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post #31 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 02:47 PM
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It would seem that for the sake of the OP, Cone material does not matter as he is comparing two different subwoofers. Wouldn't that then mean that all things considered are not equal? To keep things simple, both HSU and Rythmik designed each sub to perform best using the materials they chose to use.
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post #32 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

It would seem that for the sake of the OP, Cone material does not matter as he is comparing two different subwoofers. Wouldn't that then mean that all things considered are not equal? To keep things simple, both HSU and Rythmik designed each sub to perform best using the materials they chose to use.

Correct. In the whole scheme of things, cone material has no effect on performance. The alignment and how the chosen driver are used makes all the difference.


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post #33 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Fair enough. What have I said that is confusing?

To me? Nothing. The same goes for what monomer is stating.

While I believe that cone material should have little to do with a buying decision, to say it means nothing is too simplistic.

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post #34 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

It would seem that for the sake of the OP, Cone material does not matter as he is comparing two different subwoofers. Wouldn't that then mean that all things considered are not equal? To keep things simple, both HSU and Rythmik designed each sub to perform best using the materials they chose to use.

Agreed.

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post #35 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

to say it means nothing is too simplistic.

Well that's what I have been very clear about if you go back and re-read my posts. I say that cone material, for a subwoofer, as NO effect on sound quality. Sound quality being the key word here. I also mention in one post that when it comes to the quality of a cone, it's the stiffness and strength that is of utmost importance. Monomer was skewing the subject to make some point about cone material and it's relation to mass which is not the subject (and an entirely different thing, alltogether) of this thread.


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post #36 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Well that's what I have been very clear about if you go back and re-read my posts. I say that cone material, for a subwoofer, as NO effect on sound quality. Sound quality being the key word here. I also mention in one post that when it comes to the quality of a cone, it's the stiffness and strength that is of utmost importance. Monomer was skewing the subject to make some point about cone material and it's relation to mass which is not the subject (and an entirely different thing, alltogether) of this thread.

The term "sound quality" is very broad and means different things to different people.

Stiffness and strength, is, at least in part, a function of the material used.

I don't think monomer was trying to skew anything. He was addressing the thread in a different context (as he has pointed out).

Which brings up the question, does cone material affect mass, strength, and stiffness?

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post #37 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Which brings up the question, does cone material affect mass, strength, and stiffness?

Of course is does. Though if you want to get into the nitty-gritty of a driver's electro-mechanical properties... might want to start a new thread about it. Probably in the DIY section.


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post #38 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Of course is does. Though if you want to get into the nitty-gritty of a driver's electro-mechanical properties... might want to start a new thread about it. Probably in the DIY section.

Oh...I know it does. I don't need a thread about it.

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post #39 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 03:48 PM
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post #40 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 03:52 PM
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Lol. No worries, Savior.

This stuff is surely educating somebody.


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post #41 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 04:47 PM
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Also, paper tends to be less durable for the long haul, and is a primary reason I would not choose a sub with a paper cone.


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post #42 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 04:57 PM
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Paper cones in subs are usually treated. At least, these days they usually are. Hsu paper cones are quite rigid.
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post #43 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 05:48 PM
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No problem here!


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post #44 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 06:13 PM
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I seem to recall one pro-driver manufacturer promoting the aluminum cone as a way to wick heat away from the VC in their low frequency driver, and heated coils do affect sound.

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HV/S subwoofers employ cutting edge heat transfer technology. Our woofer motors use oversized voice coils with extra heavy wire
and an aluminum former. The assembly is then fused to an aluminum cone. This acts as an enormous heat sink, providing cool
operation at the highest sound pressure levels
, for unrestricted power when needed.

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post #45 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

The motor, surround, spider, and the inductance related to the mass (depending how high to crossover), and thermal properties matter more than cone material.

However, after pushing on tons of drivers, paper always seems to have some give. This probably matters more at higher frequencies. Too bad I can't find some high definition videos recorded around 1000 fps.

maybe not 1000fps ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl439GAJFxU


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post #46 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 07:35 PM
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I heard that cones made of nanotubes and bucky balls are the best and make the rest of the materials sound like crap!

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #47 of 53 Old 01-05-2012, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

I heard that cones made of nanotubes and bucky balls are the best and make the rest of the materials sound like crap!

Bucky balls are too heavy.
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post #48 of 53 Old 01-06-2012, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

Also, paper tends to be less durable for the long haul, and is a primary reason I would not choose a sub with a paper cone.

I wouldn't worry too much about the longevity of a paper cone.
I have 2 JBL 15" D130s all original (not subs/Grateful Dead Wall of Sound) that are 40yrs old with no signs of deterioration, the cloth surround is the only thing treated.
These have been played hard and regularly since the early 70's.
Surrounds will fail long before cone on most speakers.
Also have either been in a basement or the lower level of a tri-level the whole time.
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post #49 of 53 Old 01-06-2012, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jackbuzz View Post

I wouldn't worry too much about the longevity of a paper cone.
I have 2 JBL 15" D130s all original (not subs/Grateful Dead Wall of Sound) that are 40yrs old with no signs of deterioration, the cloth surround is the only thing treated.
These have been played hard and regularly since the early 70's.
Surrounds will fail long before cone on most speakers.
Also have either been in a basement or the lower level of a tri-level the whole time.



Here's a nice example of what can happen to a paper woofer:



I'd say it's unusual to see one last as long as yours has. But I'm glad it did.

However, I do realize that newer paper cones are reinforced and improved, so they are more durable. I've seen some rather hi-end speakers using paper cones.

I do remember seeing more than a handfull of blown/damaged/torn paper speakers growing up, although those were mainly in car sound systems. But I had a friend who accidentally hit his old speaker woof (15" in the 70's style large kabuki style floor standing box-Sansui) moving a table and it tore the cone up. Yes paper woofs can also be reconed/foamed too.

But I'm sure the argument can be made either way.


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post #50 of 53 Old 01-06-2012, 06:42 AM
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Obviously not from normal wear and tear.
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post #51 of 53 Old 01-06-2012, 07:03 AM
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What it should look like.
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post #52 of 53 Old 01-06-2012, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

Here's a nice example of what can happen to a paper woofer:



I'd say it's unusual to see one last as long as yours has. But I'm glad it did.

However, I do realize that newer paper cones are reinforced and improved, so they are more durable. I've seen some rather hi-end speakers using paper cones.

I do remember seeing more than a handfull of blown/damaged/torn paper speakers growing up, although those were mainly in car sound systems. But I had a friend who accidentally hit his old speaker woof (15" in the 70's style large kabuki style floor standing box-Sansui) moving a table and it tore the cone up. Yes paper woofs can also be reconed/foamed too.

But I'm sure the argument can be made either way.

seriously man, you think people treat their gear that way? That driver has been abused.
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post #53 of 53 Old 01-06-2012, 03:27 PM
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Most Pro drivers are using some sort of paper cone and they are used in all kinds of climates.
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