SVS PB10 upgrade - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 12-20-2011, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

I recently moved into my new home and want to upgrade from my SVS PB10 subwoofer since it feels like it doesn't really give a great punch in my new 3000 cubic feet room. You should know I use my sub mainly for watching movies and the actual sitting corner is like 1500 cubic feet.

Now the - to me - most obvious upgrade would be to go for the SVS PB13 ultra. BUT I (and my wife) don't want the subwoofer to get any bigger than the PB10.
So this is where many of the popular subs on this forum are removed from my short list, the only one remaining is the JL fathom F112

Knowing this (plus budget +/- $2500) I have 2 questions:
- Can you name any other sub that might meet my criteria?
- How does the F112 compare to the PB10? Is the performance - like it's price in an entire different leage?

Thanks for any of your input!

Greets,
AnjerArts
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post #2 of 22 Old 12-20-2011, 10:25 AM
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That is a huge jump in Sub! I also have a the SVS PB10 and was in a similar boat. I could have sold the SVS and gotten one larger sub but instead I decided to have two subs instead (Hsu VTF 2.4). While they are dissimilar, I have had great results with the two in my system.

With that said, could you maybe sell the SVS and get 2 of the Hsu 15" subs? The ones with the small form factor
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post #3 of 22 Old 12-20-2011, 10:42 AM
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post #4 of 22 Old 12-20-2011, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your responses
It has to be just one sub, do you think the f112 will be a major performance boost? That would be great
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post #5 of 22 Old 12-20-2011, 12:41 PM
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Ilkka measured the PB10 and the JL Audio F113, which I think has 1-2 db more output above 25Hz than the F112.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-2nd-unit.html

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...thom-f113.html

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post #6 of 22 Old 12-20-2011, 12:45 PM
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Are you open to used subs as well? If so, the F113 isn't much more in terms of cost or price. I listened to a 113 as a local audio store about a month or so back - pretty impressive in terms of quality and output considering it's small size. Man, those JL subs sure are sexy.


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post #7 of 22 Old 12-20-2011, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Are you open to used subs as well? If so, the F113 isn't much more in terms of cost or price. I listened to a 113 as a local audio store about a month or so back - pretty impressive in terms of quality and output considering it's small size. Man, those JL subs sure are sexy.

+1. JL subs turn up pretty often on sites like Audiogon. Or you could wait and save up a bit more for a new F113.
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post #8 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Are you open to used subs as well? If so, the F113 isn't much more in terms of cost or price. I listened to a 113 as a local audio store about a month or so back - pretty impressive in terms of quality and output considering it's small size. Man, those JL subs sure are sexy.

Thanks for your thoughts. Problem is; I'm located in the Netherlands. JL subs are more expensive here than in the US. I can get a good deal on a good as new F112 at 2000, retail price here is 3700 which would already be way over budget. So if I stick to JL, the used F112 will be it.

Looking at the Ilkka measurements the F112 will dig considerably deeper then my current PB10. Can anyone confirm this? Thing is: I want to FEEL some actual bass. I was already quite satisfied with the PB10 until I moved it to a larger room, so I don't necessarily want to shake my entire house with it like the PB13 could probably do
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post #9 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjerarts View Post

Thanks for your thoughts. Problem is; I'm located in the Netherlands. JL subs are more expensive here than in the US. I can get a good deal on a good as new F112 at 2000, retail price here is 3700 which would already be way over budget. So if I stick to JL, the used F112 will be it.

Looking at the Ilkka measurements the F112 will dig considerably deeper then my current PB10. Can anyone confirm this? Thing is: I want to FEEL some actual bass. I was already quite satisfied with the PB10 until I moved it to a larger room, so I don't necessarily want to shake my entire house with it like the PB13 could probably do

If you are open to it, it may be worth looking at a pseudo DIY option. Have a cabinet maker make your cabinet, and then select a driver/amp that works for you. You can probably get performance greater than the F112 at less cost. If you go over to the DIY forum people would help you to build something within your requirements.
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post #10 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjerarts View Post

Thanks for your thoughts. Problem is; I'm located in the Netherlands. JL subs are more expensive here than in the US. I can get a good deal on a good as new F112 at €2000, retail price here is €3700 which would already be way over budget. So if I stick to JL, the used F112 will be it.

Looking at the Ilkka measurements the F112 will dig considerably deeper then my current PB10. Can anyone confirm this? Thing is: I want to FEEL some actual bass. I was already quite satisfied with the PB10 until I moved it to a larger room, so I don't necessarily want to shake my entire house with it like the PB13 could probably do

Look at the SVS Euro dealer HERE. You should be able to pickup a new PB12-Plus DSP or the even smaller PB13-Plus DSP for less than the used F112, if I am doing the Kroner to Euro conversion correctly. You could even consider the PB12-NSD DSP at much lower cost.

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post #11 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I've surely looked into those speakers (and the specific dealer), but all SVS subs you mention are larger than my current PB10. And as I described in my first post that's not what I'm looking for
Remaining SVS option would be the SB12-NSD or the SB13-Plus, but I don't think these subs (if not in a pair) will be able to match the F112, right?

About DIY; I've read about the possibilities and know it will give me more bang for the buck. But for now that's not the way I want to go
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post #12 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjerarts View Post

I've surely looked into those speakers (and the specific dealer), but all SVS subs you mention are larger than my current PB10. And as I described in my first post that's not what I'm looking for
Remaining SVS option would be the SB12-NSD or the SB13-Plus, but I don't think these subs (if not in a pair) will be able to match the F112, right?

About DIY; I've read about the possibilities and know it will give me more bang for the buck. But for now that's not the way I want to go

Sorry, I meant the SB13+. I don't believe you will hear a significant difference between the F112 and the SB13, beyond the aesthetics. The Fathoms just look great with their grill off. But they do look like any other black box with the grill on. I can't find any comparative, similar measurement technique, reviews. Since you're not looking for max output, then the FR and SQ would make these two even closer.

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post #13 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 07:56 AM
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PB10 is a weak sub. I was so upset on the performance in a 12x14 room

I sold that chud and got the Outlaw LFM1 Plus and that was a upgrade for the same price (then).

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post #14 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 08:05 AM
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I would go with the SB13+ over the JL, I doubt there is going to be a huge difference in performance between them. Heres a user review that seems very happy with the SB13
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...er-review.html
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post #15 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift View Post

PB10 is a weak sub. I was so upset on the performance in a 12x14 room

I sold that chud and got the Outlaw LFM1 Plus and that was a upgrade for the same price (then).

Except that it's not. Check out the reviews of it performance. For the price, it is hard to find a better performer than that sub.
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post #16 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 08:55 AM
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I think alot of people didn't like the PB10 since it didn't have that midbass punch or slam that so many look for, if you want a movie subwoofer at the $400-450 range the PB10 was probably the best option. "Musical" though probably wasn't its goal.
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post #17 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericthemidget View Post

Except that it's not. Check out the reviews of it performance. For the price, it is hard to find a better performer than that sub.

who care what reviews said; I said it was weak! Why? Because I heard it, good enough? To me it is!!

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post #18 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift View Post

PB10 is a weak sub. I was so upset on the performance in a 12x14 room

I sold that chud and got the Outlaw LFM1 Plus and that was a upgrade for the same price (then).

You must be the only person who heard/owned a pb10 and didn't like it. I don't think you could find a better 10" sub past or present, ID or BM for that money. I'm glad you gravitated to another larger sub but saying the pb10 wasn't enough for your 12x14 room is a stretch...IMO. It was awesome in my 21x15 living room before I upgraded to a larger sub as well.

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post #19 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjerarts View Post

I've surely looked into those speakers (and the specific dealer), but all SVS subs you mention are larger than my current PB10. And as I described in my first post that's not what I'm looking for
Remaining SVS option would be the SB12-NSD or the SB13-Plus, but I don't think these subs (if not in a pair) will be able to match the F112, right?

About DIY; I've read about the possibilities and know it will give me more bang for the buck. But for now that's not the way I want to go

If you really want to 'feel' the bass to a significant extent over your pb10, you will likely have to sacrifice a little room for a larger sub. Do you have other placement options to tuck it out of the way? The f112 is a great sub but going with a larger Svs or similar product will provide extraordinary value.


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post #20 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift View Post

PB10 is a weak sub. I was so upset on the performance in a 12x14 room

I sold that chud and got the Outlaw LFM1 Plus and that was a upgrade for the same price (then).

What was lacking in the PB10?
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post #21 of 22 Old 12-21-2011, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

You must be the only person who heard/owned a pb10 and didn't like it. I don't think you could find a better 10" sub past or present, ID or BM for that money. I'm glad you gravitated to another larger sub but saying the pb10 wasn't enough for your 12x14 room is a stretch...IMO. It was awesome in my 21x15 living room before I upgraded to a larger sub as well.

10" vs 10" sub maybe it could be the better component, but $$$'s vs $$$'s

PB10 vs LFM1 Plus (same price). That Outlaw smack that ***!!
PB10 is and 'was' over priced! Then again maybe mine was a POS. I sold it, and the person whom owned it kept it for a while and I know he sold it and moved onto HSU and was happier. Just say'in.

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post #22 of 22 Old 12-22-2011, 02:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your thoughts again!

I think it's best to just test the F112 in my own room and hear for myself if it digs deep enough. Sure, I understand when tests show 110db for the PB13 and 85db for the F112 @ 20hz (for example, just putting in some numbers here) is a major difference. But maybe 85db is already good enough for me and gives me the experience I'm looking for.

When the F112 test really disappoints me I can always change my criteria for subwoofer size en stretch things a bit. Does that sound like a plan?
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