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post #4231 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 02:01 PM
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Anyone try Auralex GRAMMA? Does it make the difference what that reviews say?
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post #4232 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

Anyone try Auralex GRAMMA? Does it make the difference what that reviews say?
It has no measurable effect. It does do well as a placebo, so those who think they hear a difference give it positive reviews.

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post #4233 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 03:24 PM
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The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.

+1 Sound waves travel just the same if your sub is sitting on a sheet of paper or a 8” sheet of jell pack.

Morpheus: I imagine that right now you're feeling a bit like Alice. Tumbling down the rabbit hole?
Neo: You could say that.
Morpheus: I can see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he's expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo: No.
Morpheus: Why not?
Neo: 'Cause I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.
Morpheus: I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know, you can't explain. But you feel it. You felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind -- driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Neo: The Matrix?
Morpheus: Do you want to know what it is?
(Neo nods his head.)
Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere, it is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, or when go to church or when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage, born inside a prison that you cannot smell, taste, or touch. A prison for your mind. (long pause, sighs) Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back.
(In his left hand, Morpheus shows a blue pill.)
Morpheus: You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. (a red pill is shown in his other hand) You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. (Long pause; Neo begins to reach for the red pill) Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.
(Neo takes the red pill and swallows it with a glass of water)

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post #4234 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It has no measurable effect. It does do well as a placebo, so those who think they hear a difference give it positive reviews.

Don't think it will make any FR difference, but wonder if it would help with rattle
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post #4235 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

Don't think it will make any FR difference, but wonder if it would help with rattle

Hey mp.. It’s the sound waves/pressure that makes things rattle.

EDIT> Been trying to think of a analogy that might help you understand, I’ll rely on one I have used in the past. Say, just say you have a souped up hot-rod.. you then park your car in the garage with it’s header’s uncorked and shut the door to the garage and rev up the engine. You’re going to feel the sound waves and the pressure that ensues. Now do the same with the car sitting on what you mentioned under each tire. Do you think they will tone things down?

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post #4236 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

Don't think it will make any FR difference, but wonder if it would help with rattle
The rattle is caused by the ten to forty foot long wavelengths created by the sub, not by contact between the sub and the floor. If you need proof play something that gets stuff in the room rattling and while it's happening lift the sub off the floor. That simple experiment will keep you from wasting fifty bucks.

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post #4237 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 07:58 PM
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Just wishful thinking I guess.
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post #4238 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 08:02 PM
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At one point I had 4 Emptek 1010i's in two stacks in the front of my living room system. I had the hard plastic feet right on my hardwood floors. I built my own isolation platforms. Before the platforms I ran Audyssey and it set the sub level. I installed the platforms and ran Audyssey and it set the subs 5-7db lower. There was nothing else that changed although a month had passed from the first time I ran Audyssey until I made the platforms. Not saying it will work in all situations, but it did make a difference according to Audyssey levels. I will try to find the post I made about it. It may be on a different forum. I have sold all but 1 of those subs, I can try to run it again sometime.

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post #4239 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 08:06 PM
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Maybe I will get one to do before and after REW measurements to see any difference. With my xv30f coming, I would need 4
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post #4240 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 08:13 PM
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On different subject, I sometimes felt like I just wasn't getting enough in your chest pressure with my 3 xv15s. Even after i got fairly flat curve on REW. I thought it was in my head. Well to get the audyssey 75 db for sub cal, I had mine gain on subs at 12. Not a good at all.. I set them to 3. Now I feel it. Maybe too much. I haven't measured it again with REW . I will be doing that when the xv30f comes.

These subs like high gain.
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post #4241 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 08:18 PM
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You can make them for almost nothing. Buy a piece of 3/4 inch MDF at Home Depot and use the packing foam from the PSA shipping box. Should be about $10.

I wouldn't use one on a carpeted floor.

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post #4242 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

On different subject, I sometimes felt like I just wasn't getting enough in your chest pressure with my 3 xv15s. Even after i got fairly flat curve on REW. I thought it was in my head. Well to get the audyssey 75 db for sub cal, I had mine gain on subs at 12. Not a good at all.. I set them to 3. Now I feel it. Maybe too much. I haven't measured it again with REW . I will be doing that when the xv30f comes.

These subs like high gain.

Did you run Audyssey again after changing the gain?

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post #4243 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Did you run Audyssey again after changing the gain?

No. I know audyssey is going to say is like 100db at the mic. And put sub trim to something ridiculous . If I make audyssey happy, the subs sound crap
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post #4244 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 09:02 PM
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No. I know audyssey is going to say is like 100db at the mic. And put sub trim to something ridiculous . If I make audyssey happy, the subs sound crap

Ok, so you are probably running your subs 'hot'.

Similar results could be had by running Audyssey and then just increasing the sub gain within the receiver. I run mine about 3db higher than what Audyssey calculates.

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post #4245 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 09:09 PM
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Yes. My point is that even if you run it hot on receiver it's not same as running it hot on the sub. Many people here have said PSA subs like to be set at 1 to 3
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post #4246 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 09:11 PM
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When I was running it hot on the receiver it was not giving me what i wanted. I got it when I turn up the sub gain and turn down the receiver sub trim
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post #4247 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 09:12 PM
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I run my XV30F at between 2-3. Was at first disappointed with the performance because the manual/instructions recommend something lower and I thought I had done something wrong.

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post #4248 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

Yes. My point is that even if you run it hot on receiver it's not same as running it hot on the sub. Many people here have said PSA subs like to be set at 1 to 3

I have read that here as well but never tried it.

Ed at SVS mentioned something about that to me for my SB13+ subs too. I never tried though as I am satisfied with the results.

I wonder how it would sound if you ran Audyssey with the subs at 3 o'clock? That may not be possible though with 3 of them all set at that gain. I will have to check mine. I have 3 also (as well as a PB12+ and 2 PB12+/2's) in my gameroom and I think the gain is around 11-12 o'clock on each. These are all son to be replaced by 2 Triax's soon!!

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post #4249 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 09:27 PM
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Can you do a plot so we can see what you're experiencing?

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post #4250 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

Can you do a plot so we can see what you're experiencing?

Who are you asking?

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post #4251 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 10:04 PM
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I have found that my xv15's sound best with the sub gain set between 2-3:00 and the avr trimmed back to around -2.5. Going positive on the avr sub trim seems to kill headroom and anything less than 2:00 on the sub kills headroom. There is a sweet spot these subs like to be set at...if they are not set in this window, then you are missing substantial output. This is just my experience from trying every combination of settings possible. I can say for a fact that if ones room is less than 3000^3 and you are not getting bone jarring, vision blurring, ear popping bass out of a parir of xv15's, then they are not setup correctly.
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post #4252 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Who are you asking?

Sorry about that.. mp5475

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post #4253 of 12905 Old 07-13-2013, 10:29 PM
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I can say for a fact that if ones room is less than 3000^3 and you are not getting bone jarring, vision blurring, ear popping bass out of a parir of xv15's, then they are not setup correctly.

I would think so, something is off.

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post #4254 of 12905 Old 07-14-2013, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you sub gurus think the Triax will be able to hang with the JTR Cap S2 ? Performance wise, output, extension...

What are ya'll expecting with this sub?

The Triax and Cap 2 share some similarities. In that going with several good drivers is better than going with one large uber driver. They should also both have impressive output. It will likely come down to xmax, cone areas, how the DSP is programed.But both will likely be impressive. In other words I except the Triax to be very good, up there with all the top subs currently being recommended.

the only issues is I'm not sure how much cone area 3X15's actually have. In that I'm not sure if the Triax has less or more surface area than the Cap 2.

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post #4255 of 12905 Old 07-14-2013, 01:58 AM
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The Triax and Cap 2 share some similarities. In that going with several good drivers is better than going with one large uber driver. They should also both have impressive output. It will likely come down to xmax, cone areas, how the DSP is programed.But both will likely be impressive. In other words I except the Triax to be very good, up there with all the top subs currently being recommended.

the only issues is I'm not sure how much cone area 3X15's actually have. In that I'm not sure if the Triax has less or more surface area than the Cap 2.

The S2 has about 510 square inches of surface area just by going by the surface area of 18 inch diameter circle. The triax would have 528 going with the surface area if a 15 inch diameter circle. I know that each driver may vary a bit and that they are concave so would each have more surface area but this should be close.
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post #4256 of 12905 Old 07-14-2013, 02:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

The S2 has about 510 square inches of surface area just by going by the surface area of 18 inch diameter circle. The triax would have 528 going with the surface area if a 15 inch diameter circle. I know that each driver may vary a bit and that they are concave so would each have more surface area but this should be close.

Thanks Rayinst I didn't want to estimate and have someone quote what I said as a fact.

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post #4257 of 12905 Old 07-14-2013, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

The S2 has about 510 square inches of surface area just by going by the surface area of 18 inch diameter circle. The triax would have 528 going with the surface area if a 15 inch diameter circle. I know that each driver may vary a bit and that they are concave so would each have more surface area but this should be close.
Curious, How did you calculate that? What xmax did you use for each?
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post #4258 of 12905 Old 07-14-2013, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I have found that my xv15's sound best with the sub gain set between 2-3:00 and the avr trimmed back to around -2.5. Going positive on the avr sub trim seems to kill headroom and anything less than 2:00 on the sub kills headroom. There is a sweet spot these subs like to be set at...if they are not set in this window, then you are missing substantial output. This is just my experience from trying every combination of settings possible. I can say for a fact that if ones room is less than 3000^3 and you are not getting bone jarring, vision blurring, ear popping bass out of a parir of xv15's, then they are not setup correctly.

My observation exactly . Although I need to set my receiver trim at -5.
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post #4259 of 12905 Old 07-14-2013, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

When I was running it hot on the receiver it was not giving me what i wanted. I got it when I turn up the sub gain and turn down the receiver sub trim

So are you pretty much dialed in now mp, or feel you’re well on your way?

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post #4260 of 12905 Old 07-14-2013, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

On different subject, I sometimes felt like I just wasn't getting enough in your chest pressure with my 3 xv15s. Even after i got fairly flat curve on REW. I thought it was in my head. Well to get the audyssey 75 db for sub cal, I had mine gain on subs at 12.

Hi mp5475, curious what the receiver set the sub trim to with xv15s gain at 12?
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