Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha I can’t wait to eat crow.
Mmmmmmmm….crow tastes like I may have purchased my DIY stuff too…soon.
Guess I’ll know when Archaea posts the results and what the others say.
So, that was fun and kind of what I expected has and will happen: mass chaos.
I had no idea what I was voting for.
Ported, Sealed, or was it the Orbit Shifter? Who the heck knows? I was trying to see if the lights were dimming or if I could hear amp noise (both of which, I think I saw at times) to try and determine if it was a JTR/Seaton with the 2400W amp, or the inuke with its noisy fans. That being said, even though I think I saw and heard those things, I am not modifying my guesses based on these tells.
Seriously, what an exercise in how bias plays a role, without the knowledge of which sub it is, your “confidence” in your “assessment” goes out the window. I only want to host or attend blind meets now if subs are being compared and not just for entertainment reasons. The way Jonathan organized and blinded people was very effective. A person with an AT screen theater and easy access would be the best..but this worked fine.
Oh man, I’m going to look silly, but lets get started I need to sleep.
We first listened to the Klipsch subs as a reference…unblinded. I thought they sounded good enough. I wish we would have listened to a couple of setups blinded to hear a few other setups and how the room sounded so I had a better reference of the variations, but it is what it is.
The music was scored for a potential of 12 points. The movies were a potential of 75 points.Music/Movies Score (/)
Sub A: (8/42)
I wrote that I thought I could feel BHD on movies a bit. Someone said there is a 20hz and a 8hz? on speclab of this. I wonder if we ever felt the 8hz. I couldn’t feel anything on Vikings (Poop and Pipes from the Omaha GTG
). Initially I thought maybe these were the Caps. I wrote tons of guesses through the night, but you can’t really finalize WHICH SUB you think it is until you have heard them all. Guessing seems futile.
I thought this sub was overall OK for movies. Nothing really wowed me, nothing sounded terrible. I was kidding on my sheet about chuffing. I didn’t hear any all night, but at the levels we were listening (115-120 Hz average?) in my seat…how could you. Bunk. I initially voted this as ported, but after hearing the rest, could be a lower sealed sub. The output didn’t appear to match that of several others, leading me to think of them as smaller drivers or less displacement per science. I’m sure I’m an idiot on this one.Guesses (in order of my fake confidence): 1) HSU, 2) Cap Pro
Sub B: (12/51)This thing dominated music. I really hope it isn’t the Cap Pros because I’m going to be the butt of jokes and feeling stupid for months until Archaea forgets I say this (he won’t). These were BY FAR the best to me for music. Destroyed the music. Perfect. Articulate. Fun. Of course I think they are sealed, because sealed subs are the BEST FOR MUSIC, right? Man, I hope I’m right on at least that. Did I mention these absolutely "beast mode" the music?
The reason I feel these may be the caps or ported, was during the movie sections, I felt TONS of air movement by my legs. I felt these did pretty solid overall. There was a weird part of BHD where the bass cut out for a few seconds. I looked at Kwarny during it to my left and he noted it too. Amp issues? They were a little boomy at times, but overall very nice. I like these. What are they. Archaea is so mean.Guesses: (IOOMFC): 1) Submersive HP, 2) Cap S
Sub C: (10/58)
I was really happy with these. I felt they had great depth (more output?) on music and were fun. Again, felt like a sealed sound during music. Music is really the thing I felt I could qualify differences on with all of the subs, the movies I was clutching in the dark for something. During movies, I have no f@#$#@ clue what was playing. I can’t figure out why. It had the highest output to this point on HTTYD, and the Hulk had the nice shock wave on the cop car scene where they launch into each other and break the marquee on the theater. Nice. Are these our DIY?Guesses (IOOMFC): 1) Dual Opposed MFW-15
Sub D: (7/47)
These fared the lowest on the music to me. I felt their depth was the weakest, but otherwise they were smooth and had a nice sound to them. I say their depth was the worst, because they were the only ones I heard that made a weird sound on the 100-20Hz sine sweep. Around the bottom of the sweep, I heard a mechanical rattle. I thought it came from the sub(s), but maybe it came from something in the room…pretty sure it was the sub though. I thought they blended well with mains, I started getting annoyed with the subs being hotter than the mains in some clips/tracks (SEE DUBstep), but these didn’t overpower. These sounded like my CHTs I just sold in sound imaging……
For movies these were weird. I had a few clips where the sounded great, but also a handful that were just OK. These didn’t have as much output as all of the other setups except the Sub A and the Klipsch they topped to me in my spot. I’m basing my guesses here on my perceived lower output ability in Archaea’s room (vs my GTG).Guesses (IOOMFC): 1) HSU or CHT
Sub E: (10/59)
This sub cranked in output. I’m sure it was the combination of following D’s lower output ability, and the fact this just had some great output. The music was solid, fun, but I thought these sounded a bit hollow on some tracks like my F-20s have sounded. Horn? I’m sure not because I’m a bad guesser. The 100-20 Hz sound wave was freaking intense. Maybe the loudest of the night. Where this really shined was the movie tracks. Output in spades. I kept thinking these were the Orbit Shifters and I might as well stick with that.Guesses (IOOMFC): 1) Orbit Shifter, 2) Submersive HP
Sub F: (10/54)
I also enjoyed these subs on music. I thought they were the best blending of the night (a bit less output than others, comparable to D feeling?) so I felt they blended well. If that doesn’t make sense, well, Archaea asked for subjective comments. I think they are pointless after last night, but I’ll type random thoughts anyways.
I felt these were airy, solid, nothing bad but nothing really stood out. I haven’t been guessing ported or sealed have I for a while. Well, that is because I have no freaking idea at this point in the night. I just kept writing sealed or ported based on air movement at my legs. I know, totally bogus reasoning but besides music with B, I had nothing to go on. This <15hz and wanting sealed before the GTG, and now seeing that I can’t tell, may have me selling my Pi-18s and Clone amps if I see the results and decide to be rash. I need the DIYers to keep me keepin’ on!!!Guesses (IOOMFC): 1) Cap Pro, 2) CHT
Sub G: (11/60)
Last sub of the night. Maybe we saved the best for last?!?!?!??!?
Music it was right behind B, the only difference in I felt B had more depth. Man, I really hope B isn’t the Cap Pros. Please. Please.
These things rocked. Great way to end the night.
I felt these were sealed. Man, I’m a basketcase.
These were my favorite on movies by a nose. I was digging what they were putting out. Good output, no faults I heard, many positives.
I changed a few of these from my sheet or added a 2nd possibility after Archaea scanned them immediately after the GTG. Archaea will yell at me for that. Whatever, he wasn’t blinded! This is hard to decide what I think.
So, what did I learn? Well, if all of my guesses are wrong, than either I should find another hobby, should have saved money to buy either G or B or E based on my observations, or build out my DIY stuff and see how it compares at a future GTG?Guesses (IOOMFC): 1) Cap SMUSIC RANKINGS:
1) B, 2) G, 3) C, E, F (no particular order), 6) A, 7) D
1) G, 2) E, 3) C, 4) F, 5) B, 6) D 7) A
Why was B so much better with music in my book? I want to hear whatever those are blinded again against G, E, C. I think I’d take my favorite out of those and buy them. Maybe another GTG is needed. If I would have ranked B higher in movies my favorite overall would be easy, but since G was consistently awesome in my book, it is my overall favorite.G is HuskerOmaha’s Anointed Winner.
(Please, please, please, please, don’t be the HSU or Cap Pros…if it is the Cap Pros I’m saying there was something fishy going on and there was a “home turf” advantage.) I put qualifiers everywhere in this writeup because Archaea has it out for me.
I hope people see this for what it was: an exercise in the exclusion of bias and the results. There is bias in many things. I work in pharmacy/pharmaceuticals. Amazing how much bias there is when you know what is there. I loved this exercise. I think people should attempt to do blind testing (if they are comparing subs and not just doing it for pure social fun).
There was tons of downtime, much more than the actual listening. I’m happy there was, I started getting listening fatigue after the 4th sub. I was sitting directly between the center and left speakers. Maybe with my speakers I wouldn’t have gotten it as early, because horns are better.
A few other things….those raving about the Orbit Shifters are right, prodigious output. I think these could do 10k cube rooms with ease. No way I would need 2 of these unless you really had to smooth out the room. RMK? must be deaf. The thing is, I wouldn’t say they “DESTROYED” all of the subs in attendance. Yeah, maybe they shook apart drivers and some peoples subs won’t work when they get home,
but when you are playing at 130+ dbs, there aren’t any notes anymore. It is just insane loudness.
Don’t get me wrong, great subs. Look fantastic. I’ll find out where I ranked them, but they are fun. I don’t know how Archaea’s house isn’t more messed up than just unseated tiling.
Another thing, we were listening LOUD. About +15 db over the Omaha GTG. I think it was about 5 db too loud. The mains were overbearing after a while in the front row. I had to borrow some earplugs for that insane dubstep. If I host another GTG I would think we would do about 10 db less and push the subs up another 3 db or so and try that. I also had a head cold so that played into my ears hating life for the last 3 hours. But, I couldn’t leave my ear plugs in, I tried on the last two but lost the dynamics and everything sounded like I was under water….took the plugs out to grade accurately for all of you! Hahahaa.. Desertdome thought it was fine, but he was in the second row and is an old fogey. My ears are still young.
Anyways, this should be fun.
I think I could have most of these subs and probably be satisfied, if I wanted to be picky, I want the cheapest and smallest form factor option in this order….G, E, B, C.
I wish we had another day. I think many people got to find out what the subs were and got to talk in person about observations after finding out the results (these people had already done their posting, I was tired). I got left out. After hearing the results, I’m going to need phone numbers of everyone.
Much more random observations and thoughts to discuss on the Orbit Shifter, the “we weren’t playing to the subs limits or LOUD” thoughts, but I’m tired and want to go to bed. I don’t get government holidays off.POST THE ANSWERS ARCHAEA, I DON’T CARE IF YOU ARE IN THE DOGHOUSE! You okayed the LOUD!