Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 438 - AVS Forum
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post #13111 of 13128 Old Today, 04:57 PM
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first impressions with the XV15se's. meh. I haven't yet ran audyssey or gotten into any calibration/setup with them to reach their full potential. I just wanted to hook them up and see what the difference would be from the dual Dayton 1200's.

I don't really get that visceral feel I was hoping for. The gain on subs is about 2 o'clock; AVR -8.5db; crossovers on front stage 80hz; LPF to LFE 120 (it goes up to 210hz!). I will say that the XV's definitely provide more content, lower, and don't sound bloated or droning. They have a richness to them that the daytons could never match. They are clearly a better speaker than the lil 1200's

Right now i have them in the front of the room, flanking the tv/avr. One in each corner. Given their size, I may end up going wireless with them and moving them back by the couches, as they could be used as endtables lol. That would undoubtedly give viewers a more involved experience.

But yeah, I need to do some setup and view some LFE heavy movies to see what's really going on. I guess I had my hopes up too high, given the price difference between these and the Daytons. Again, these sound much better than the Daytons but they don't seem to hit as hard (yet). At roughly thirteen times the cost of the Daytons...I was hoping for more right out of the box.

Like I said though, I need a proper setup and some more testing. I know there is more out there, but I'm skeptical at just how much.

My back is very messed up right now, so moving these things isn't going to happen until that's better. Hopefully soon.


There are some things that concern me about the subs, however. The pots on the crossover knob (on both subs) are a bit scratchy towards max/min. I didn't adjust while the sub was on, but feeling scratchy pots on a new piece of hardware seems odd to me. Also, one of the subs didn't turn on right away. I had to toggle from off-on-auto-on at which point it made a slight "fizz" noise and turned on (green light is go!).

All of this may be nothing, I'm just reporting my experience so far.
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post #13112 of 13128 Old Today, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
OK, I can forgive you for not messing with REW yet (it can be intimidating at first), but you have no excuse for not at least running Audyssey!

How can you make judgment on what your system is capable of if it's not calibrated??

Reversing the phase on just 2 subs should have had an effect on SPL.

BTW, you did not gain match at the MLP...that is known as level matching.
I'm sorry for the error, I do know the difference between gain and level matching, like I said I'm out of my mind right now and just can't get into anything. I will try at least running Audyssey. It's just right now I've sold all of my main speakers and I'm using some Pioneer monitors until I can get the PSA speakers. I've never liked the results of Audyssey in the past but then again I really haven't given it a chance. Alan, should I use the procedure you outlined for dialing in two subs in your post earlier since my four are stacked? TIA

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post #13113 of 13128 Old Today, 06:29 PM
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here's the beastly xv next to the lil dayton 1200. Sorry for the potato quality picture
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post #13114 of 13128 Old Today, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
first impressions with the XV15se's. meh. I haven't yet ran audyssey or gotten into any calibration/setup with them to reach their full potential. I just wanted to hook them up and see what the difference would be from the dual Dayton 1200's.

I don't really get that visceral feel I was hoping for. The gain on subs is about 2 o'clock; AVR -8.5db; crossovers on front stage 80hz; LPF to LFE 120 (it goes up to 210hz!). I will say that the XV's definitely provide more content, lower, and don't sound bloated or droning. They have a richness to them that the daytons could never match. They are clearly a better speaker than the lil 1200's

Right now i have them in the front of the room, flanking the tv/avr. One in each corner. Given their size, I may end up going wireless with them and moving them back by the couches, as they could be used as endtables lol. That would undoubtedly give viewers a more involved experience.

But yeah, I need to do some setup and view some LFE heavy movies to see what's really going on. I guess I had my hopes up too high, given the price difference between these and the Daytons. Again, these sound much better than the Daytons but they don't seem to hit as hard (yet). At roughly thirteen times the cost of the Daytons...I was hoping for more right out of the box.

Like I said though, I need a proper setup and some more testing. I know there is more out there, but I'm skeptical at just how much.

My back is very messed up right now, so moving these things isn't going to happen until that's better. Hopefully soon.


There are some things that concern me about the subs, however. The pots on the crossover knob (on both subs) are a bit scratchy towards max/min. I didn't adjust while the sub was on, but feeling scratchy pots on a new piece of hardware seems odd to me. Also, one of the subs didn't turn on right away. I had to toggle from off-on-auto-on at which point it made a slight "fizz" noise and turned on (green light is go!).

All of this may be nothing, I'm just reporting my experience so far.

Why are you running your AVR at -8.5?

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post #13115 of 13128 Old Today, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Well, since your subs are stacked (you basically have dual subs, not quads - same as me ) and you've determined that is the best placement (don't need to sub crawl), all subs are up front so you *probably don't need to mess with phase...as long as you've got your sub trims in the correct range, there really is nothing more to do except move on to REW.

One thing maybe - how did you set the gain on your 4 subs? Did you gain match them before stacking? If not, this might help you out a bit. If you level matched them at the MLP, their output is probably slightly different. Not a big deal, but if you want to eeek out as much performance as possible.....


*My situation is probably very rare, but I have to reverse the phase on the 2 top subs in my stacks to get max SPL at the MLP. Those 2 subs must be wired out of phase internally, I haven't opened them up yet to fix it. Might be worth a try to reverse the phase on 1 in each stack and see if your SPL increases....you've got an SPL meter, right?

Alan, if I were to gain match each sub prior to stacking should I turn each XV15SE on it's side and measure the driver output for each sub that way with mic same distance from each of the four drivers in the center of my room placing each sub in the same location as the first as described in the gain matching post which is in your post, the guy who has the three submersives? TIA

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post #13116 of 13128 Old Today, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
first impressions with the XV15se's. meh. I haven't yet ran audyssey or gotten into any calibration/setup with them to reach their full potential. I just wanted to hook them up and see what the difference would be from the dual Dayton 1200's.

I don't really get that visceral feel I was hoping for. The gain on subs is about 2 o'clock; AVR -8.5db; crossovers on front stage 80hz; LPF to LFE 120 (it goes up to 210hz!). I will say that the XV's definitely provide more content, lower, and don't sound bloated or droning. They have a richness to them that the daytons could never match. They are clearly a better speaker than the lil 1200's

Right now i have them in the front of the room, flanking the tv/avr. One in each corner. Given their size, I may end up going wireless with them and moving them back by the couches, as they could be used as endtables lol. That would undoubtedly give viewers a more involved experience.

But yeah, I need to do some setup and view some LFE heavy movies to see what's really going on. I guess I had my hopes up too high, given the price difference between these and the Daytons. Again, these sound much better than the Daytons but they don't seem to hit as hard (yet). At roughly thirteen times the cost of the Daytons...I was hoping for more right out of the box.

Like I said though, I need a proper setup and some more testing. I know there is more out there, but I'm skeptical at just how much.

My back is very messed up right now, so moving these things isn't going to happen until that's better. Hopefully soon.


There are some things that concern me about the subs, however. The pots on the crossover knob (on both subs) are a bit scratchy towards max/min. I didn't adjust while the sub was on, but feeling scratchy pots on a new piece of hardware seems odd to me. Also, one of the subs didn't turn on right away. I had to toggle from off-on-auto-on at which point it made a slight "fizz" noise and turned on (green light is go!).

All of this may be nothing, I'm just reporting my experience so far.
If you are running an AVR with Audyssey, bump up the trim in the AVR 5dbs or so. Most report that Audyssey sets the sub channel on the conservative side.

They may or may not work in the same spots you had your Daytons, but that should be a good starting point.

So bump up the sub trim put a bass heavy movie or 10 in or stream some youtube bass test tracks and crank it up. They should pretty much blast you out of the room, unless your room is really large.

As for the auto on, there can be some variation in how sensitive that is from amp to amp.

The first amp in my PC12 Plus was not very sensitive at all to auto on, so much so I just left it on all the time. Well that amp went bad and the replacement amp works much better even though they are the "same" amp.

Tom monitors this thread but it still wouldn't hurt to call or email with any concerns.

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post #13117 of 13128 Old Today, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Why are you running your AVR at -8.5?
that's simply where audyssey put the level at with the daytons. Like I said, i didn't touch any settings. The daytons tended to get a bit overzealous running at -6 or higher for tv so I just left the settings as they where. I'd kick them to around -2 for movies/games.

Again, these are just my initial impressions and I did say I haven't messed with any settings/calibrations yet. I think these XV's will be a massive improvement when dialed in. Quick report is all, as they say, garbage in, garbage out =P
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post #13118 of 13128 Old Today, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
As for the auto on, there can be some variation in how sensitive that is from amp to amp.

The first amp in my PC12 Plus was not very sensitive at all to auto on, so much so I just left it on all the time. Well that amp went bad and the replacement amp works much better even though they are the "same" amp.

Tom monitors this thread but it still wouldn't hurt to call or email with any concerns.
Yeah, no concerns yet. Like i said, just initial impressions with a quick n dirty, RTR setup.

Regarding the "auto on"...I turned the sub from OFF to ON and it didn't turn on. I then went from ON to AUTO and back to ON (waiting about 5 seconds per stage). It finally turned on after those steps, but it fizzed. Static fizz, not soda fizz...I always leave my subs ON and never in AUTO. Those daytons had some issues knowing when to turn on.

Again, I'll do a proper audyssey and bump the levels up +5ish from where audyssey puts it.
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post #13119 of 13128 Old Today, 07:25 PM
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If you have trouble with auto on, use a splitter to use both the channels L and R on the sub. I have 3 xs30se plugged in this way and all of them turn on automatically when the subs sense a bass signal.

As other users have pointed, calibration makes a huge difference. Try jacking up the sw level on average by about 6-8 dB. Sit back and be ready to jump and reduce the sw level when needed.


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Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
Yeah, no concerns yet. Like i said, just initial impressions with a quick n dirty, RTR setup.

Regarding the "auto on"...I turned the sub from OFF to ON and it didn't turn on. I then went from ON to AUTO and back to ON (waiting about 5 seconds per stage). It finally turned on after those steps, but it fizzed. Static fizz, not soda fizz...I always leave my subs ON and never in AUTO. Those daytons had some issues knowing when to turn on.

Again, I'll do a proper audyssey and bump the levels up +5ish from where audyssey puts it.

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post #13120 of 13128 Old Today, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
Yeah, no concerns yet. Like i said, just initial impressions with a quick n dirty, RTR setup.

Regarding the "auto on"...I turned the sub from OFF to ON and it didn't turn on. I then went from ON to AUTO and back to ON (waiting about 5 seconds per stage). It finally turned on after those steps, but it fizzed. Static fizz, not soda fizz...I always leave my subs ON and never in AUTO. Those daytons had some issues knowing when to turn on.

Again, I'll do a proper audyssey and bump the levels up +5ish from where audyssey puts it.
Any sub will have auto on issues with the avr sub trim set -8.5. That initial setting is fine, but you need to manually bump it up in the -3-0 range. That will put your sub running 5-6db hot which is about right being audyssey tends to set the sub channel low.

Btw I have a dayton sub1200, it is not on the same planet as a XV15se that is properly calibrated and setup.
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post #13121 of 13128 Old Today, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by flydeep View Post
If you have trouble with auto on, use a splitter to use both the channels L and R on the sub. I have 3 xs30se plugged in this way and all of them turn on automatically when the subs sense a bass signal.

As other users have pointed, calibration makes a huge difference. Try jacking up the sw level on average by about 6-8 dB. Sit back and be ready to jump and reduce the sw level when needed.
I do use splitters for R/L. The daytons were on 24/7 simply because they struggled with reliable auto on/off functionality. I wasn't thinking about auto-anything when turning them on...i was just trying to turn them on when the oddity happened.
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post #13122 of 13128 Old Today, 07:50 PM
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Any sub will have auto on issues with the avr sub trim set -8.5. That initial setting is fine, but you need to manually bump it up in the -3-0 range. That will put your sub running 5-6db hot which is about right being audyssey tends to set the sub channel low.

Btw I have a dayton sub1200, it is not on the same planet as a XV15se that is properly calibrated and setup.
I had ran audyssey numerous times with the daytons. I used to run the daytons much hotter than -8.5 and they still weren't reliable on auto. I just left them on after the first month of tinkering. like i said before, they got a little overbearing for tv.

yeah, i did say the xv's are the superior speaker...and i just need to setup/calibrate.

I like the XV's and i'm going to like them more in the future, i'm sure. I don't like scratchy pots or strange noises from amps. I just wanted to give some quick "out of the box" info.
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post #13123 of 13128 Old Today, 08:27 PM
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Alan, should I use the procedure you outlined for dialing in two subs in your post earlier since my four are stacked? TIA
Yes, minus the sub crawl since you've already determined where you're gonna keep the subs.

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Alan, if I were to gain match each sub prior to stacking should I turn each XV15SE on it's side and measure the driver output for each sub that way with mic same distance from each of the four drivers in the center of my room placing each sub in the same location as the first as described in the gain matching post which is in your post, the guy who has the three submersives? TIA
I don't think it would make much difference if they were on their sides or not...but if you want to, it certainly won't hurt.
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post #13124 of 13128 Old Today, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
first impressions with the XV15se's. meh.
Completely unfair assessment, dude. You're still using the Audyssey calibration from your Daytons, for Gods sake! What did you expect?!

I'm sorry, but this is the wrong way to go about a "first impressions" in a manufacturers thread.
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post #13125 of 13128 Old Today, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Completely unfair assessment, dude. You're still using the Audyssey calibration from your Daytons, for Gods sake! What did you expect?!

I'm sorry, but this is the wrong way to go about a "first impressions" in a manufacturers thread.
no need to be sorry. I figure there will be other people, like me, who hook up their newly purchased speakers with very high expectations based on reading literally hundreds of pages, and being less than blown away. It's easy to get caught up in things, like conversations of everyone in the thread who have properly dialed in their subs, and expect the moon out of the box.

I'm not here bashing PSA. I have already said the PSA's are a superior speaker and do things the daytons never could. While everyone on here is clearly more versed than I am regarding audio, this forum is the mecca for information. I want to make sure any newcomers don't get pissed right away because it's not an IMAX theater out of the box.

Perhaps my "meh" was a bit harsh. I do/did realize the actual quality of the sounds coming out of the sub are superior to the daytons. I was hoping for a heart-attack right out of the box though.

I guess let me summarize...I like the XV's. They sound leagues better than the daytons. The initial chest cavity rattle that I expected wasn't there. They clearly need to be dialed in, like anything. However the promise of great things is identifiable. I don't like that one sub did strange things when turning on and both Gain pots were scratchy. That's all.
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post #13126 of 13128 Old Today, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Completely unfair assessment, dude. You're still using the Audyssey calibration from your Daytons, for Gods sake! What did you expect?!

I'm sorry, but this is the wrong way to go about a "first impressions" in a manufacturers thread.
+1

No one should do it this way, and I can't imagine others who have read this thread would. It takes all of 5 minutes to run Audyssey for one position. If nothing else turn Audyssey off completely until you are going to run it.

You absolutely can't make a judgement on these subs when running the receiver with a calibration from different subs. You are seriously neutering the subs with that calibration!!

Please report back after you calibrate or at least turn Audyssey off. I can't imagine you not being blown away coming from the Dayton's.

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post #13127 of 13128 Old Today, 10:26 PM
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excited.... Have a XV15 on the way to compare to my XS15se... will report back.


For the record; I now leave audyssey sub levels alone when DE is engaged, subs +6db hot when it's not. just fyi

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post #13128 of 13128 Old Today, 11:10 PM
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+1

No one should do it this way, and I can't imagine others who have read this thread would. It takes all of 5 minutes to run Audyssey for one position. If nothing else turn Audyssey off completely until you are going to run it.

You absolutely can't make a judgement on these subs when running the receiver with a calibration from different subs. You are seriously neutering the subs with that calibration!!

Please report back after you calibrate or at least turn Audyssey off. I can't imagine you not being blown away coming from the Dayton's.
Am i missing something here? I said the XV's were a better sub, didn't hit as hard as i thought they would out of the box, and i thought i made it clear that it was more a case of me having delusions of grandeur vs reality.

No one should do it this way? I have a hard time believing that an extremely eager person with two giant boxes of subwoofers isn't just going to hook them up right away and hope for the best. It's like someone throwing you the keys to a lambo but leaving the traction control on. Especially after reading tons of pages of people raving about how badass the subs are. The XV's are fantastic. Their response and output quality easily handle the daytons. The daytons do hit hard. So i expected a TON more from the PSA's. I didn't get it out of the box. This is normal. It's called a reality check. I've said in other posts that i get distracted by big numbers and shiny things etc.

I wanted an experience like I had just opened the ark of the covenant lol. I'm not bitching about PSA. I love the subs. What i want is there, i just need to get it.

I'm not trying to fight with people on this and i am not trying to sully the PSA name. A proper setup is something i didn't do. I was excited. jumped the gun for a quick impressions post. Read what you will from it. I feel i've been transparent in my findings.
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