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JTR Captivator S (Sealed)

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subwoofers
75K views 588 replies 122 participants last post by  Jeff Permanian 
#1 ·

Specs as taken from JTR Forum:


+/-1db 22hz-104hz ground plane (-6db at 15hz, with built in 110hz lowpass)

21" x 21" x 16.25" deep (16.75" with grill)

Heavily braced 1" thick Baltic Birch cabinet

DSP optimised 2400 watt RMS class D amplifier

XLR balanced input

Magnetically attached, fabric covered grill

Rubber feet

MSRP $2999

Internet Direct $2299


New Introductory Offer of $1999 January 16th thur shipping Jan 23th.


Introductory price is one time only, payment in full, limited quantities, first come/first serve and no other discounts apply.


____________________________________________________


There were first shown at the KC Blind GTG held January 14, 2012.


They faired well and placed high in listener reviews and scoring tabulations.



I am torn between duals of these or the progression of a DIY project.


Discuss!
 
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#427 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23390003


^^^Thanks Luke. Sure has not come together just yet -- got to start all over really, but maybe I'll look to get it tailored just right this time. Am I right to think that with a RADIO SHACK sound meter, if I stand ten feet from the sub with the processor's level test tone, get a reading of 75dB, or adjust the volume dial on the unit until I get that, then I should be all set for running Audyssey and getting the proper mix assembled? Is that how it is done?

I would do one sub and set it to ~80 db. Then set amp on the other one same level gain so gain matched. That way audyssey will come in ~ -8 or 9. This way you can run subs hot ( and i have a feeling you will
) by turning up sub out up to 8 or 9 db without going into the +. As you approach reference you can clip sub out if in the positive, so i prefer to keep at or below zero but make sure its not at minimum of -15 during calibration.


Another option is doing it at 75 like you said, then measure to see what result is, then turn up gain a notch or two them measure to see increase spl and turn down sub out accordingly. Doing it these ways means you always know where flat is and how far above reference you are running the subs.


An easy way to test subs is play the most demanding scenes such as wotw pod emergence. Play scene each time increasing volume 3 db going to 1db increments at max. Once out of excursion or amp (has clip lights) you know you are covered up to that level for all movies. Want to turn up the overall system, turn sub out down 6db and overall volume up 6db, your subs will be running at same level.



added: dont forget turn off dynamic eq, it boosts down low and can eat up sub headroom. Some use it but its not for me, i can adjust surround levels and sub on my own.
 
#428 ·
^^^Thanks much -- all very very useful stuff. And yes I would agree that if you set limits to WOTW, you will likely be covered for all movies -- the jet flyover scene shut down two amps when at -14 overall volume. Yeah, that is what I'm trying to avoid for sure. And yes you are right, I will run subs as hot as I can get away with -- locking in the certainty solution is what I need to do! Thanks again....
 
#429 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23390371


^^^Thanks much -- all very very useful stuff. And yes I would agree that if you set limits to WOTW, you will likely be covered for all movies -- the jet flyover scene shut down two amps when at -14 overall volume. Yeah, that is what I'm trying to avoid for sure. And yes you are right, I will run subs as hot as I can get away with -- locking in the certainty solution is what I need to do! Thanks again....

Your welcome! Just want you to get the best out of your sweet sub system. You must like the subs really hot, dual s2 should have reference covered in all but the most punishing rooms. I used to run pretty hot but once i got room under control with treatment, i have much more interest in the 80-300 hz bass and like a more balanced sound now. My overall listening levels have gone up about 6 db to - 8 for movies as well from contolling reflections and bass modes and decay.


Dont know what amps shut down or what speakers you run. If you are looking at more efficient mains with controlled directivity minimize room issues, those noesis are a mighty fine option.



Report back on your findings after setup and testing.
 
#430 ·
Thanks man. I'm pretty sure the room is fairly dead -- all the walls are covered with thick exotic imported rugs and just about every bit of furniture is draped with tapestries and wall hanging type stuff. Not so when I moved in -- in fact the high-end reflections were so piercing and penetrating just from voices alone, my young niece could not stand to be in there to talk about what I planned to do with it.
 
#433 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23486948


^Nice! Got to love them caps.

The Caps don't even break a sweat, through ANY bass passage I throw their way. My ears and body would give out, before the speakers would start to flinch. These sealed 18's sound absolutely amazing for music, nice clean and tight! I can't see anyone wanting "more" in my room, I think I will be holding onto these for a long time...
 
#436 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cvetan1  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23490441


Well, I'm trying to sell a pair, can't cut them down to much.
.


The SB13s sound very "small" compared to the caps. The caps are every bit as musical to me as well.

Most already know the SB13U's are great subs, so even if you "cut them down" I don't imagine it would dissuade too many people. If they're still in good shape you probably won't have much trouble selling them either, so it should work out well for you.
 
#438 ·
No worries - I didn't think you were actually going trash the SB13U. Other then they're a bit pricey there isn't much bad that can realistically be said about them.


The sealed Caps are a killer subs, no doubt about it. I've heard a bunch of Jeff's creations -- including the S2 several times -- and his stuff lives up to all the hype. Wait until they're broken in and tuned; we may never hear from you again...
 
#441 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23571120


It's possible but that would depend on the room and how much gain it provides. My single S2 is flat to 5 Hz at reference at my MLP which is 9 feet away with plenty of headroom, and my room is a lot bigger and opens to the rest of the house.
Just to be clear, your saying your single S2 can hit 115db or more at 5hz?
 
#443 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23571120


It's possible but that would depend on the room and how much gain it provides. My single S2 is flat to 5 Hz at reference at my MLP which is 9 feet away with plenty of headroom, and my room is a lot bigger and opens to the rest of the house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23571140


Just to be clear, your saying your single S2 can hit 115db or more at 5hz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23571271

Exactly. Unless his HT is in a concrete closet, I don't think it's possible.


What he probably meant was that he is flat to 5hz, and can hit reference levels. However, when he hits those reference levels, he's no longer flat to 5hz...
 
#444 ·
I used to think 115db was needed at all frequencies (even more with bass management) at reference. Some posts by bossobass enlightened me to the fact its not in any current source material. Here is a post of his i saved from a year ago.


"There is no content encoded at 0dBFS at 3 Hz on any DVD, CD or BR that I'm aware of. That would use all of the headroom of the entire 3-120 Hz bandwidth requiring zero content anywhere but 3 Hz.


The specLab graphs show it and Maxmercy's calibrated peak hold graphs confirm it. Soundtrack mix desks have flashing red lights and many even auto mute if the headroom ceiling is breeched even by a fraction of a dB. It doesn't happen except in 2 confirmed instances in all of the movies reviewed to date (over 1,000 titles), and in those cases where there was digital clipping, the soundtrack was roundly panned for it.


105 (-10dBFS @ 3 Hz) is an exceptional situation and 107dB is extremely rare."


If the single digit content is being routed from the mains with bass management each of those channels is limited to 105. So even though it theoretical we could see high levels, there haven't been any confirmed cases of 115dB+ in the single digits that i know of.


i know and agree with what you are saying though. It takes a lot of displacement to reproduce the most demanding content to the single digits at reference in a typical room. Really just putting this out there as i thought some might find it interesting or informational.
 
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#445 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23390683


Thanks man. I'm pretty sure the room is fairly dead -- all the walls are covered with thick exotic imported rugs and just about every bit of furniture is draped with tapestries and wall hanging type stuff. Not so when I moved in -- in fact the high-end reflections were so piercing and penetrating just from voices alone, my young niece could not stand to be in there to talk about what I planned to do with it.

Did you ever get the results you were looking for? A few points i didnt get to before. We want broadband treatment so reflections arent eq'd. If treble is taken away from reflection, then the reflection is bass heavy altering percieved sound. I do understand a multi purpose room though and compromises associated with such. Its best to measure and diagnose issues first. A good resource for acoustic information is realtraps.
http://realtraps.com/articles.htm


Also what kind of bass management you are using? Even though you have nice mains, the s2's will have better capability over their bandwidth.
 
#446 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23571784


I used to think 115db was needed at all frequencies (even more with bass management) at reference. Some posts by bossobass enlightened me to the fact its not in any current source material. Here is a post of his i saved from a year ago.


"There is no content encoded at 0dBFS at 3 Hz on any DVD, CD or BR that I'm aware of. That would use all of the headroom of the entire 3-120 Hz bandwidth requiring zero content anywhere but 3 Hz.


The specLab graphs show it and Maxmercy's calibrated peak hold graphs confirm it. Soundtrack mix desks have flashing red lights and many even auto mute if the headroom ceiling is breeched even by a fraction of a dB. It doesn't happen except in 2 confirmed instances in all of the movies reviewed to date (over 1,000 titles), and in those cases where there was digital clipping, the soundtrack was roundly panned for it.


105 (-10dBFS @ 3 Hz) is an exceptional situation and 107dB is extremely rare."


If the single digit content is being routed from the mains with bass management each of those channels is limited to 105. So even though it theoretical we could see high levels, there haven't been any confirmed cases of 115dB+ in the single digits that i know of.


i know and agree with what you are saying though. It takes a lot of displacement to reproduce the most demanding content to the single digits at reference in a typical room. Really just putting this out there as i thought some might find it interesting or informational.
I hear ya and agree. But, when I hear reference I relate it to the theoretical minimum...with bass management is in the 121db range iirc. Didn't go that route because I didn't want to rub it in...
 
#447 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23571899


I hear ya and agree. But, when I hear reference I relate it to the theoretical minimum...with bass management is in the 121db range iirc. Didn't go that route because I didn't want to rub it in...

Yes some movies can use up headroom quickly! I imagine the dual 21's and 15's got to flex a bit on skyfall. This is from max's post on it over at data-bass.


"MaxRMS 121.4 dB

LeqZ 95.6 dB

MaxPeak 127.6 dB

Dynamics 32 dB


What you see above is accurate. This film expects your bass-managed system to put out a continuous 121.4dB at one point if you are listening at reference. It is not for the faint at heart."
 
#448 ·
So I just ordered an S2 along with 5 speakers from Jeff, he really is an awesome guy to deal with. I had a quick question though. I have to buy an XLR -->RCA adapter plug to connect to my AVR, can anyone with a sub with one of these speakerpower plate amps please tell me which plug I need to pick up? Do I need a male or female XLR end?


As to the question brought up by Skyline, I'll let you know if it does as I'm in a similar sized room... ~900 cubed/sealed! I believe Jedirun has a single S2 in his ~1500 cubed room and remember seeing a graph of his space somewhere but can't seem to find it at the moment.... maybe he can chime in if he gets the chance.


I'll be sure to post my impressions along with a graph, everything should be here in about a month as long as everything stays on schedule. It's good in a way that it will take a few weeks, it'll give me time to decide which route I'll go as far as measuring equipment and EQ... as I have a Pio AVR which of course does nothing for the low end as I'm sure you all know. Thanks in advance!
 
#449 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23571140


Just to be clear, your saying your single S2 can hit 115db or more at 5hz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23571271

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23571283




Exactly. Unless his HT is in a concrete closet, I don't think it's possible.


What he probably meant was that he is flat to 5hz, and can hit reference levels. However, when he hits those reference levels, he's no longer flat to 5hz...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23571784


I used to think 115db was needed at all frequencies (even more with bass management) at reference. Some posts by bossobass enlightened me to the fact its not in any current source material. Here is a post of his i saved from a year ago.


"There is no content encoded at 0dBFS at 3 Hz on any DVD, CD or BR that I'm aware of. That would use all of the headroom of the entire 3-120 Hz bandwidth requiring zero content anywhere but 3 Hz.


The specLab graphs show it and Maxmercy's calibrated peak hold graphs confirm it. Soundtrack mix desks have flashing red lights and many even auto mute if the headroom ceiling is breeched even by a fraction of a dB. It doesn't happen except in 2 confirmed instances in all of the movies reviewed to date (over 1,000 titles), and in those cases where there was digital clipping, the soundtrack was roundly panned for it.


105 (-10dBFS @ 3 Hz) is an exceptional situation and 107dB is extremely rare."


If the single digit content is being routed from the mains with bass management each of those channels is limited to 105. So even though it theoretical we could see high levels, there haven't been any confirmed cases of 115dB+ in the single digits that i know of.


i know and agree with what you are saying though. It takes a lot of displacement to reproduce the most demanding content to the single digits at reference in a typical room. Really just putting this out there as i thought some might find it interesting or informational.


Guys,


I am not sure about the science involved here



Please see the frequency response at my MLP measured using a professionally calibrated UMM-6.




My understanding is that reference is 75 or 85 db. Is that incorrect?
 
#450 ·
Logic, as I understand it, you are correct in that when you calibrate your system everything is set to 75db. However as you approach "reference" at the MLP it can call for as much as 105db from your mains/surround and as much as 115db from your sub/subs at certain times. Although you have an excellent looking graph, showing you're darn flat to 5hz or so, as you approach reference you could run into compression, driver and amp limitations ect. if you don't have enough headroom. If you wanted to see if your sub/subs can truly play reference at 5hz, run a 115db sweep and see if your graph shows any of these anomalies. I believe what the above posters were saying was that it is extremely difficult to have a single sub, even the S2, be flat to well into the single digits without running into problems at reference. I don't mean to step on any ones toes, that is just how I understand it. BTW, that really is a nice looking graph, I hope mine looks half as good as yours when I'm all set up.
 
#451 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniHT  /t/1387617/jtr-captivator-s-sealed/420#post_23574200


Logic, as I understand it, you are correct in that when you calibrate your system everything is set to 75db. However as you approach "reference" at the MLP it can call for as much as 105db from your mains/surround and as much as 115db from your sub/subs at certain times. Although you have an excellent looking graph, showing you're darn flat to 5hz or so, as you approach reference you could run into compression, driver and amp limitations ect. if you don't have enough headroom. If you wanted to see if your sub/subs can truly play reference at 5hz, run a 115db sweep and see if your graph shows any of these anomalies. I believe what the above posters were saying was that it is extremely difficult to have a single sub, even the S2, be flat to well into the single digits without running into problems at reference. I don't mean to step on any ones toes, that is just how I understand it. BTW, that really is a nice looking graph, I hope mine looks half as good as yours when I'm all set up.

Interesting. I am out of country on a business trip this week so I will conduct this experiment upon my return and post my findings.
 
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