Dayton Audio SUB-1200 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by charmerci View Post

Sure, I'd like to have expensive dual matching subs but not everyone has the opportunity for that.

But this wasn't about you, right? kindofabigdeal was the one who asked the question. And he has the choice between buying a matching BIC PL-200 or two Daytons.

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post #92 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


For someone that doesn't have experience with dual matching subs sound--and is also going to upgrade that second "mismatched" sub--you sure push your limited experience pretty hard.

It's one thing to try to integrate another sub one already has. But that doesn't make it a good purchase choice to buy something different if one doesn't have to. There are some advantages to dual matching subs that are generally pretty well known and accepted.

You make some valid points cel.  However, it seems like, from what I can tell, the two subs the op is considering adding will be somewhat similar in performance and capability, so my opinion is that all three would probably be better than running any of the two.  I don't disagree that matching subs is ideal, but given how well my two vastly mismatched subs are working for the time being, I suggest giving it a go:

 

One good sub:

 

Good sealed sub with low end ported sub:

 

After eq:

 

I have no doubt that a more comparable sub would be a big improvement, with less eq required and more headroom.  A lot of things fell into place just right in my situation.


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post #93 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

You make some valid points cel.  However, it seems like, from what I can tell, the two subs the op is considering adding will be somewhat similar in performance and capability, so my opinion is that all three would probably be better than running any of the two.  I don't disagree that matching subs is ideal, but given how well my two vastly mismatched subs are working for the time being, I suggest giving it a go

How do we know that those subs are similar in overall performance? Are there CEA 2010 measurements of the Dayton? I'd be glad to see them.

And one PL-200 could certainly help the frequency response of the other one.

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post #94 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


How do we know that those subs are similar in overall performance? Are there CEA 2010 measurements of the Dayton? I'd be glad to see them.

And one PL-200 could certainly help the frequency response of the other one.

I am making what I believe to be the safe assumption that they are much more closely matched than my two subs :)


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post #95 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

I am making what I believe to be the safe assumption that they are much more closely matched than my two subs smile.gif

Your situation is fairly meaningless for this context. The first question to be answered is whether or not dual SUB1200s would outperform a BIC PL-200 in SPL and overall SQ. I don't know the answer to that, and I'm not sure anyone else does here either. And then it depends on placement options. It could be that there is not a place for the 3rd sub that wouldn't make things worse. It's not nearly as simple as you are making this out to be. There are so many factors that should be involved in this decision, and you are stuck in the mindset of your own experience.

I got struck by lightning and it didn't kill me. Does that mean you shouldn't worry that getting struck by lightning wouldn't kill you? LOL

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post #96 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 09:40 PM
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Cel I don't know why you have such a huge issue with his thought of adding dual daytons to his existing PL200, or with people suggesting it may work ok.  It would seem that the daytons perform at least as well or better for movies and are priced great.  Data Bass states the PL200 barely extends to 30 Hz, the Dayton clearly extends to 20 pretty well in the graph posted in this thread.  OP said he wants more impact for movies and wants to place them near field behind his couch.  He obviously therefore can place all three subs, as he himself stated.  I have never heard of 3 subs being worse than two, but I suppose anything is possible.  After all, using your logic, just because there might be someone somewhere who once had three subs that were worse than two, does not mean it will be the case for everyone :rolleyes:


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post #97 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Cel I don't know why you have such a huge issue with his thought of adding dual daytons to his existing PL200, or with people suggesting it may work ok.

You didn't just suggest it might work OK. You bad mouthed the idea that dual matching subs might be the better choice based on your limited individual experience.
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

 It would seem that the daytons perform at least as well or better for movies and are priced great.  Data Bass states the PL200 barely extends to 30 Hz, the Dayton clearly extends to 20 pretty well in the graph posted in this thread.  

You should know this by now. You can't compare data-base.com measurements with in-room response. Look at Ed Mullen's (of SVS) review of the Polk PSW505 where he provides ground plane measurements and then notice how much things changed in the particular room he used them in.
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I have never heard of 3 subs being worse than two, but I suppose anything is possible. 

That's because you are new at this. Multiple subs does not guarantee one better frequency response. It depends on placement in the room.

Now if he's going to colocate those subs behind the sectional, then there's no benefit to having duals if the single sub has more SPL and better SQ.

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post #98 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


You didn't just suggest it might work OK. You bad mouthed the idea that dual matching subs might be the better choice based on your limited individual experience.

No I didn't .  I simply stated that his suggestion of adding dual daytons to his existing PL200 may work ok.  You saying I bad mouthed it doesnt mean I did, especially when I didnt.  Wow, argumentitive much?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
 You can't compare data-base.com measurements with in-room response. 

Quote from Data Bass regarding the PL200:

 

" In room this unit should extend to 30Hz with useful output. "

 

I didn't, I was comparing in room to in room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

 Multiple subs does not guarantee one better frequency response. It depends on placement in the room.
 

More than likely it does.  Seatbelts kill people but most of the time they save lives.  Nothing is ever 100% gauranteed.  Still not sure why you are being so argumentative about commonly known and accepted benefits of multiple subs.

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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

That's because you are new at this. 

Doesn't mean I am unable to learn things quickly.  I conceded that matching subs are most likely, most often ideal.  But if he wants to add two slightly better subs for movies, there is a good chance he should be able to make it work well.  He doesn't  have to keep the BIC if things are worse with it being used along with the other two.

 

If you feel more comfortable advising the OP to add another sub that extends to 30 Hz in room to improve his low frequency movie experience, that is certainly your right to do so.

 

I felt like adding two subs with 20 Hz in room extension would likely improve his low frequency movie experience.  It is up to him whose advice he takes, if at all. 

 

We are all here just trying to help people out.  :)


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post #99 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

No I didn't .  I simply stated that his suggestion of adding dual daytons to his existing PL200 may work ok.  You saying I bad mouthed it doesnt mean I did, especially when I didnt.

I don't know what to say since this is what you wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Although some will swear running mismatched subs will cause the universe to implode, I had pretty good luck integrating two much more vastly mismatched subs than what you are suggesting.

That's hardly a balanced perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Quote from Data Bass regarding the PL200:

" In room this unit should extend to 30Hz with useful output. "

I didn't, I was comparing in room to in room.

Every room is different. You can't extrapolate from someone's in-room graph to a general use case.
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Seatbelts kill people but most of the time they save lives. Nothing is ever 100% gauranteed. Still not sure why you are being so argumentative about commonly known and accepted benefits of multiple subs.

Well, then you need to go read the discussions about multiple subs. It has been repeatedly discussed that even dual subs, if placed improperly, can just as easily reinforce a null or a peak. It's not like seat belts.
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

If you feel more comfortable advising the OP to add another sub that extends to 30 Hz in room to improve his low frequency movie experience, that is certainly your right to do so.

All I did was counter the rather poorly supported advice. My perspective is that there's more to this decision than you have led him to believe.

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post #100 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 11:15 PM
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OK guys. Let's chill from here.

'nough said.

You two will not resolve this by continuing.
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post #101 of 118 Old 03-17-2014, 11:35 PM
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I agree, sorry was hard not to respond to false statements about things I did or did not say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindofabigdeal View Post
 

I have one pl-200 right now in my room and you can feel the bass in scenes but not as much as I would like. I have it hooked up to a Yamaha 773 and I have the sub setup at 1/2 gain 150 on the back of the sub. I used YPAO to automatically adjust the crossover and trim db for the sub, I wasn't too impressed with the settings that it came up with so I changed it the crossover to 80 and the subwoofer trim back to 0db. I currently have the sub sitting about half way down my wall (so about the middle of the room) about 12-18 inches away from the wall, to me it seems like the sweet spot. I would like to feel more bass in movies though, I have a sectional and that is about 9-10 ft away from my screen and about 2 ft away from the back wall. My question is how well would a pair of these subs play with my pl-200 as I would like to put them behind the sectional to feel some more goodness in movies. 

Without arguing against adding a matching PL200, which no one suggested, and against which I did not argue, I feel that adding dual Daytons, which, from the information available appear to have a very good chance of offering lower extension than your PL200, would probably work well for you.  Reading your post, it seems like you have room for three subs, one in what you indicate was a sweet spot.  Adding two more subs near field behind your couch, is commonly known to yield great results for increasing the feel you get from low frequency movie effects.  Therefore, I believe this could be a good option for you.

 

Be aware however, that nothing is a 100% gaurantee.  Optimal placement can have a big impact on how multiple subs interact with one another.  Multiple subs will provide you with the ability to experiment with placement to get the smoothest frequency response.  A single sub, no matter how good, cannot benefit from the smoothing effect of dual subs.  Therefore, you are more likely to see improved results from multiple subs by having them, rather than not having them.  Hopefully these disclaimers are adequate warnings of some of the pitfalls associated with this advice.  Whatever you decide, good luck, and enjoy!:)


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post #102 of 118 Old 03-18-2014, 01:22 AM
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Wow, so much information to digest my head feels like its going to explode. First of all I would like to thank you all for your responses. Basically with my available funds I have to option of adding another PL200 or going with 2 12" daytons along with my PL200. I was interested in seeing how well they might mesh together if they are properly setup and whether or not one or two might overwhelm the other. 

 

I mainly watch movies, but I do listen to the occasional CD, IMO the PL200 isn't great with music but it does movies pretty well. My room is 18x12x10 the ceilings vault to the 10 and I have door/entry way that opens to a hall way. I haven't had a problem playing music or movies loud enough as stated before I would just like to feel things more. It's clear to me no matter what I do, I need to measure everything to make sure its setup properly and not just placed at random. I definitely appreciate the insight by everyone here and now have a decision to make. 

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post #103 of 118 Old 03-18-2014, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kindofabigdeal View Post

 It's clear to me no matter what I do, I need to measure everything to make sure its setup properly and not just placed at random. I definitely appreciate the insight by everyone here and now have a decision to make. 

Best place to start would be to measure now and see what kind of response you are getting. Could be that neither the Daytons nor the PL-200 are the right solution.

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post #104 of 118 Old 03-18-2014, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabulousfrankie View Post

If you're curious, here's a measurement of a single Dayton SUB-1200 I setup for my brother.


How did you get the sub to play up to 200hz? I thought it would just cut off its frequency response at 140hz as spec'd?
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post #105 of 118 Old 03-18-2014, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kindofabigdeal View Post

Wow, so much information to digest my head feels like its going to explode. First of all I would like to thank you all for your responses. Basically with my available funds I have to option of adding another PL200 or going with 2 12" daytons along with my PL200. I was interested in seeing how well they might mesh together if they are properly setup and whether or not one or two might overwhelm the other. 

I mainly watch movies, but I do listen to the occasional CD, IMO the PL200 isn't great with music but it does movies pretty well. My room is 18x12x10 the ceilings vault to the 10 and I have door/entry way that opens to a hall way. I haven't had a problem playing music or movies loud enough as stated before I would just like to feel things more. It's clear to me no matter what I do, I need to measure everything to make sure its setup properly and not just placed at random. I definitely appreciate the insight by everyone here and now have a decision to make. 

do a sub crawl first?
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post #106 of 118 Old 03-18-2014, 02:03 PM
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The measurement was taken with the sub x-over at 100Hz I think (it's been a while since I did the measurement) and Energy Take 5 sats playing the rest of the range.


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post #107 of 118 Old 03-18-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by trueno92 View Post

That in room response looks fantastic and quite a bit different than Jim jman's original review.. Hmmm

My results won't reflect room gain or any equalization, so there's no way to make a direct comparison I'm afraid. In my room I never got usable output that low, but it doesn't necessarily mean others won't.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
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post #108 of 118 Old 03-19-2014, 06:21 AM
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My results won't reflect room gain or any equalization, so there's no way to make a direct comparison I'm afraid. In my room I never got usable output that low, but it doesn't necessarily mean others won't.

well that's that.

Not satisfied with current sub output? Doesn't dig deep enough?

Solution?

BUILD A BETTER ROOM!

much appreciate the geeking out on a $100 sub, gents. I can't wait until I can pick mine up.
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post #109 of 118 Old 03-22-2014, 04:22 PM
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I recently got this sub and am quite happy with it. However, as has been mentioned the auto on does not work very well.

I wanted to know what any of you have done to deal with it? If I leave the Sub set to ON at all times, will that do any harm, like shorten the life of the sub? That seems the easiest solution. Or to just switch it on and off for each use.

Anyone doing anything different?
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post #110 of 118 Old 03-22-2014, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post

I recently got this sub and am quite happy with it. However, as has been mentioned the auto on does not work very well.

I wanted to know what any of you have done to deal with it? If I leave the Sub set to ON at all times, will that do any harm, like shorten the life of the sub? That seems the easiest solution. Or to just switch it on and off for each use.

Anyone doing anything different?

I leave mine on all the time. I don't know for sure if it'll shorten its life, but for the price, I'm not really concerned. Auto-on definitely isn't an option, at least for me. Never quite worked.
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post #111 of 118 Old 03-22-2014, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cesar123 View Post

I leave mine on all the time. I don't know for sure if it'll shorten its life, but for the price, I'm not really concerned. Auto-on definitely isn't an option, at least for me. Never quite worked.

Yeah, that auto-on is bad.

I unplug it when I know I won't use it. (Work/sleep.) You'd be surprised how much you spend each year on electricity with multiple stand-by electronics on all the time. Can run into hundreds of dollars/year.
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post #112 of 118 Old 03-23-2014, 05:41 AM
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Yeah, auto-on doesn't work at all for me. It'll auto-off, but won't come back on. I've been turning it off, and unplugging mine. I have it placed next to an electrical socket so it's easy enough to do.
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post #113 of 118 Old 03-23-2014, 11:16 AM
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How come you turn it off AND Unplug it?
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post #114 of 118 Old 04-06-2014, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post

I recently got this sub and am quite happy with it. However, as has been mentioned the auto on does not work very well.

I wanted to know what any of you have done to deal with it? If I leave the Sub set to ON at all times, will that do any harm, like shorten the life of the sub? That seems the easiest solution. Or to just switch it on and off for each use.

Anyone doing anything different?


I turned the sub volume up to -3 in the AVR, sometimes higher depending on source. Have not had a problem with the auto on when there is some bass to be heard. Pretty sure I'm going to add another one thanks to this site lol. Really enjoying this new hobby.

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post #115 of 118 Old 05-09-2014, 12:11 PM
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Has anyone modified this sub with good results? More bracing, polyfill etc?


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post #116 of 118 Old 05-10-2014, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SXRDISBEST View Post

Has anyone modified this sub with good results? More bracing, polyfill etc?

Poly in a bass reflex subwoofer? Are you trying to make it aperiodic or something?

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
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post #117 of 118 Old 07-14-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by fabulousfrankie View Post
If you're curious, here's a measurement of a single Dayton SUB-1200 I setup for my brother.

This is borderline unbelievable!

This has me thinking about adding a pair of these to smooth the response of my 4 XS15s....crazy talk?? Would save me a boatload of money over 2 more xs15s.....
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post #118 of 118 Old 07-14-2014, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
This is borderline unbelievable!

This has me thinking about adding a pair of these to smooth the response of my 4 XS15s....crazy talk?? Would save me a boatload of money over 2 more xs15s.....
I'm using two of these along side my 10cf 15" sub thats flat to 16hz and they do well. However, I keep them only playing content below 50hz because they tend to get a bit boomy in my room around 80-100hz. Keep in mind, that's just my room, and yours may play much flatter. Also, I don't go over half way with the gain. I think you may like them with your XV15's, as long as you can eq them correctly!
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Dayton Audio Sub 1200 12 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Dayton Audio Rs1200a 12 Reference Series Subwoofer Assembled , Dayton Audio Hts 1200b Home Theater Speaker Set Black , Dayton Audio
Gear in this thread - 1200b by PriceGrabber.com

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