HSU VTF-2, VTF-3, or SVS PB12 NSD?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 01-15-2012, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys! I was set on the SVS, but since I can't purchase for a month or so, of course I'm still looking and comparing. I didn't see this exact thread so I wanted to ask your opinions:

I know room size/ acoustic treatment etc matters, but I want to put that aside for now. For a 95% movie/gaming and 5% music, which one of these subwoofers would you purchase? Low extension, clean, low distortion bass is what I'm looking for.

Let me know if any of these will please, but still tell me what one you would purchase if you were me, and why you would pick that one over the rest. I respect brand loyalty, so hopefully this purchase will turn me into a loyal HSU/SVS customer. This is my first REAL subwoofer.

Speakers are: Polk cs20 center, polk tsi300 front left and right, polk tsi100 surrounds.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 40 Old 01-15-2012, 03:50 PM
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What's the size of your space in cubic feet? The room volume (and any connected open areas) affects performance.

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post #3 of 40 Old 01-15-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post

I know room size/ acoustic treatment etc matters, but I want to put that aside for now.

I understand you want to be that aside but without that room info it would be tough to give you any usefukl recommendations. For example lets say you have 6,000 cubic feet room (lets say we dont know this too). Now you are asking us to give you recommendations...some might list subs that are only really useful for 3000cubic feet rooms.


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What's the size of your space in cubic feet? The room volume (and any connected open areas) affects performance.

So many folks coming here and posting which subs and no room info or budget lol. Without that information we can't really help you! The best ones are the folks who come here and say money isn't an issue....dangerous thing to say in this hobby.

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4 of 40 Old 01-15-2012, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, I didn't think I had to list my budget because the subs I narrowed it down to are in the thread title: HSU VTF-2, VTF-3, or SVS PB12 NSD. Any of these subs will fit where they need to go, but my budget is $800 if someone really really thinks going with a HSU or a SVS sub is just not worth it. I want a ported sub.

I live in a dorm room now...i know, i know. The acoustics suck etc, but I don't care. I want an awesome sub that I can buy now that will be good for a while until I get my own place and can go all out. Even in my own place I'd imagine the room would be on the smaller-medium size.

I realy just want to know what other people would choose to buy between these three subwoofers if they were me, and why they would buy that particular one over the others.

95% movies/game 5% music.

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post #5 of 40 Old 01-15-2012, 10:14 PM
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HSU and SVS subs are great My vote is for one of the HSUs.

HSU rates the VTF-2 MK4 for "large rooms." Click that icon on the page. 4500 cubic feet is a pretty big room. Should be more than enough unless you move to a big place.

You realize your neighbors in the dorm will HATE you

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post #6 of 40 Old 01-15-2012, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I know all the guys in my wing, I'm an RA on my floor. I'm sure my guys will want to come in and watch I'm not gonna crank it too loud. I haven't gotten any complaints with my speakers so far, so I'm not too worried

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post #7 of 40 Old 01-15-2012, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post

I know all the guys in my wing, I'm an RA on my floor. I'm sure my guys will want to come in and watch I'm not gonna crank it too loud. I haven't gotten any complaints with my speakers so far, so I'm not too worried

Go ahead. Get the bigger SVS or HSU, although I would lean toward the HSU for the maximum extension mode. Either one will be great. It'll feel like Thor's lightning striking in your room, the blades on the helicoptor in Black Hawk Down are coming right at you, or the train wreck in Super 8 is happening right in front of you. And I don't mean that it will shake the walls and make a lot of noise like cheaper 12" subs. In that small room, these subs will make it feel very close to real like some kind of ride at Disneyland. You are in for a big (but fun) surprise

Make certain you get some of these 4 or 5 star blu-rays before the sub gets there: The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts. You'll have all the guys on your floor wanting to come and watch movies in your room.

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post #8 of 40 Old 01-15-2012, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I've got a few of them on the list. I can't wait to get a sub! I really love bass, but I only like it when it blends perfectly with a system. I hate people who just crank their subs to show off, I think it sounds like crap. Do you have any first hand experience with either HSU or SVS subs? If so, how difficult are they to blend with a system?

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post #9 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 12:06 AM
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Yes. Either sub will blend fine. Set the gain (volume) on the sub down very low, the phase at 0, and run the room correction software with your receiver. If the receiver sets the channel/trim level of the sub less than -3db or greater than +3db, adjust the gain on the gain on the back of the sub and repeat until in that range. Then, set all your speakers to small and adjust the crossover on the receiver. 80hz is good to try first. If you need a little more bass, turn the channel level on the receiver up a couple of db.

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post #10 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 12:11 AM
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Hsu vtf 2.4 for a dorm room! You could go 3.4 if you plan on using it later down the road

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #11 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 05:23 AM
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Buy big. Buy once. You don't hear complaints about a new sub's being too powerful ;-)

I have a PC12-NSD and I strongly encourage you to check it out. It's the cylinder form of the PB12-NSD. I don't know the dimensions of your room but if they still make dorms like the ones I lived in, then floor space is still at a premium. SVSounds' cylinder models are easy on the floor space and they're conversation pieces as well.

Cel's assessment (in a small space, these monster subs are more like an amusement park ride than a speaker) is spot-on.

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post #12 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post

Hey guys! I was set on the SVS, but since I can't purchase for a month or so, of course I'm still looking and comparing. I didn't see this exact thread so I wanted to ask your opinions:

I know room size/ acoustic treatment etc matters, but I want to put that aside for now. For a 95% movie/gaming and 5% music, which one of these subwoofers would you purchase? Low extension, clean, low distortion bass is what I'm looking for.

Let me know if any of these will please, but still tell me what one you would purchase if you were me, and why you would pick that one over the rest. I respect brand loyalty, so hopefully this purchase will turn me into a loyal HSU/SVS customer. This is my first REAL subwoofer.

Speakers are: Polk cs20 center, polk tsi300 front left and right, polk tsi100 surrounds.

Thanks!

The svs because I prefer front firing, either the vtf-3 or svs is going to preform very closely to each other so it comes down to aesthetics... why front firing? I like to watch the driver do it's thing.

You may not have got called on yet but even at low volumes bass travels through everything easily.
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post #13 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Haha the plan is to go big now so it will last for a while. I love how much overkill I have in a dorm room. I like showing it off too Everyone who comes in my room for the first time, the first thing I usually get it "holy s***!" I love it! You can never have too much power as I'm sure all of you know. They have gain/volume knobs for a reason I know bass travel even at low volumes, but I have turned my system pretty loud before and no one even complains. I will be more careful once I get a sub.

I'm really torn now between the HSU VTF-3 MK4 or the SVS PB12 NSD. The cylinder wont fit where it needs to go (under desk) so that's out, plus I happen to adore the "big black box" look, so I wouldn't go cylinder even if I had the space.

According to the websites, the HSU hits lower than the SVS, but I hear HSU subs are more musical so that's why I'm on the fence. I kind of really like the look of the front firing SVS though. HSU goes to 16HZ, SVS goes to 18HZ, and the HSU is cheaper. Idk what to do. Id like to try them both but I dont want to pay return shipping, so I'm just going by the advice you guys give me. I know it depends on the room and placement, but is 2Hz really something that I would notice I'm missing on alot of blu ray movies??

Any more preferences would be greatly appreciated!

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post #14 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 08:52 AM
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You won't get a definitive answer here over which of those subs is better. It's like the Coke vs Pepsi, Marvel vs. DC, or Battlefield vs Call of Duty debates--no matter what everyone else tells you, you can't really know which is better for you unless you have tried them, and one might even be slightly better in one room and setup over another. Right now while they are the same price with shipping, I would go with the HSU because of the extra configuration options. But otherwise, they are so similar in performance that you can't make a wrong decision.

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post #15 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You won't get a definitive answer here over which of those subs is better. It's like the Coke vs Pepsi, Marvel vs. DC, or Battlefield vs Call of Duty debates--no matter what everyone else tells you, you can't really know which is better for you unless you have tried them, and one might even be slightly better in one room and setup over another. Right now while they are the same price with shipping, I would go with the HSU because of the extra configuration options. But otherwise, they are so similar in performance that you can't make a wrong decision.

Well said and worth repeating either way you can't really go wrong.
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post #16 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post

Haha the plan is to go big now so it will last for a while. I love how much overkill I have in a dorm room. I like showing it off too Everyone who comes in my room for the first time, the first thing I usually get it "holy s***!" I love it! You can never have too much power as I'm sure all of you know. They have gain/volume knobs for a reason I know bass travel even at low volumes, but I have turned my system pretty loud before and no one even complains. I will be more careful once I get a sub.

I'm really torn now between the HSU VTF-3 MK4 or the SVS PB12 NSD. The cylinder wont fit where it needs to go (under desk) so that's out, plus I happen to adore the "big black box" look, so I wouldn't go cylinder even if I had the space.

According to the websites, the HSU hits lower than the SVS, but I hear HSU subs are more musical so that's why I'm on the fence. I kind of really like the look of the front firing SVS though. HSU goes to 16HZ, SVS goes to 18HZ, and the HSU is cheaper. Idk what to do. Id like to try them both but I dont want to pay return shipping, so I'm just going by the advice you guys give me. I know it depends on the room and placement, but is 2Hz really something that I would notice I'm missing on alot of blu ray movies??

Any more preferences would be greatly appreciated!

Since you are only 5% music you should get the SVS PB-12NSD. It will have better deep bass without having a port plugged. In other words the native tune of the PB-12 is lower than the native tune of the HSU (both ports open). It is almost always better to run in native tune, especially if you are really going to crank it. Simple as that.
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post #17 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going with the SVS. I hope I LOVE IT!!

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post #18 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 05:14 PM
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Come back and tell us how it sounds. I'm sure everyone here would like to know what happens when you put an SVS PB12-NSD in a small dorm room

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post #19 of 40 Old 01-16-2012, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Since you are only 5% music you should get the SVS PB-12NSD. It will have better deep bass without having a port plugged. In other words the native tune of the PB-12 is lower than the native tune of the HSU (both ports open). It is almost always better to run in native tune, especially if you are really going to crank it. Simple as that.

I don't think this is quite correct. I don't believe there is a native tuning point with the VTF subs except to what it is tuned at the moment. Multiple tuning points doesn't necessarily mean only one is the real tuning point, and the others are fake.

Also to the OP, I hope your dorm is permissive. My lil bro nearly got kicked out of his dormitory for his big old Sony boombox. A heavy duty home theater sub will be heard through out half the building, guaranteed, and the deeper the bass, the farther the sound will travel. I don't know what kind of dudes you have in your building, maybe its a non-stop party place, but if it isn't you may end up being quite a nuisance to many of your neighbors.
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post #20 of 40 Old 01-17-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Yes. Either sub will blend fine. Set the gain (volume) on the sub down very low, the phase at 0, and run the room correction software with your receiver. If the receiver sets the channel/trim level of the sub less than -3db or greater than +3db, adjust the gain on the gain on the back of the sub and repeat until in that range. Then, set all your speakers to small and adjust the crossover on the receiver. 80hz is good to try first. If you need a little more bass, turn the channel level on the receiver up a couple of db.

hey man this helps me big time! b/c when i run YPAO it tells me to set the gain on the sub to between 10 and 12 o clock and after YPAO it sets the sub to -10db every time! LOL and that's pretty much inaudible.

i remedied it by turning up the db level on my yamaha avr rather than the subs gain b/c i was already at 12 o clock

so i put it from -10 to +3db

should i have done it the other way as you said by tweaking the gain on the sub vs the avr?

and is that a real starting point to begin testing (b/t 10 and 12?) as it doesn't leave much room for increase if you're only turning it up via the sub gain and not the db level on the avr

thanks

also OP: i just got a vtf3.3 and it would DESTROY your dorm room ...so the svs will certainly also do the trick!

i just got a new subwoofer and now i want another one...what in the world is wrong with me?!
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post #21 of 40 Old 01-17-2012, 10:16 AM
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I don't think this is quite correct. I don't believe there is a native tuning point with the VTF subs except to what it is tuned at the moment. Multiple tuning points doesn't necessarily mean only one is the real tuning point, and the others are fake.

Well... I've definitely heard users and pro reviewers alike say that VTFs sound best (produce the lowest distortion with the highest output) when no ports are plugged.

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post #22 of 40 Old 01-17-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I don't think this is quite correct. I don't believe there is a native tuning point with the VTF subs except to what it is tuned at the moment. Multiple tuning points doesn't necessarily mean only one is the real tuning point, and the others are fake.

Also to the OP, I hope your dorm is permissive. My lil bro nearly got kicked out of his dormitory for his big old Sony boombox. A heavy duty home theater sub will be heard through out half the building, guaranteed, and the deeper the bass, the farther the sound will travel. I don't know what kind of dudes you have in your building, maybe its a non-stop party place, but if it isn't you may end up being quite a nuisance to many of your neighbors.

It's not a question of a tune being real, or fake, it's which tune allows the sub to run with the most ports open, which minimizes port noise and minimizes the chances of damaging the sub because of amp settings/port plugging combinations. I believe that bottoming the driver is much less likely if both ports are open. Why do you think that HSU will void the warranty if you run a VTF model with a port plugged and the wrong setting on the plate amp?

Consider that the JTR Captivator originally was tuned to 15Hz (or you could specify 15 or 20 hz tuning with both ports open). I think mojomike has a Cap with 15 Hz native tune.

After a short while, Jeff Permanian changed the native tuning to 20 Hz with both ports open. Now, if you want 15 Hz tuning you have to plug a port. So, even a mighty performer like the Cap was ultimately changed so that you have to risk port noise by plugging one port if you want to use it in 15Hz tune.

Now, consider smaller, less expensive subs like the Outlaws and HSU models which also involve plugging a port. These subs are much more likely to be at a disadvantage with one port plugged, especially if the ports are only 3 inches instead of 4 inches.

If I am not mistaken, Rythmik does not use port plugging yet you can change the "tuning" down to 14Hz on some models.

Bottom line, there is no free lunch. You want Maximum Extension with one port plugged, you give up headroom and often, output at higher frequencies.
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post #23 of 40 Old 01-17-2012, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't think this is quite correct. I don't believe there is a native tuning point with the VTF subs except to what it is tuned at the moment. Multiple tuning points doesn't necessarily mean only one is the real tuning point, and the others are fake.

Also to the OP, I hope your dorm is permissive. My lil bro nearly got kicked out of his dormitory for his big old Sony boombox. A heavy duty home theater sub will be heard through out half the building, guaranteed, and the deeper the bass, the farther the sound will travel. I don't know what kind of dudes you have in your building, maybe its a non-stop party place, but if it isn't you may end up being quite a nuisance to many of your neighbors.

I'm not worried about being a pain to my neighbors. I don't care if I could potentially piss people off. It has a volume knob on it. I'm not going to spend my money on a crappy, cheap subwoofer just because I live in a dorm room now, only to buy the SVS in a year when I move into another place where I can really use it properly. Id rather just buy an awesome one now, granted it's totally overkill for my room now, but Ill be able to use it for alot of years before I really need/want something better. I think any 5.1 home theater system in a dorm isn't really needed, but I dont care. Appreciate the concern, but I'm not worried. It has a volume knob for a reason. Id rather have way too much power anyway Since I got the space for it, I'm getting it

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post #24 of 40 Old 01-17-2012, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Come back and tell us how it sounds. I'm sure everyone here would like to know what happens when you put an SVS PB12-NSD in a small dorm room

Will do

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post #25 of 40 Old 03-05-2014, 04:16 PM
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So is the opinion the svs pb12 nsd is more like the vtf-3?
Where would the vtf-2 fall into line, and how much bass would one give up with a vtf2 compread to a pb12?
Thank you,
Jason

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post #26 of 40 Old 03-05-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by f430 View Post

So is the opinion the svs pb12 nsd is more like the vtf-3?
Where would the vtf-2 fall into line, and how much bass would one give up with a vtf2 compread to a pb12?
Thank you,
Jason

Here are some CEA measurements of both. Let me stress that this is just an approximate comparison and not a precise comparison. CEA is not precise enough for exactitude when comparing data from different measurement sets. This should only give you a rough idea.


___VTF2 1 port
16 Hz 94.7
20 Hz 99.7
25 Hz 102
32 Hz 104.4
40 Hz 106.7
50 Hz 109.1
63 Hz 109.5
80 Hz 109.3

___VTF2 2 port
20 Hz 98.1
25 Hz 104
32 Hz 107.2
40 Hz 109.8
50 Hz 110.5
63 Hz 110.3
80 Hz 110

___PB12 NSD
16 Hz 93.3
20 Hz 103.2
25 Hz 105
32 Hz 105.9
40 Hz 106.5
50 Hz 107.3
63 Hz 108
80 Hz 108.7
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post #27 of 40 Old 03-05-2014, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Here are some CEA measurements of both. Let me stress that this is just an approximate comparison and not a precise comparison. CEA is not precise enough for exactitude when comparing data from different measurement sets. This should only give you a rough idea.


___VTF2 1 port
16 Hz 94.7
20 Hz 99.7
25 Hz 102
32 Hz 104.4
40 Hz 106.7
50 Hz 109.1
63 Hz 109.5
80 Hz 109.3

___VTF2 2 port
20 Hz 98.1
25 Hz 104
32 Hz 107.2
40 Hz 109.8
50 Hz 110.5
63 Hz 110.3
80 Hz 110

___PB12 NSD
16 Hz 93.3
20 Hz 103.2
25 Hz 105
32 Hz 105.9
40 Hz 106.5
50 Hz 107.3
63 Hz 108
80 Hz 108.7

Thank you!
Looks pretty similar to my noob eyes.
I guess for my tiny 1440 cu ft room I can't really go wrong!

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post #28 of 40 Old 03-06-2014, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by f430 View Post

Thank you!
Looks pretty similar to my noob eyes.
I guess for my tiny 1440 cu ft room I can't really go wrong!

Right. For that size room, you could go with any of the ID 12" ported subs and you would have plenty of output.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
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post #29 of 40 Old 03-06-2014, 12:50 PM
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I went to order my sub today and the sale ended. See what happens when you think too much? wink.gif
LOL

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post #30 of 40 Old 03-06-2014, 01:46 PM
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I went to order my sub today and the sale ended. See what happens when you think too much? wink.gif
LOL

Don't wait too much longer. With that kind of luck, might run out of stock on your other choices. What is your next top choice?

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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