these have fantastic bass scenes as well to quench your thirst for massive subwoofer throttle).

Remember, Atmos is not just about sounds in the height speakers. There is a fantastic realism to Atmos tracks, and perfect object placement, plus uncanny in-room immersion, can be just as sexy as sounds booming from above IMO. I have a feeling you are gonna enjoy the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU) quite a bit as well. So throw on Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow, Avatar, and both Star Trek flicks...and you will see that DSU does a great job of creating an almost Pseudo-Atmos experience.

By the way...that bass pulse in the beginning of Edge of Tomorrow is breathtaking...my twins once again gave me a new experience watching a film I've watched multiple times before. Yes!!!!
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post #27387 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
I just watched the beginning of terminator genysis with my twins OMFG scary bass downright scary.

I named my two v3600i's the front one is James Westfall and the rear one is Dr. Kenneth Noisewater...


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Why am I drawing a blank as to what movies those names are from?

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Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
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post #27388 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
Why am I drawing a blank as to what movies those names are from?

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post #27389 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
https://youtu.be/gDyM1I9bxM4



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Hahah nice! That was driving me nuts for while lol

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1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s LCR
Ascend acoustics cmt 340se side ss.
ascend acoustics cbm170se rear ss
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
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post #27390 of 37582 Old 07-11-2016, 06:13 PM
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As part of our media room build I am creating a custom cabinet for my PSA V3600i.

This will be made in American Oak (appropriately given the recent forum chatter), with a preliminary design as below:

FRONT:


REAR:


As you can see the sub will be sitting directly on the floor (tiled over concrete) with acoustic mats between the sub and tiles. The rear of the cabinet will be open and the front will have a speaker grill.

I am considering the utility of acoustic treatments on the other internal surfaces of the cabinet and would appreciate any feedback on this.

If beneficial, I could also include speaker grills or slots in the wood on the side panels. This can be for both cosmetic and functional purposes. Thoughts?





This is a work in progress and will be completely custom made so I can incorporate any worthwhile ideas.

I look forward to any advice and experience.

PS. I have already had a good read through this forum topic

Addit - I just found this Sound and Vision article that I will read through as well.

Last edited by timi2fly; 07-11-2016 at 06:21 PM.
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Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , s7201 , v1500 , V1800 , v1801 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15

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