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post #1 of 22 Old 01-06-2012, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm sure these get old, but I'll be honest, I'm new to subs and I had no idea that is was this complicated. My situation:

13 X 22 X 10 foot room
70% Music / 30% HT
Monitor 70 / CS2 Mains
Budget Under $500
Listening: I guess I'm looking for tightness and punch more than anything else. I like music more, but I don't want to miss out on too much in the low end for HT...obviously there will be some compromise.

Potential options:
HSU VTF-1
HSU STF-2
Energy VSW-10
Cadence CSX12 Mark II

I've got a crappy old Onkyo sub from a previous setup now...so anything will be an improvement...the bar is real low. I've been amazed at the clarity and detail in the uncompressed Bluray soundtracks and would like to extend that to bass.

At this point, I'm sure all these choices would be great. I've read that the Energy might be a good deal right now given that it's on sale for $349 shipped. My other question is about the STF-2 vs. the VTF-1, it's on sale through the weekend at only a $60 difference...would the max output switch really get me that much more when I watched movies vs. music?

I never though choosing a subwoofer would make me think this hard...thanks ahead of time.
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post #2 of 22 Old 01-06-2012, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgehogfrenzy View Post

Potential options:
HSU VTF-1
HSU STF-2
Energy VSW-10
Cadence CSX12 Mark II

Based upon the fact that you listen to about 70% music I would probably consider them in the following order...

Energy VSW-10
HSU VTF-1
HSU STF-2
Cadence CSX12 Mark II

That room is a pretty good size though. Depending upon where you're seated you might find they struggle with the amount of output they can provide.

Although slightly outside your budget the Rythmik FV12 is probably worth considering as well.

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post #3 of 22 Old 01-07-2012, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I had someone else message me about the Rythmic when I posted this, I hadn't read about it...their direct servo technology is very interesting. The specs on the speaker are pretty impressive...

At the suggestion of another that feels like the Rythmic would seriously limit the amount of compromise for a mere $100 more, I'm seriously considering it. The one thing I notice about my monitor70s is that they don't hit hard, especially on the kick. Very clean, very detailed in the mid and highs, but nothing low. I'm sure part of that is that they're only getting 105 watts, but it looks like the Rythmic would fill things out nicely.

Although now my sub is going to be more expensive then my fronts were....oy. You guys are dragging me down.
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post #4 of 22 Old 01-07-2012, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgehogfrenzy View Post

Although now my sub is going to be more expensive then my fronts were

It often should be. A sub is a speaker AND and an amplifier

The Rythmik FV12 will be superior to those other subs in sound quality for music, total volume output, and low frequency extension. It should produce better bass than the Monitor 70s in the 60hz and below range. It's a jump in class over those other subs. IMHO, it's would be a better value.

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post #5 of 22 Old 01-08-2012, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the help. I'm actually glad that I now started this thread, because I would have overlooked the Rythmik. I'm just going to spend the extra dough and get the Rythmik...I've read a lot of good things about it blending very well in an overall system. Plus, being a bass player, does anything but bass matter?

One last question...I might be able to pick up a Emotiva Ultra Sub12 from a buddy for a couple of hundred less. I know it doesn't go quite as low, since it's sealed, and wouldn't be quite as loud. Do you think the Rythmik will out perform it a lot?
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-08-2012, 12:16 PM
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Not in the same league of the Rythmik, and your buddy is not doing you a favor, imo.
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post #7 of 22 Old 01-10-2012, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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All right, I'm in. Bought the Rythmik yesterday...looks like it might be here by Friday!

I'll let you know how it goes. When I originally planned my purchase, I didn't think that the Sub was going to make that big a difference....but I'm pretty sure right now that this is going to shore up a lot of the issues that I'm having.

Thanks for all the suggestions...I would have overlooked this sub if it weren't for you guys.

- DT
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post #8 of 22 Old 01-10-2012, 09:11 AM
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For music you definitely made the right choice getting the rhythmik...... I was recently in your boat but i'm more HT and not so much music. I also had a crappy Onkyo sub (well actually 2 identical ones) from my old HTiB setups. I went with Dual Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Pluses....... The difference is WOW!!! Were those Onkyos even subs at all. One of my outlaws could destroy both my Onkyos combined..... I'm not tryin to get you to think that you should've went with outlaw because rhythmik was definitely your best bet for your situation. I just wanted to tell you the differnce good subs make is unexplainable!!!!

Shawn
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post #9 of 22 Old 01-10-2012, 10:31 AM
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Congratulations! Make sure you come back and post something here, to let everyone know what you think of it.

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post #10 of 22 Old 01-12-2012, 11:01 AM
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Subscribed -- am looking at the same sub (duals actually) and would love to hear your thoughts after you get it.

I've never experience FULL audio until now. I never knew what I was missing. WOW what a difference.
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post #11 of 22 Old 01-12-2012, 02:23 PM
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I'm going to check this out too...keep us posted. I'm debating between the FV-12 and the F12, or whatever else
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post #12 of 22 Old 01-13-2012, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll let you know...I know it's sitting on my front porch right now...and I can't get out of work fast enough...

I should have some preliminary results tomorrow...I've got high expectations....
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post #13 of 22 Old 01-13-2012, 02:39 PM
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I´m in the same boat except that my situation would be more like 80%HT / 20%MUSIC.

Would you guys still recommend the Rythmik FV12 for mostly HT use?
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-13-2012, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felang View Post

I´m in the same boat except that my situation would be more like 80%HT / 20%MUSIC.

Would you guys still recommend the Rythmik FV12 for mostly HT use?

Yes, I would. Depends upon the size of your room though. How much space are you trying to fill?

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post #15 of 22 Old 01-14-2012, 02:58 PM
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I was also interested in the Rythmik FV12 as i think i would more than enough for my room 11x11. It would mostly be HT and gaming with the occasional music. Would this or the Outlaw lfm- 1 plus( which i have also been seriously considering as well) be a better option?
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post #16 of 22 Old 01-14-2012, 03:42 PM
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This might sound crazy but I just bought a BIC F-12 for my dad and it sounds pretty awesome. At $189 each you can get 2 of them and still have $100 left over
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post #17 of 22 Old 01-14-2012, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffster15 View Post

I was also interested in the Rythmik FV12 as i think i would more than enough for my room 11x11. It would mostly be HT and gaming with the occasional music. Would this or the Outlaw lfm- 1 plus( which i have also been seriously considering as well) be a better option?

Yup, that's correct; in an 11x11 room it would be more then enough.

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post #18 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Yup, that's correct; in an 11x11 room it would be more then enough.

So it would have the edge over the outlaw?
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post #19 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Real quick first thoughts, as I've not had much time with it, nor much time to integrate it well. I really haven't spent any time dialing in phase or looking at the frequency response on my RTA.

Remember I've got Polk Monitor 70 fronts, and a Yamaha Adventage receiver.

Music: This sub has changed my opinion about subs and music. It is very, very tight. I've listened to high end Velodyne (I know, old school), and others and could never figure out why you wouldn't just listen stereo... seriously. I've also listened to an Emotiva Ultrasub 12 and liked it, but only at lower volumes. This thing hits hard, and fills out what the 70s were missing. I am a bass player and like a little more in my EQ than is probably normal. This sub gives it to me without it sounding directional....usually I'm looking in the corner of the room and pointing....there's the sub. Right now, with the little tweaking I've done, it blends perfectly. Listening to modern jazz like Chris Potter, Bela Fleck...tight, focused bass, especially in the kick and toms. Nothing resonates. Gospel music that is heavily bass and drums fills out nicely, even at low listening volumes. Rock, like U2, Foo Fighters, Pink Floyd has a nice deep bass sound without over powering...it sounds lame to say "clean", but it's a really good descriptor. I still really need to work on the EQ on the mains to match this new beast, but I'm really happy thus far.

HT: Watched one movie and a couple of clips from others, and there's a huge difference...LFE effect I can physically feel...but they aren't overpowering or fatiguing. ex. when I hooked it up, I never thought my wife would like this thing...anytime loud bass come on in a movie, she says turn it down, it bothers my ears. She wanted to watch her Lion King Blu-Ray, and in the first scene that has LFE effects (Elephant Graveyard), this thing rumbles the house, and my wife looks at me and says "woah, that was cool." She actually likes it...it was worth the price for that.

Like I said, I've really got to tweak phase, dampening and extension setting to dial in...but initially this thing is great.

Also, it's huge and heavy, which I also like....very man-ish. More to come.
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post #20 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffster15 View Post

So it would have the edge over the outlaw?

For the answer to your question look no further then the post that was directly below yours...

Realistically, your room is so small that either would be more then sufficient. I tend towards clarity and definition myself, and it seems as though the FV12 might have a step up on the Outlaw in that regard. The Outlaw may very well dig a little deeper though so it's relative, and depends upon what you consider the most important aspect. For me it would be the FV12, but you might feel differently.

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post #21 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

For the answer to your question look no further then the post that was directly below yours...

Realistically, your room is so small that either would be more then sufficient. I tend towards clarity and definition myself, and it seems as though the FV12 might have a step up on the Outlaw in that regard. The Outlaw may very well dig a little deeper though so it's relative, and depends upon what you consider the most important aspect. For me it would be the FV12, but you might feel differently.

I agree.

I'm an Outlaw LFM-1 EX owner (so I'm a fan of the Plus), and everything I've read suggests that the FV12 should be a little better choice for the music listener over the Plus; the Plus might have a little more volume or might extend a little lower. Given the difference in price and your music priority, I would go with the Rythmik unless you like the aesthetics or the downfiring design of the Plus better.

However, the tough call is the Epik Legend vs the FV12. Both are the same price before shipping. The Legend has an excellent reputation as a very musical sub. They will be different because the Legend is a dual sealed sub. Hard to know which would be better, and one might actually perform better in one room situation over the other (because of room acoustics and placement) or depending on the type of music you listen to. Those two seem a coin toss to me in terms of musicality.

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post #22 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 01:03 PM
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Ok thanks for your help guys, tough decisions haha. Looks like there is compromises in each sub, just have to find the right fit.
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