Looking to spend $1,000 on a sub or subs - Need advice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 01-10-2012, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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So I finally have the funds to get serious about a subwoofer. I'm replacing an old JBL that has seen better days and am in need of an upgrade.

I'm looking to spend around $1000. Size and appearance don't matter at all. This is for my man cave, the room is 12' x 28' but my main listening area is in the 12' x 12' section. It's a long finished basement that raps around to a laundry/workshop area on the other side. I can place the sub or subs anywhere. They will be hooked up to an Onkyo 705 but I'm looking to upgrade later this year.

It's pretty much going to be used for 80% gaming and 20% movies. I don't really listen to music much but I do enjoy the soundtracks in games and movies very much. I'm looking for some bass I can really feel.

After doing a ton of research I have a few contenders.

1. HSU VTF-3 MK4 $759 shipped
2. 2 Epik Legends $986 shipped for both
3. 2 Outlaw LFM-1 Plus $998 shipped for both

So what do you guys think? Since I have the luxury of being able to hide all my wires and place the subs anywhere I'm leaning towards the pairs but which ones? Is there anything else I should be considering?
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post #2 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 03:31 AM
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Out of those I would go with the Outlaws. They will have better low end output for movies than the sealed legends and they sound great with music. I used to have one. You can also check out the hsu vtf15.

If you can wait, outlaw does some pretty great sales on subs and you could get a couple EX's for around you budget.

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post #3 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 04:02 AM
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Wouldn't the vtf15 be the best bang for the buck for $1000??
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post #4 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltysteven View Post

Wouldn't the vtf15 be the best bang for the buck for $1000??

For a single sub at the $1000 price point I think most will say it is. Also the Rythmik FV15.

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post #5 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 05:11 AM
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If your budget is firm at 1000, I would take a hard look a the CHT SS 18.1 sub/amp combo. You can get the sub and external amp for around this price and can add the second sub for only another ~545 if you decide you want duals in the future. One of the best values out there and two 18s in that room would sound awesome.

The Hsu and FV15 are also awesome choices in this pricepoint too, but in my opinion the best value goes to the CHT 18s.
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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For some reason I thought the VTF-15 would be too much for my room but it sound like it's not going to be. It is doable at right around $1000 shipped.

I looked at the CHT 18 but don't really want to do the seperate amp.

So should I go with 1 VTF-15 or 2 Outlaw Plus? I could call up Outlaw and see if they would work out a deal on some EXs also, doesn't hurt to try or wait for a sale. So another option possibly is VTF-15 or 2 Outlaw EX.
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyguymp View Post

For some reason I thought the VTF-15 would be too much for my room but it sound like it's not going to be. It is doable at right around $1000 shipped.

I looked at the CHT 18 but don't really want to do the seperate amp.

So should I go with 1 VTF-15 or 2 Outlaw Plus? I could call up Outlaw and see if they would work out a deal on some EXs also, doesn't hurt to try or wait for a sale. So another option possibly is VTF-15 or 2 Outlaw EX.

Repeat after me: There is no such thing as "too much sub"!!! The more sub you have the better it is! Always! It is not about loudness, since you always have the ability to turn to volume knob down. It's about max headroom, smooth frequency response, minimal distortion, effortless excursion, fast response, etc. The more sub you have (of the same sub quality), the better it will sound!!

Now, I own a VTH-15H and came from a pair of Velodyne DLS-5000R. When it was the time to upgrade, I had the same choice as you: go with a very good sub or go with a pair of good subs. Both have their pros and cons. I decided to go with the very good sub because I wanted better sound quality. My Velo were very punchy and tactile for movies, but where kind of slow for music and had poor sound quality. Second of all, I still have the possibility to upgrade by adding a second VTF-15H in the mix, which will destroy the twins Outlaws (on a 3:1 ratio).

The real downside of a single sub is that it can be a pain to find the right placement. It took me a month. But once you spot it, you're golden.

I'd go with the big sub and upgrade to a killer bass setup (by adding a second one) when the time comes.

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post #8 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 09:24 AM
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I believe the vtf15 has more output than two EX's.

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post #9 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyguymp View Post

For some reason I thought the VTF-15 would be too much for my room but it sound like it's not going to be. It is doable at right around $1000 shipped.

I looked at the CHT 18 but don't really want to do the seperate amp.

So should I go with 1 VTF-15 or 2 Outlaw Plus? I could call up Outlaw and see if they would work out a deal on some EXs also, doesn't hurt to try or wait for a sale. So another option possibly is VTF-15 or 2 Outlaw EX.

Although it's less visually appealing, there are some benefits to using an external amp:

-If there is an issue down the line, the replacement amp is of of YOUR choice, tons of options, lower cost.
-Much cheaper and more elaborate integrated EQs
-Easy upgrades for more power or adding multiple subs.
-No (significantly less) vibration of amp parts as they are separated from the enclosure. Debatable longer life expectancy vs. plate amps for this reason.

These are the reasons I chose to go passive with my CHT and JTR subs.


If your decision is only routed in the path of integrated amps, I would definitely do the VTF over the twin EXs. BELIEVE ME when I say you WILL want to upgrade in the future. Starting with one super nice sub is the right way to go when you could simply add more as opposed to having to sell two lesser subs.
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post #10 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I believe the vtf15 has more output than two EX's.

Above 25hz maybe...But it should be close to call.

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post #11 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I believe the vtf15 has more output than two EX's.

When we say output, what does that exactly mean.
I feel there are 3 different outputs to a sub. And please no one take offense because I really am just guessing here, so....
I think there's volume, which is the loudness.
There's the actual feeling of bass pressure.
And there's the hz, how deep sounding it can go.
It's tightness is just a quality of the product.

So what do you mean by output? Volume??
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post #12 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 11:10 AM
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I was in your situation last year and ended up buying a pair of Epik Legends. I couldn't be happier with my purchase! They are the least expensive item in my HT and perform many times above their price. I also looked into a pair of JL Audio F112's and yes, great subs, but really not that much of a different compared to the Legends.

Keep in mind though that I don't want bass to be heard.... but to perfectly integrate with my speakers. So take my advise for what it's worth.

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post #13 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyguymp View Post

So should I go with 1 VTF-15 or 2 Outlaw Plus? I could call up Outlaw and see if they would work out a deal on some EXs also, doesn't hurt to try or wait for a sale. So another option possibly is VTF-15 or 2 Outlaw EX.

Go with the VTF-15H unless the EXs happen to go on sale before you buy.

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post #14 of 24 Old 01-11-2012, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I believe the vtf15 has more output than two EX's.

If you are comparing the Audioholics VTF-15H and EX CEA2010 data, note that the VTF-15H is being measured at 1 meter, the EX at 2 meters. Look at where Gene Salla adjusted his data to compare the VTF to the PB12-NSD at 2 meters. 2 EXs can equal or exceed those numbers.

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post #15 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 07:44 PM
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Will the vtf15 ever go on sale?
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post #16 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltysteven View Post

Will the vtf15 ever go on sale?

Not unless it loses customers.
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post #17 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 08:21 PM
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I wish they had maybe a holiday sale. I'm about to retire my new emotiva ultra 12 . What can I expect from the vtf15 in comparison?
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-07-2012, 08:39 PM
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Another vote for the VTF15H and I am very satisfied with mine.
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 04:06 AM
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I just Happen to get over paid and have a$500 check. I'm really tempted to spend a ton of money. It won't be that bad if I sell my emotiva.
I just don't feel that bass with the ultra12 , nor do I get any deep lows. everyone seems to really love there vtf15s . That's abig plus for me, like the post above. the more I read the more I talk myself into this purchase. Has anyone ever been disappointed with the money they spent??
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post #20 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 05:12 AM
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I'm a broken record... Any of the ones sound fine as long as you get a pair and hopefully another pair for a total of four. You will cover a multiple seating area just fine.

Do you do any measuring ?
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post #21 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltysteven View Post

I just Happen to get over paid and have a$500 check. I'm really tempted to spend a ton of money. It won't be that bad if I sell my emotiva.
I just don't feel that bass with the ultra12 , nor do I get any deep lows. everyone seems to really love there vtf15s . That's abig plus for me, like the post above. the more I read the more I talk myself into this purchase. Has anyone ever been disappointed with the money they spent??

I do installations as part of my job so I get to play with a lot of equipment and it gives me an advantage of hearing and seeing things that I would otherwise have to spend a fortune on in trial and error with that said the VTF15H more than met my needs for a sub money well spent and would do
it all over again.
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post #22 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 06:25 AM
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If your price isn't firm, check out the SVS PB12-NSD and Rythmik FV15HP; both are better subs than the ones mentioned IMO, although they are a few hundred more.


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post #23 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 08:23 AM
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My room is 12x12x9 but it has a two doors that are always slid open into another 12x12x9 room. That room is located on the left of tv. There's big thick half walls where the doors slide into.

So I guess the room is 12x24x9. And right now my emotiva ultra 12 sounds okay. I think alot of the sound is lost in the other room. The sub actually faces the other room which probably isn't the best location. I want this room to rock!

Would it be better to face the sub towards the TV so maybe it bounces off of wall?
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post #24 of 24 Old 02-08-2012, 08:33 AM
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Not to scale but here is a drawing.
I can put the sub on the left side of couch anf also possibly behind it in the corner.

Attachment 236568
LL
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