Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 931 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #27901 of 29816 Old 08-01-2016, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
If it were possible I feel like it would sound perfect if I could hover just an inch over the couch or so and listen. I just feel like those "tactical vibrations" I get don't exactly match up with the beat.
Possible some of them might not. Soundwaves can travel much faster through solid mediums, such as over an order of magnitude faster through wood than air. I have no idea if that's within ability of humans to sense, though, when subs are in that proximity.

Then if these critical listening tracks are ones that you used to listen to before you had all 4 subs, your frequency response in the room is different. So room interactions could be different as well from what you are used to.
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post #27902 of 29816 Old 08-01-2016, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Then if these critical listening tracks are ones that you used to listen to before you had all 4 subs, your frequency response in the room is different. So room interactions could be different as well from what you are used to.

That's very true Charlie. There are so many variables it's just hard to say.


Who's knows, maybe the tactical response I'm getting is just something my ears need to adapt to more. Time will tell

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post #27903 of 29816 Old 08-01-2016, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
Subs are wired via lfe input from my dennon x4100. Distance is set by audyssey and later tweaker slightly by me to fix a slight dip in the frequency around 60hz if I remeber corectly
This is probably not your case, but sometimes when you tweak distances you can end up with a set of subs a full cycle behind (360° out of phase).
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post #27904 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 05:39 AM
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So this happened today

"Dadda..stand on speaker!"
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post #27905 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 07:11 AM
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^ Ha Ha Ha. New marketing slogan: PSA subs… A thousand and one uses in one mighty box.
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post #27906 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 09:45 AM
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Nice little NES collection there too
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post #27907 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
So this happened today

"Dadda..stand on speaker!"
The subwoofer says

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post #27908 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 11:32 AM
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This is one reason why being a human being is awesome

Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
Thanks for the response Alan.

Yes that is exactly what I mean. And it's not all the time but more when I'm just doing critical listening with certain tracks.

If it were possible I feel like it would sound perfect if I could hover just an inch over the couch or so and listen. I just feel like those "tactical vibrations" I get don't exactly match up with the beat.

I'm glad to you have also had similar experiences, makes me feel not so crazy haha

I am not a bass scientist and I know for sure that there are members here that know much more about engineering and speaker design than I do. However, I can kind of intuitively understand what newc33 means by his description of the "bass lag" or "bass thickness" he is describing. We have to remember that people experience life through their senses and every experience is entirely unique. We can agree on verbal terms and similar experiences, but I can't ever truly know exactly how someone else is experiencing the world around them. I can guesstimate based on what I am feeling/experiencing and take the verbal information in from what the other person is telling me, but unless we do a Vulcan mind-meld, I can't know exactly how another human being is interpreting sensory/neural stimuli through his/her own nervous system. There could be various reasons why newc33 is experiencing the sound in his room as he describes it. Perhaps, since he is not only hearing the bass information but also processing information via tactile response (physically feeling the information) that due to very personal (psycho-acoustic/psycho-neural/psycho-emotional/psycho-social) and unique reasons....he is experiencing the stimuli through his nervous system and sensory organs uniquely at varied speeds and intensities. For some, we may experience the information faster by ear than via tactile (skin/bones/muscles) response....for others, vice versa. Thus, in this instance, newc33 has interpreted his environment as having a uniquely perceived lag. It sounds like if he got up off the seat, he would experience his environment differently, and no longer hear the bass as thick or slow in any way and it would now be just right (for him). Life is cool like dat.
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post #27909 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 12:51 PM
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Brahman12 that is a very interesting way of looking at things.

It's not only hard to understand what people are hearing by the way they describe it in words but everyone's body's process sound differently. Weather it's by the ear or by feeling. That's a very good point

Even a def person that Can not hear at all can still feel low frequency and their brain I would imagine can process these vibrations and act as if they were hearing it I bet.

When's things get this technical its just almost impossible to have a complete understanding of what someone is hearing and why, let alone give advice in how to fix the problem.

I once jokingly told tom he needs a team like geek squad to go to people's houses and help them in there home. Sometimes is impossible to help unless you are also in the room
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post #27910 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 01:07 PM
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Hey guy's I think I'm leaning towards the V3600i in a a couple of days. Can you guys give me some first hand thoughts on the sub in regards to durability at high SPL for extended periods of time, any notice mechanical issues or sound.

Thank you,

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post #27911 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
Hey guy's I think I'm leaning towards the V3600i in a a couple of days. Can you guys give me some first hand thoughts on the sub in regards to durability at high SPL for extended periods of time, any notice mechanical issues or sound.

Thank you,
I have the sealed version (dual s3600i's)

Tom and his team spend a lot of time with things like dsp to make there subs as bulletproof as possible without making them sound bad at high volumes around max output.

I wouldn't be concerned with how the v3600 will performe when pushed hard. I would first be worried about how your ears will handle the spl.

The amps psa uses will indeed get pretty hot. Usually my sp2400 stay near room temp while the ice amp in the 3600s get much warmer. It's simply because of the designe. The ice amp gets hot but it's completly normal and shouldn't be cause for concern.

I know it's a different sub but if you want to see how the psa triax handles when pushed just look up blackmombakilla on YouTube. Or just search pas triax and his videos will come up. There are several of them, but in Many videos he's pushing well over 120db and the subs don't seem to Break a sweat!

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post #27912 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
…. he's pushing well over 120db and the subs don't seem to handle very well
Typo? Must have been

I think the point is that PSA subs are designed to be pushed to the limits without causing damage to themselves. Just take a look at the compression measurements on the website to get a bit of an idea how the subs behave near the limits (which I doubt you will hit in the V3600!). They are also fully tested and burned in before shipping to you. No worries about a break-in period (i.e. brand new car, but don't go over 4500 RPM for 3000 miles… damn!).
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post #27913 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 02:52 PM
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Yes its a typo...BMK's video shows dual Triax's hitting 126-128db 26ft away and loving life doing it.




On a side note I have 3 725watt ICE amp upgrades out for delivery. Looks like I will be the first test mule for those looking to upgrade from the Bash amps.

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post #27914 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
On a side note I have 3 725watt ICE amp upgrades out for delivery. Looks like I will be the first test mule for those looking to upgrade from the Bash amps.
Weren't you thinking about doing that a long time ago? What was the hold up??
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post #27915 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 03:19 PM
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Weren't you thinking about doing that a long time ago? What was the hold up??
Yea Tom and I talked about it and thought it probably was not worth doing for the cost. Then about 2 weeks ago, Tom contacted me saying they were considering offering it as a upgrade. Jim evidently found some new untapped performance by playing with the DSP. Looks like in room extension down into the 14hz range and a slight bump in output as well. There is also some other perks involved.

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Yea Tom and I talked about it and thought it probably was not worth doing for the cost. Then about 2 weeks ago, Tom contacted me saying they were considering offering it as a upgrade. Jim evidently found some new untapped performance by playing with the DSP. Looks like in room extension down into the 14hz range and a slight bump in output as well. There is also some other perks involved.

You held out longer than most bh. We all cave eventually!
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post #27917 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 03:34 PM
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yea tom and i talked about it and thought it probably was not worth doing for the cost. Then about 2 weeks ago, tom contacted me saying they were considering offering it as a upgrade. Jim evidently found some new untapped performance by playing with the dsp. looks like in room extension down into the 14hz range and a slight bump in output as well. There is also some other perks involved.
suh-weet :d
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Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
Hey guy's I think I'm leaning towards the V3600i in a a couple of days. Can you guys give me some first hand thoughts on the sub in regards to durability at high SPL for extended periods of time, any notice mechanical issues or sound.

Thank you,
I can give you some first hand thoughts regarding the V3600's durability when played at high SPL for extended periods of time: simply put they're BEASTS!

I'll elaborate by adding that I watch movies anywhere from -9 to -12 but I'm running my trim 9 dB hot so my V3600's play at or around reference. In all honesty they have never showed any sign of breaking a sweat. I haven't noticed any port chuff or any other sound that would indicate they are struggling in any way. With the "Auto On" function they kick on when they're supposed to and then do their job with ease. Seriously, I've yet to have any problem with them.

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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Yes its a typo...BMK's video shows dual Triax's hitting 126-128db 26ft away and loving life doing it.



On a side note I have 3 725watt ICE amp upgrades out for delivery. Looks like I will be the first test mule for those looking to upgrade from the Bash amps.
First off, I miss BMK. He was pretty cool.


Secondly, Basshead your upgrade has grabbed my attention. This is very exciting. I still own a XV15SE so I'll be very interested to read your thoughts. By the sounds of it it may be like you just bought yourself some newer, more powerful subs. Congrats my friend.

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post #27920 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I can give you some first hand thoughts regarding the V3600's durability when played at high SPL for extended periods of time: simply put they're BEASTS!

I'll elaborate by adding that I watch movies anywhere from -9 to -12 but I'm running my trim 9 dB hot so my V3600's play at or around reference. In all honesty they have never showed any sign of breaking a sweat. I haven't noticed any port chuff or any other sound that would indicate they are struggling in any way. With the "Auto On" function they kick on when they're supposed to and then do their job with ease. Seriously, I've yet to have any problem with them.
Thank you! Exactly what I want to hear. More and more I'm leaning towards the V3600i.
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Typo? Must have been

I think the point is that PSA subs are designed to be pushed to the limits without causing damage to themselves. Just take a look at the compression measurements on the website to get a bit of an idea how the subs behave near the limits (which I doubt you will hit in the V3600!). They are also fully tested and burned in before shipping to you. No worries about a break-in period (i.e. brand new car, but don't go over 4500 RPM for 3000 miles… damn!).

Typo! Sorry guys! Editing now.

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post #27922 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 07:16 PM
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Oh yeah, in my case I am certain that it is the source.

Like I said, it is kind of rare...most recordings that I am intimately familiar with and know sound outstanding, sound outstanding. It's just that rare track....

I'll try to see if I can find one tonight and report back. I swear there was something that I just got that had this issue.....maybe the latest Coldplay*(?).


*Don't you dare judge me!
That reminds me of this track. Whenever my calibration ends up poorly, bass feels weird and detached in this one. Like it has extra echo at full loudness. Try it.


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post #27923 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Yea Tom and I talked about it and thought it probably was not worth doing for the cost. Then about 2 weeks ago, Tom contacted me saying they were considering offering it as a upgrade. Jim evidently found some new untapped performance by playing with the DSP. Looks like in room extension down into the 14hz range and a slight bump in output as well. There is also some other perks involved.
Is it too much trouble to ask you to provide a comparison of before and after the amp upgrade? Curious minds like to know.

I thought you are still holding out for V2100...
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post #27924 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
First off, I miss BMK. He was pretty cool.


Secondly, Basshead your upgrade has grabbed my attention. This is very exciting. I still own a XV15SE so I'll be very interested to read your thoughts. By the sounds of it it may be like you just bought yourself some newer, more powerful subs. Congrats my friend.
Thanks! Sounds like the XV15se was amp limited down low. Tom said something like 6-9db more output in the 14-16 hz. +1.5db up top.

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post #27925 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 07:57 PM
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Is it too much trouble to ask you to provide a comparison of before and after the amp upgrade? Curious minds like to know.

I thought you are still holding out for V2100...
Yes no problem...V2100 does not sound like it will make production any time soon and I really need a different room to change subs. These XV sub's fit the bill for this room which is why I have stuck with them. I know they might not be the newest most powerful sub on the block but they get the job done.

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Thanks! Sounds like the XV15se was amp limited down low. Tom said something like 6-9db more output in the 14-16 hz. +1.5db up top.

Dang 6-9db between 14 and 16 hz! That's more of a difference than duals would make in that same range. Sounds like it will be a worthwhile upgrade for sure. Nice to see an extra db or 2 up top also
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post #27927 of 29816 Old 08-02-2016, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
Dang 6-9db between 14 and 16 hz! That's more of a difference than duals would make in that same range. Sounds like it will be a worthwhile upgrade for sure. Nice to see an extra db or 2 up top also
Yep just went back over the email and he said 3-9db in the 15-25hz. Mainly due to the response shape. The SE models roll off much faster below 20hz then the original XV and the 15v. I definitely lost 14-16hz output with the SE upgrade but gained at 20hz and the sound quality was much improved. Looks like the ICE amp might offer the best of both worlds. Improved SQ, deeper extension, a tad more output up top, and a new 5yr warranty.

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post #27928 of 29816 Old 08-03-2016, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Yep just went back over the email and he said 3-9db in the 15-25hz…. the ICE amp might offer the best of both worlds. Improved SQ, deeper extension, a tad more output up top, and a new 5yr warranty.

You had me at "ICE amp".

3-9dB gain from 15-25Hz? New 5 year warranty? And you still have all the perks of the SE upgrade? WOW!

I was interested before but now I find myself contemplating a future upgrade. Dang you Basshead!
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post #27929 of 29816 Old 08-03-2016, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Thanks! Sounds like the XV15se was amp limited down low. Tom said something like 6-9db more output in the 14-16 hz. +1.5db up top.
I might have worded things less than clear during our discussions basshead, sorry. When we we're discussing the FR changes, those will be significant <25hz. So a FR check will likely have the new ICE version 3-9dB higher in the 15-25hz range.

But in terms of maximum headroom, the differences won't be nearly that large. There's variables involved but I would expect something like 1-1.5dB or so depending the type of test procedures used. Now, depending on any gain structure limitations the potential is there to see higher headroom gains of course.

As to why I've contacted several customers about this(being an "early" adopter)---I get a few inquires a week about this and I always say it really isn't worth the costs involved so we're not even offering it as an option. Then the more I thought about it the more I figured maybe we should offer it---and let each customer make that decision for themselves. I know how I feel about the difference. There are improvements. Some might consider them worth the cost. But I want to be able to point to real customer feedback on this when the time comes---trying t keep my own bias to a minimum.

Anyway, I mention the costs above and this won't be cheap. We're not looking to make any net profit on the upgrade but the amp cost to us, the time to program and test it for each application, boxing and shipping to the customer, a return label for the old bash amp, updating all of our records to reflect this purchase and reset the product warranty...all of this is going to add up. Right now we're around $350 per unit.

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“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" --- Ben Franklin
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post #27930 of 29816 Old 08-03-2016, 08:08 AM
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So this is only for XV's? I have 2 OG XS30's I never even did the SE upgrade to because I didn't feel it was worth it.
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