Official Power Sound Audio Thread - Page 446 - AVS Forum
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post #13351 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Farina View Post
The large dip from 65Hz to 100Hz is preventing that hard hitting chest thump.

Are you measuring just the subwoofers or are the mains also on? You either have a large room induced null or the subs are out of phase with the mains. If the mains were running, try rotating the phase control 180deg from where they are now.

Since I have the subs with the crossover set to 100Hz, would that matter?

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post #13352 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
Since I have the subs with the crossover set to 100Hz, would that matter?
Yes. The crossover for your mains is most likely causing phase cancellation of the subs. Try changing the crossover to 80 then re-measure. Then try 120 and re-measure. If the dip changes accordingly, that is your culprit.
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post #13353 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
What is the audyssey sub tweak..
It is a procedure for integrated your sub and mains better. Really smoothed out my graph around the crossover setting.

It used to be an article that you could download from here but since the "upgrade" I can no longer find it. I have it saved as a PDF and will try to attach it here.


Edit, it is too large to attach.


PM me your email address and I will send it to you.
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post #13354 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
It is a procedure for integrated your sub and mains better. Really smoothed out my graph around the crossover setting.

It used to be an article that you could download from here but since the "upgrade" I can no longer find it. I have it saved as a PDF and will try to attach it here.


Edit, it is too large to attach.


PM me your email address and I will send it to you.

Found the link

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/redire...t%25202013.pdf

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
2 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)

Last edited by raynist; Yesterday at 08:20 PM.
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post #13355 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Yes. The crossover for your mains is most likely causing phase cancellation of the subs. Try changing the crossover to 80 then re-measure. Then try 120 and re-measure. If the dip changes accordingly, that is your culprit.
OK, I set my crossovers at 80, 100, 120 and 150. Here they are.

So do I change my sub position or what?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg co at 80.jpg (99.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg co at 150.jpg (96.1 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg co at 120.jpg (105.9 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg co at 100.jpg (104.8 KB, 14 views)

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post #13356 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, I set my crossovers at 80, 100, 120 and 150. Here they are.

So do I change my sub position or what?
What did you change between these graphs and the first you posted? There is no null present on these graphs, but the first graph you posted was a grand canyon size null...had to of sounded terrible!!
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post #13357 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
What did you change between these graphs and the first you posted? There is no null present on these graphs, but the first graph you posted was a grand canyon size null...had to of sounded terrible!!

For some reason I didn't set my receiver back to small for my mains, they were at large. All the ones after had the mains at small.


Sent you a PM with the following.



How do you eliminate it. I have moved the subs closer together on each side of the CC, then right next to each other for 1 giant sub in the front left, and now I just tried front left and rear right. All changes in that order. It all got progressively worse in that range. I have several charts posted in the PSA forum.

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post #13358 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 07:45 PM
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If you are trying to get rid of the dip when the mains are set Large, I would reverse the phase 180 degress on both of your subs and remeasure.


Also we need some normal graphs with the proper axis. 5db incriments on the verticle and 15-200hz on the horizontal.
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post #13359 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
If you are trying to get rid of the dip when the mains are set Large, I would reverse the phase 180 degress on both of your subs and remeasure.


Also we need some normal graphs with the proper axis. 5db incriments on the verticle and 15-200hz on the horizontal.

I am fine with the mains set to small. which selection on REW for the graphs you are talking about? Also, gotta spend time with company right now. I will pick up tomorrow.


Thanks,

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post #13360 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
If you are trying to get rid of the dip when the mains are set Large, I would reverse the phase 180 degress on both of your subs and remeasure.


Also we need some normal graphs with the proper axis. 5db incriments on the verticle and 15-200hz on the horizontal.
Unless the mains and the subs have the same phase shift throughout the freqs, changing the pose on the subs will only shift the null to a different frequency band. The mains will most likely have to be set at 80 - 100 hz without active correction from a DSP that is customized by the listener.
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post #13361 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
If you are trying to get rid of the dip when the mains are set Large, I would reverse the phase 180 degress on both of your subs and remeasure.


Also we need some normal graphs with the proper axis. 5db incriments on the verticle and 15-200hz on the horizontal.
PS I am not worried about total output right now. The way REW has me calibrating I am at -40 on my receiver instead of -20 like normal.

Got you the one last graph
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 200 phase all up spl.jpg (46.3 KB, 12 views)

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post #13362 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Unless the mains and the subs have the same phase shift throughout the freqs, changing the pose on the subs will only shift the null to a different frequency band. The mains will most likely have to be set at 80 - 100 hz without active correction from a DSP that is customized by the listener.
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced then the null should still be present.
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post #13363 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced null the response would of never changed.
One other thing, should I have Audyssey turned off?

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post #13364 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced then the null should still be present.
I think if he did the sub distance tweak it would really help the sub/main integration.

I posted a link to it a few posts ago.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/redire...t%25202013.pdf
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post #13365 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
One other thing, should I have Audyssey turned off?
Yes start with audyssey off, get the response the best you can by trying different placement, phase, and crossover settings, then run audyssey after everything else has been done.

I still am curious to see what the response looks like with the mains set large and the subs phase reversed. Jim Farina mentioned this several posts back...He knows far more about this stuff then I do.
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post #13366 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I think if he did the sub distance tweak it would really help the sub/main integration.

I posted a link to it a few posts ago.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Oct%202013.pdf
Yes i am sure it would...again it takes all of 5seconds to flip the phase on the subs and remeasure. If that does nothing then I say proceed to the sub distance tweak.
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post #13367 of 13367 Old Yesterday, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced then the null should still be present.
I hear ya. I had a heck of a time getting my setup right. The frequency to phase curve was different between the mains and the subs. No matter what I did phase wise, I still had a null. The only thing that changed was the frequency of the null. I ended up having to set my mains at 80Hz. I still have a dip, but I think it may be the room. I have limited placement options. My MLP is in a sweet spot. If I stand up and move two to three feet forward, I hear NO bass at all... LOL

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