Archaea's Kansas City Blind Subwoofer Shootout 2012 - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:04 AM
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Is there a thread about the the dual opposed MFW-15 sub? I'd like to read more about it.

Thanks

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, VideoForge HDMI II, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Is there a thread about the the dual opposed MFW-15 sub? I'd like to read more about it.

Thanks

Jim,

Not really, there are some pictures in the omaha thread....anything in particular you want to know?
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Is there a thread about the the dual opposed MFW-15 sub? I'd like to read more about it.

Thanks

There are probably a few builds of dual opposed MFW's in the DIY section. It was pretty much the only 15" driver available in the last year or so and everyone was building a DIY sub of some sort with the MFW-15..

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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Old 01-26-2012, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Is there a thread about the the dual opposed MFW-15 sub? I'd like to read more about it.

Thanks

Dont know of much regarding an opposed build, but sonically it doesn't make much difference.

There are a few over in the DIY forum like this one that originaly started things off http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1319489

There are also 2 threads over on our forum regarding the amp and and enclosure. I would start at the end and work backwards, the beginning of that thread doesn't have much info.

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Old 01-27-2012, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

For those of you who were waiting on the results...Your wait is over. We thought it'd be a bit of a final chuckle tonight to dole out the results shortly after some of you went to bed...hungry...

HERE'S HOW THE SCORES FELL!



Who else is a little surprised????

I do think the comments, scoresheets, and the votes that I'll post tomorrow will make everyone kinda scratch their head. At any rate thanks Luke for coming over and pretty much single handidly tabulating the scoresheet cause my brain is sloooooooooooowmotion right now and I can't even successfully count a bunch of 1's, 2's and 3's. I think I'll go to Denny's and join some random table like that one fellow did us last night. That's about how I feel right now. ha.

Goodnight fellows...Should be some good discussion in the morning!!!

nice! thanks for all the work you put into this and to all who participated

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Old 01-27-2012, 04:11 PM
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Good work boys.

I'd love to see how much you could squeak out of the Dual Opposed with that DSP3000 vs the dayton. Wonder if that would make a difference?

Either way those $70 woofers are in real good company....
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:06 AM
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Good work boys.

I'd love to see how much you could squeak out of the Dual Opposed with that DSP3000 vs the dayton. Wonder if that would make a difference?

Either way those $70 woofers are in real good company....

I would love to see how sub "D" would have fared with a different amplifier driving them. The iNUKE would probably be pretty decent at the impedence the MFW-15 dual opposed presents.

I really dig the Eminence driver (MFW-15, SubMersive, CS-18.T) sound. It is too bad those MFW-15 drivers are not available anymore, DIY'ers were having a lot of fun with them.

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Old 01-28-2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

I would love to see how sub "D" would have fared with a different amplifier driving them. The iNUKE would probably be pretty decent at the impedence the MFW-15 dual opposed presents.

I really dig the Eminence driver (MFW-15, SubMersive, CS-18.T) sound. It is too bad those MFW-15 drivers are not available anymore, DIY'ers were having a lot of fun with them.

At the very most you could get away with 2x the power of the modified SA-1000 Quattro amp. The modified SA-1000 probably wouldn't give up much in the comparison unless significantly more VLF was dialed in, which then chances over-driving or clipping. At that point you are getting to the hairy edge of where you have to watch for foul noises or protect against them. Indeed though, the right settings in an amp with on-board DSP would make for some nice performance at a great price. I've been giving some thought to making a better polished version of that driver available which I've already sampled... especially having boxes ready to load them into. They certainly make for a nice value.

It was interesting to see how much better Archea's receiver did when Audyssey only had one subwoofer channel to deal with, as the smoothness seen in the seat average was quite audible, as was the fact that the upper bass range was not as loud as the other subs.

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Old 01-28-2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

At the very most you could get away with 2x the power of the modified SA-1000 Quattro amp. The modified SA-1000 probably wouldn't give up much in the comparison unless significantly more VLF was dialed in, which then chances over-driving or clipping. At that point you are getting to the hairy edge of where you have to watch for foul noises or protect against them. Indeed though, the right settings in an amp with on-board DSP would make for some nice performance at a great price.

You are correct, there I go again overestimating the iNUKE NU3000DSP, lol. Perhaps the iNUKE NU6000DSP would be a better match for the Dual opposed MFW-15.

There are other DSP amps, of course, but the iNUKE series is more in line with the cost of the DIY MFW-15 builds. Then there are out board solutions like the Mini DSP.

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I've been giving some thought to making a better polished version of that driver available which I've already sampled... especially having boxes ready to load them into. They certainly make for a nice value.

The DIY crowd would cheer.

Quote:


It was interesting to see how much better Archea's receiver did when Audyssey only had one subwoofer channel to deal with, as the smoothness seen in the seat average was quite audible, as was the fact that the upper bass range was not as loud as the other subs.

I would like to see exactly what Audyssey did to the signal. Unfortunately, I don't believe Omni Mic gives us the resolution to see all the adjustments Audyssey makes.

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Old 01-28-2012, 11:58 AM
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Omni will show a difference with Aud. At least it did with my version of Aud in the Onkyo 885. Just run a trace with it on, save and run one with it off and compare them. With mine it bumped it up by close to 10 db below 20hz.

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Old 01-28-2012, 12:26 PM
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Omni will certainly show some difference. I don't believe it has the resolution to show everything Audyssey does, though. My understanding is that Audyssey MultiEQ XT has thousands of LFE data points.

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Old 01-28-2012, 01:19 PM
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Just thinking out loud here, but beside FR, HD and possibly decay information, what else would you be looking for in regards to what Aud is doing to the sub channel? Thanks.

James
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:38 PM
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Just FR, it would be nice to see what exactly was boosted and how much.

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Old 01-28-2012, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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My brother will want his subs back soon, so I'm taking tonight to listen to the Klipsch RW-12D pair again. I just went through the whole list of music based demo material with Audyssey and all EQ turned off. First pass I listened through the music on the "movie" eq setting on the klipsch. Now I'm listening back through the music with the "music" eq setting. Overall on movie mode I would say "They are boomy..." --- and frankly pretty terrible for music compared to what I'm used to (for sure in this mode). They don't make a mechanical rattle on the 100hz to 20hz, but they do issue some 'plastic'ky' port noise on the sine sweep.

I switched to music mode and watched the material again. It's better for music, some of the boominess is gone (NOT ALL), but I'll wager my omnimic would show the mid bass very hot. Sine sweeps don't sound smooth. Van Halen - hot for teacher drum entrance sounds like a mess. Surprisingly Pomp and Pipes sounded good and low?!?! Boom boom pow has some drum beats that are WAY louder than the others...That's a pretty good indication we aren't listening to a flat flat frequency response. Snoop Dogg sounds good! All the low stuff on Mia - Ghetto superstar (the mic noise that shakes my projector and you feel) is totally missing. Eminem sounds good. Lil Jon sounds good. Dubstep sounds boomy and bad. Bass I love you seems to be mostly missing that bottom note that shakes the projector, but the subs make no bad sounds in the attempt. The Klipsch subs seem a lot less tactile than my Captivator pair at the same volume. Bascially the Klipsch subs always sound to me like they are playing at their limits - even though they aren't. Good for the money - not soooo good when compared to greater (much more costly) options. My wife and I are going to watch the first movie in the Pacific series right now. After we are done with this I'll post some omnimic graphs of the Klipsch RW-12d in the different modes. I doubt many with Klipsch subs have omnimics or know REW.

I bought a couple of BIC V1220 subs half price at walmart for $97 each. It'll be interesting to compare them back and forth with the Klipsch.

In short - I'm very glad I paid for my Captivator pair -- they are well worth the extra cost.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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My wife and I ended up watching two of the Pacific series movies. The Klipsch subs sounded great on movies I thought. We didn't watch the movies loud, only at -17dB MLV on my AVR, but the Klipsch didn't struggle and reproduced the bass just fine. I still am not a big fan of these subs for all kinds of music, and I know had I turned the volume up some for our movie watching I probably would have heard some disagreeable plastic'ky noises from the port strain based on some of my other demo sessions, but at the -17 AVR volume the subs were very agreeable for movie watching.

I took some frequency response graphs after the movie to see what the different settings do. Here is what I found out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1390563

Edit:
After playing around with these subs some more while taking the FR graphs above I realized the presaved settings for movies and music from my brother didn't match and it wasn't helping them sound the best they could. When I set them identically and in my room to depth mode (flattest eq), their sound for music actually grew on me quite a bit. Still a bit boomy (or stressed/peaky?) on music, but not as bad as my first thoughts of the evening several hours ago...These are solid subs for $300-$350 a piece, and I will have no trouble continuing to recommend them in the future! I'm listening to the music lineup again through on -15 with subs several db's hot and some of the songs I was critical of before, sound much better now after matching the sub settings on their internal DSPs.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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Old 01-29-2012, 03:46 PM
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I agree that the Klipsch is a decent sub based on what I heard at your house. Although I do not think I would feel comfortable recommending duals when a superior single sub could be had for the same $600-700.

The Klipsch costs a bit more than the BIC subs. I did not get to hear the BIC at the Omaha GTG, how do you think it measures up to the Klipsch, Archaea?

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Old 01-29-2012, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Sometimes dual subs seem to have a sum total value of more than their parts. I know I have most always enjoyed pairs of subs.

I'm curious too on the direct comparison. I should have a better idea in about a week when the bic v1220 pair arrives from Walmart. I think the bic will roll off sooner and won't even try for the lowest notes. I suspect the klipsch is the better sub - by how much in real world audition is yet unknown.

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Old 02-07-2012, 06:08 AM
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was each pair of dual subs "stacked" ?

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Old 02-07-2012, 07:46 AM
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was each pair of dual subs "stacked" ?

No each sub was set roughly behind each main speaker. Separated.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:05 PM
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If any of you guys are looking for demo disks to test your equipment at your GTG let me know since I have a few blanks left. Here are the track listings. PM me only for info.



You have got to be kidding me, dude. Trying to sell Scubasteve's disk for your own profit. Never mind the fact that it has been made clear that this sort of disc is not to be sold under any circumstances due to obvious copyright issues.

Pitiful.

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Old 02-07-2012, 05:26 PM
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You have got to be kidding me, dude. Trying to sell Scubasteve's disk for your own profit. Never mind the fact that it has been made clear that this sort of disc is not to be sold under any circumstances due to obvious copyright issues.

Pitiful.

I assumed the cost would be to cover expenses. It's ridiculous to me to sell this for profit containing other people/companies media/property.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:45 PM
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This is from scubasteve himself and can be found in his thread. Sorry if I offended you.

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I think the price is fair cause it's a time consuming process with many steps, however price isn't the issue. At least from my position. No money, even under costs, should change hands. The outcome, if any such attention is called to this thread, is AVS banning such content and everyone losing out. Burn copies for any local friends, or for a theater meet, but beyond that don't let any money exchange hands. Again, content creators, those that worked on some of these movies, have seen this thread and we don't want the pot stirred.

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Old 02-18-2012, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I want to hear one of these...

http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=2_119

Who'll host a sub meet with one of these to audition?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I want to hear one of these...

http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=2_119

Who'll host a sub meet with one of these to audition?

When I go pick up my enclosures I'll demand to see/hear one.
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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When I go pick up my enclosures I'll demand to see/hear one.

If they have one - I'll go with you!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:28 PM
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is the nu3000 similar to the crown xls-1500? I picked up the latter about a week ago and have been playing with it on the 18.2, and it seems to come close to it's rated power. I only get the feeling they are similar due to the fact that it is just as light as the inuke, and appeared similar in design (at least on the outside)
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Inuke 3000 should be a bit more powerful by the specs - but crown specs are probably to be trusted more than behringer specs to a mintor degree - - - so they are probably somewhat equitable.

Is there a software interface on the crown model? That's one gripe I have about the Peavy IPR - is that as far as I can tell there is no software interface. That and the software interface for the INuke is top notch!!!

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Old 02-18-2012, 09:38 PM
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as far as I know, there isn't a software interface. Just built in hpf and lpf.

From what I can tell so far, it seems to have more balls then the dayton amp. What's also nice is that it has standard RCA inputs.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:14 PM
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I have reviewed this thread a few times, as I have been considering getting a pair of Seaton Submersives. It seems like the Submersives did outstanding in music and really well in movies as well. My focus will primarily be on home theater, and it appears that the JTR Subs did tremendous in this blind testing.

It makes deciding on a subwoofer combo more difficult: Submersive vs. Cap Pro vs. Cap Sealed vs. Orbit Shifter
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post

I have reviewed this thread a few times, as I have been considering getting a pair of Seaton Submersives. It seems like the Submersives did outstanding in music and really well in movies as well. My focus will primarily be on home theater, and it appears that the JTR Subs did tremendous in this blind testing.

It makes deciding on a subwoofer combo more difficult: Submersive vs. Cap Pro vs. Cap Sealed vs. Orbit Shifter

I don't think you would be unhappy with any of those choices. As many have mentioned, these subs were slightly better than each other. Not by much at all. It's all about personal preference like finish, customer service, size, powered or passive. I have a powered cap 1000 and it's an awesome sounding sub. It does everything good.
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