Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 951 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28501 of 28522 Old Today, 05:57 AM
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Another thought: what is the proper (or most agreed upon) steps for calibration? Sub placement, AVR calibration, REW, room treatment in that order? Or is there a different, more agreed upon, route to take?

Thanks again!!!
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post #28502 of 28522 Old Today, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
Another thought: what is the proper (or most agreed upon) steps for calibration? Sub placement, AVR calibration, REW, room treatment in that order? Or is there a different, more agreed upon, route to take?

Thanks again!!!
place sub...take REW measurements...move sub repeat...find the best location for the sub...THEN run AVR calibration.

room treatments for bass need to be 4-6 feet deep to make any real impact to the subwoofer frequencies...so worry about broadband room treatments....but that isnt for this thread
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post #28503 of 28522 Old Today, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
place sub...take REW measurements...move sub repeat...find the best location for the sub...THEN run AVR calibration.

room treatments for bass need to be 4-6 feet deep to make any real impact to the subwoofer frequencies...so worry about broadband room treatments....but that isnt for this thread


Thanks! Makes complete sense. Much appreciated.
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post #28504 of 28522 Old Today, 07:17 AM
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Can't you just put the sub in the MLP and move the mic around to different possible sub locations? Or does it not work like that?

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post #28505 of 28522 Old Today, 07:20 AM
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Can't you just put the sub in the MLP and move the mic around to different possible sub locations? Or does it not work like that?
you could i suppose...but for me..i would rather the sub be exactly where it would end up....moving the mic an inch or two can change its readings....so imho mic at MLP and moving the sub is the best approach
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post #28506 of 28522 Old Today, 07:25 AM
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Can't you just put the sub in the MLP and move the mic around to different possible sub locations? Or does it not work like that?
Not really. You will lose boundary gain and the comb filtering (room modes) will be different. The sub's distance from objects directly influences the room interaction due to the length of the waves.
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post #28507 of 28522 Old Today, 07:27 AM
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That makes sense. In my current situation I only really have 2 open spots for both subs to live so I have to put them there, but in the future, this is good to know.

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post #28508 of 28522 Old Today, 07:41 AM
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That makes sense. In my current situation I only really have 2 open spots for both subs to live so I have to put them there, but in the future, this is good to know.
you get those 3000i's yet?

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post #28509 of 28522 Old Today, 07:42 AM
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I'm actually about to get on the site and talk to Tom right now!

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post #28510 of 28522 Old Today, 08:11 AM
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Not really. You will lose boundary gain and the comb filtering (room modes) will be different. The sub's distance from objects directly influences the room interaction due to the length of the waves.

Wouldn't the same be true with the sub crawl then? Just curious because doing the sub crawl yielded very little for me. Corners all sound good, but everywhere else I heard little to no bass. BUT, putting the sub beside one speaker as suggested, I have good bass in the MLP. If I relied exclusively on the sub crawl, I would never have placed the sub there.
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post #28511 of 28522 Old Today, 08:30 AM
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you get those 3000i's yet?
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I'm actually about to get on the site and talk to Tom right now!
Done and done... They'll be here Thursday.

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post #28512 of 28522 Old Today, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
Wouldn't the same be true with the sub crawl then? Just curious because doing the sub crawl yielded very little for me. Corners all sound good, but everywhere else I heard little to no bass. BUT, putting the sub beside one speaker as suggested, I have good bass in the MLP. If I relied exclusively on the sub crawl, I would never have placed the sub there.
That is the purpose of the sub crawl. To find the location in the room where the sub/room interaction provides the best response. This is how you find a home for the sub to reduce or eliminate nulls or peaks at the MLP. The mains also effect the sub even with the crossover set due to the fact that crossovers are not brick walls and allow freqs on either side to pass somewhat. This is usually the cause of nulls or dips at the crossover freq. Bass is a fickle beast and some get lucky with their "aesthetic" placements.
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post #28513 of 28522 Old Today, 09:01 AM
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There are a lot of problems with the sub crawl. The biggest being that our ears aren't the best measuring devices. So if we play some material and hear a decent boom when it hits a particular bass range (say 45 to 60 Hz), it sticks out in our brain and we assume that it's a good place for the sub, even though what we really heard was a peak and in reality there are dips and nulls above and below where the peak is. Then if you put your sub there you end up with a one note wonder.
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Here's my personal REW lesson:

Allow me to go back a number of years… I originally placed my first real sub using the sub crawl and I had it there for about 18 months and I kept convincing myself I had great bass but deep down inside I knew it wasn't. Then I got the XV15. I put the sub in the same location. The bass was better because the sub was better but it still was lacking. Then after saying for a year I was going to get REW I finally did and what I learned was shocking. I had two major dips one between 35 to 45 Hz and one around 70 Hz. That's a lot of bass I was missing out on. By moving my sub a foot or so and using the phase knob properly, things changed dramatically… for the better. Once I saw what was going on things got a lot easier.
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post #28515 of 28522 Old Today, 09:27 AM
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There are a lot of problems with the sub crawl. The biggest being that our ears aren't the best measuring devices. So if we play some material and hear a decent boom when it hits a particular bass range (say 45 to 60 Hz), it sticks out in our brain and we assume that it's a good place for the sub, even though what we really heard was a peak and in reality there are dips and nulls above and below where the peak is. Then if you put your sub there you end up with a one note wonder.
This is true. I always try to remember to suggest using a variety of demo scenes---both music and movies for each location check. Keep notes over say 4-5 songs and 4-5 movie scenes. Then try the 2-3 positions that ended up with the highest cumulative score.

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post #28516 of 28522 Old Today, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
There are a lot of problems with the sub crawl. The biggest being that our ears aren't the best measuring devices. So if we play some material and hear a decent boom when it hits a particular bass range (say 45 to 60 Hz), it sticks out in our brain and we assume that it's a good place for the sub, even though what we really heard was a peak and in reality there are dips and nulls above and below where the peak is. Then if you put your sub there you end up with a one note wonder.
I would say there are a lot of potential problems with the sub crawl. Veteran enthusiasts who advise on this method usually say to test with a bunch of material and locations, rather than just a single song.
The sub crawl is a great method if used correctly. Just like a lot of other methods throughout the setup process.

It's good that you pointed out what to be aware of though to avoid a bad sub crawl.
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Anyone happen to know the frequencies for the "door knocking" in Pink Floyd's One of These Days?

Thanks.

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Which version are you talking about?
Original vinyl?
Original Japanese vinyl?
MFSL UD?
MFSL UDII?
the Doug Sax 1994 remaster?
the James Guthrie remaster?
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Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
Another thought: what is the proper (or most agreed upon) steps for calibration? Sub placement, AVR calibration, REW, room treatment in that order?
I'm sure it's far from perfect but you can use REW's Room Simulation. I found it spot on after x measurements (even though my room isn't actually rectangular - it has a bump out and in). Plus it's a lot less work (and time) than moving subs, measuring and repeating untold times.
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Which version are you talking about?
Original vinyl?
Original Japanese vinyl?
MFSL UD?
MFSL UDII?
the Doug Sax 1994 remaster?
the James Guthrie remaster?
Yeah, right? I found out how many versions there were after a little more homework..

Really good demo stuff though. I need to expand my mind and its not even Friday...

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Another thought: what is the proper (or most agreed upon) steps for calibration? Sub placement, AVR calibration, REW, room treatment in that order? Or is there a different, more agreed upon, route to take?

Thanks again!!!
I recommend
1) Proper placement
2) REW or other EQ measurements of the sub(move if necessary) and apply adjustments to the DSP if applicable
3) AVR calibration using the sub's new EQ settings and location so it can calculate distance and delay based on the flatter response the EQ gives

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post #28522 of 28522 Old Today, 02:29 PM
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Spoiler!
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