Originally Posted by Audiophile2k
To Archaea 1) You can't be serious. Just look at the graphs between the two...there is no way you can say the 12D goes lower. Look carefully at the PL-200 graph. Both subs have a slight peak around 28hz. But between 28hz to 22hz the 200 is down about 4db, the 12D is down about twice that...and continues to drop steeply compared to the smooth 15hz to 22hz low end of the 200. So everything I said is correct. The problem area on the 200 is that from 55hz to 80hz it is about 5db louder than it should be compared to the +/-2 or 3db of its fairly flat low end (between 22hz - 55hz). Capricorn Kid and others have commented that when pushed the 12D will distort and have port noise while the 200 is still playing comfortably. So I stand by my statement the 200 will play a little louder and lower, but the 12d has a flatter overall FR. But really that is splitting hairs. But if your goal is just to refute everything everyone has to say rather than giving people good advice based on the data at hand, go right ahead and tell me how wrong I am and the graphs everyone can now look at are also wrong. The guy who has both speakers is wrong. Everyone is wrong but you. There is just not much separating the two subs except the things I mentioned unless you want to make it about your ego and you just can't admit you were not correct in all your assumptions.
I'm quite serious.
The very fact you state the PL-200 is smoother/flatter between 15-22hz and so it is the sub that is lower sort of sums up the whole realm of your knowledge level with subwoofers. Which is to say you are still quite green.
15-22hz is WELL below the port tune of both subs, and frankly is immaterial. As the sub system's SPL continues to climb the frequencies in that range will not climb in equity. Even if we were talking about sealed subs here, and that little difference was to be genuinely discussed the dB level at which Capricorn Kid measured do not allow for a proper comparison. That little left most tail of the graph can be heavily influenced by the noise floor of Capricorn's house. If the AC kicked on during that measurement, or a truck drove by outside either could easily account for a little dB or two difference in the high 60dB range. If you've ever used live measuring equipment you'll note that that little tail flips around quite a bit until you raise the SPL levels well above the noise floor in the room. But as I mentioned a moment ago this point is immaterial because it is below the port tune of either sub, and isn't something you can boost, or EQ, or even want to have louder because frequencies produced below port tune are loaded with distortion on a ported subwoofer.
The only reason the PL200 might
be louder is that it has a wicked natural peak at 50hz and so becomes louder at one frequency -- quite the opposite of what most enthusiasts are aiming for. We do have some max SPL measurements on both subs from different sources. Sound and Vision states the Klipsch RW-12D hit 115dB at 50hz. Ricci's measurements on data-bass states the 50hz max spl was 110.4dB on the PL200. I don't know how different the SPLs would be if Ricci measured the RW-12D, but I can guess that it wouldn't be a run away spl competition in favor of the PL200. No good eh? Too different measurements so it means nothing. Okay --- I can also once again use data correlation in identifying that both reviewers have measured the Outlaw LFM-1-EX. Let's use that as common data point. The Sound and Vision review said the max output they measured was 109dB at 32hz on the Klipsch RW-12D, while Rici states that the max SPL he reached was 110.7dB at 32hz on the PL200. So I'm going to go ahead and make another educated guess based on correlated data set to say the PL200 is a few dB less powerful than the RW-12D at it's peak. This fact matters more than just the few dB it represents because the pl200 peak clearly stands alone while the Rw-12d peak is more in line with the rest of its frequency response capability. Let's put this in perspective. Compare the PL200 to the Outlaw LFM-1-EX sub on the data-bass site. The RW-12D isn't as good as the outlaw, but its in the same generic class, and the RW-12D didn't finish last place in the $700 mid priced shootout against the likes of well respected brands like SVS, Velodyne, HSU, and Outlaw (all about $700 well respected internet direct subs). That should pretty much close this discussion.
You said we have data on hand to see on which we can base advice. I've done so accurately. You are misinterrpreting the data. Since we are at a point that data has been posted that clearly proves which sub is easily the stronger candidate for the $300 budget buyer and you still dismiss the data, or are misinterpreting it, I'll now drop out of this conversation. There really is not much more I can say. The data is clear, and it's not pointing towards the conclusions you have reached.