JTR Captivator S (Sealed) - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 535 Old 03-02-2012, 03:54 AM
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We seem to keep talking past each other. I am saying that there are pro audio speakers that will work well for home theater. This is a known fact in the DIY world and is not controversial.

It is also a known fact that many PA subs and drivers will give up low extension in exchange for higher sensitivity and SPL. So depending on which PA sub you're looking at, you may need a true subwoofer (in the technical sense) to cover the low range below 40hz.

However, you cannot cherry pick a few PA subs that lack extension (even if they are "popular" models), use them in isolation without LF sub support, and then conclude that there are no PA subs that will work for HT.

First, if you are going to choose a PA sub that is only capable of mid-bass, then you obviously need to pair it with a true subwoofer to cover the LF range. For example, many people are using Growler/Captivator combos in precisely such a setup for their HT, with massive output and great success.

Second, if you don't want to mess with the additional crossover, and prefer to just employ a single type of sub for LF, there are pro audio subs out there that will do this for you as well. Since we're talking about JTR products here, google "JTR Speakers" and you will find that their tag line is "Professional Audio Speakers". What do you think the "Pro" in Captivator Pro stands for? It stands for "Professional Audio". It puzzles me that people would say that "a PA sub isn't comparable to a high quality home theater sub" like the Cap Pro. I got news for you. That Cap Pro you like so much IS a PA sub. It says so right there in its name.
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post #122 of 535 Old 03-02-2012, 07:11 AM
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JTR Captivators do not fit the pa sub mold. pa subs traditionally have a response that falls off hard at 35 to 40 hz, they have traditionally weak surrounds and low excursion drivers. That is the kind of sub I don't believe has much place in a modern enthusiasts home theater.

Most of the threads I've read in the DIY forum and on the commercial side have the guys who have tried the combo setups eventually admitting that the capable singles are a better route for home use. That was my own experience as well in. trying to integrate the yahama pa subs with jamo d7 , svs pb13, and jtr cap pros.

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post #123 of 535 Old 03-02-2012, 04:56 PM
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Anyone have there S2's and can comment on them. Possibly pics?
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post #124 of 535 Old 03-02-2012, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehoeft View Post

Anyone have there S2's and can comment on them. Possibly pics?

These haven't been shipped yet from what I hear. A friend of mine (who claims he knows Jeff ) has 2 on order. I think the expectation is pretty high.
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post #125 of 535 Old 03-03-2012, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king roland View Post

we seem to keep talking past each other. I am saying that there are pro audio speakers that will work well for home theater. This is a known fact in the diy world and is not controversial.

It is also a known fact that many pa subs and drivers will give up low extension in exchange for higher sensitivity and spl. So depending on which pa sub you're looking at, you may need a true subwoofer (in the technical sense) to cover the low range below 40hz.

However, you cannot cherry pick a few pa subs that lack extension (even if they are "popular" models), use them in isolation without lf sub support, and then conclude that there are no pa subs that will work for ht.

First, if you are going to choose a pa sub that is only capable of mid-bass, then you obviously need to pair it with a true subwoofer to cover the lf range. For example, many people are using growler/captivator combos in precisely such a setup for their ht, with massive output and great success.

Second, if you don't want to mess with the additional crossover, and prefer to just employ a single type of sub for lf, there are pro audio subs out there that will do this for you as well. Since we're talking about jtr products here, google "jtr speakers" and you will find that their tag line is "professional audio speakers". What do you think the "pro" in captivator pro stands for? It stands for "professional audio". It puzzles me that people would say that "a pa sub isn't comparable to a high quality home theater sub" like the cap pro. I got news for you. That cap pro you like so much is a pa sub. It says so right there in its name.

+1
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post #126 of 535 Old 03-03-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehoeft View Post

Anyone have there S2's and can comment on them. Possibly pics?

I have two on order. Should be here this week or the next. Jeff is waiting on drivers. I'll definitely post some pics and opinions when I get them. They should be pretty solid performers. Damn, the wait is tough.
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post #127 of 535 Old 03-03-2012, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king roland View Post

We seem to keep talking past each other. I am saying that there are pro audio speakers that will work well for home theater. This is a known fact in the DIY world and is not controversial.

It is also a known fact that many PA subs and drivers will give up low extension in exchange for higher sensitivity and SPL. So depending on which PA sub you're looking at, you may need a true subwoofer (in the technical sense) to cover the low range below 40hz.

However, you cannot cherry pick a few PA subs that lack extension (even if they are "popular" models), use them in isolation without LF sub support, and then conclude that there are no PA subs that will work for HT.

First, if you are going to choose a PA sub that is only capable of mid-bass, then you obviously need to pair it with a true subwoofer to cover the LF range. For example, many people are using Growler/Captivator combos in precisely such a setup for their HT, with massive output and great success.

Second, if you don't want to mess with the additional crossover, and prefer to just employ a single type of sub for LF, there are pro audio subs out there that will do this for you as well. Since we're talking about JTR products here, google "JTR Speakers" and you will find that their tag line is "Professional Audio Speakers". What do you think the "Pro" in Captivator Pro stands for? It stands for "Professional Audio". It puzzles me that people would say that "a PA sub isn't comparable to a high quality home theater sub" like the Cap Pro. I got news for you. That Cap Pro you like so much IS a PA sub. It says so right there in its name.

It's most likely because you keep changing your position. First it was (paraphrased) "surely not possible for you to know if the Captivator products beat a PA sub without testing." Then it was "well, there's been no testing so Archaea can't know or even guess."

Then I clarified that my expectation of these pre-built subs is only in the context of HT usage specifically, with THD limits, not past 80hz, etc., because that is what the product in this thread is specifically designed for (and is the usage comparison originally made).

Then you changed your argument and said "they're fine for 40hz on up, with a different, real sub used below that" and you, out of the blue, cherrypicked a pro driver used in DIY for similar applications, while disregarding my bandwidth restrictions to HT range that a person would use in comparison of HT subs, THD limits, inflated specs by the MFGs, etc.

Then I noted that you'd changed the goalposts and that you ignored the reiteration that my comment was limited to the comparison originally made: HT bandwidth use, pre-built HT subs compared only to pre-built PA "subs," THD limited, etc.

Now you've again said DIY provides a counterpoint to my argument, but the discussion was never about DIY. Then you claim that people are doing a combo of PA sub and HT sub, but that's entirely different than the original comparison and, again, was never part of the comparison. Then you change my argument and say I shouldn't cherrypick a few PA subs in a comparison without HT sub support for the lower octaves. I'm just baffled, because I never did this; I only ever responded about the comparisons made by dlfromcanada. You're the one who changed it... Then you veer off subject again into a semantics argument about "pro audio" kit and crossovers for blending a HT sub and a PA sub. Why? I know a fair bit about it and I own a JTR product, so you don't have to pedantically educate me...

The discussion and comparison originally made is about THD-limited output in the normal HT bandwidth range from pre-built HT subs vs. a few mentioned PA subs, nothing else. If you want to argue that there are occasionally PA subs used in conjunction with HT subs in a scenario that might provide a good solution for somebody, that's fine and I don't think anybody here is going to argue with you. If you want to argue that some pro audio drivers can be used in specific DIY applications with good results in the HT bandwidth, go ahead. Again, I don't think anyone is going to argue with you. But those things are significantly outside the scope of the comparisons originally made by dlfromcanada and me, and are never things I have or would argue. Especially not in this product thread, where they're quite off topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatsow View Post

I have two on order. Should be here this week or the next. Jeff is waiting on drivers. I'll definitely post some pics and opinions when I get them. They should be pretty solid performers. Damn, the wait is tough.

That's awesome! Congrats!
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post #128 of 535 Old 03-12-2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Where are you seeing a pic of the S2? I looked on JTR's forum but no joy. I may be just having one of those days though. Thanks.

In case anybody missed it, Jeff posted these up at the JTR forum today.





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post #129 of 535 Old 03-12-2012, 09:14 PM
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I saw those today there... I want two!!!!
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post #130 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

In case anybody missed it, Jeff posted these up at the JTR forum today.





It might be hard to slip a couple of these past the wife without her noticing.

Dang ...

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post #131 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 08:58 AM
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post #132 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 09:02 AM
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Looks like a big arsh center channel.
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post #133 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 09:13 AM
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Speaker Porn!!
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post #134 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

Looks like a big arsh center channel.

Would make a good center channel stand ... say right between two OS's

Hummm ...

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post #135 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 09:31 AM
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Would make a good center channel stand ... say right between two OS's

Hummm ...

Oh come on now. This would probably be a good time for you stop looking at these forums.

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post #136 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 09:35 AM
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Oh come on now. This would probably be a good time for you stop looking at these forums.

Somebody call a doctor ...

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post #137 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 09:47 AM
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Put Jeff's double 18" up against the superb, but un-godly over priced Procella double 18", here. The Procella P18, is superbly made, superb amplification w/Powersoft (some of the finest, most sophisticated amplification in the world), ... but damn, at $8999 for a 2x700watt 2x18", they're certainly proud of it.

Then again, this is Jeff's model. Enormous bang for the buck via sheer headroom, robust cabinetry, quality drivers well implemented.

Damn, behind a baffle wall, on in the middle of the room, I suspect that bad boy will enjoy huge success. That's the one he should send to Josh......

Congrats Jeff, once again, good lookin' out...

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post #138 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 10:22 AM
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Cap S2 - Dimensions are 40" x 21" x 16.25" (not included feet or grill). That's tiny.
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post #139 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

Cap S2 - Dimensions are 40" x 21" x 16.25" (not included feet or grill). That's tiny.

Sure is. I wonder what the dimensions would be if he went with a dual opposed design? 20" x 21" x upper 20"s deep??
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post #140 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 12:04 PM
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Sure is. I wonder what the dimensions would be if he went with a dual opposed design? 20" x 21" x upper 20"s deep??

It still needs the same internal volume.
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post #141 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

Cap S2 - Dimensions are 40" x 21" x 16.25" (not included feet or grill). That's tiny.

190 lbs ain't tiny ....

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post #142 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

It still needs the same internal volume.

Yeah, I know just throwing a guess out there. Looks like if it were 20 tall and 21 wide it would be 32 and a smidge deep so I wasn't too far off with the upper 20 something depth guess.

Also, it looks like it is real close in internal volume to a regular Cap.

Let me know if I'm way off here, math was never a strong suit.
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post #143 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 04:11 PM
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As long as you have a stable platform below (spike inserts or something), put them verticle and you'd take up no more square footage than a standard Capitvator S. Double the bass in the same space!!
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post #144 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 04:42 PM
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Too small to stand up though.
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post #145 of 535 Old 03-13-2012, 05:28 PM
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I think I really need to go to Jeff's open house so I can hear these things. I keep going back and forth of what I wanna do for subs and I think these S2's are what I've been waiting for
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post #146 of 535 Old 03-14-2012, 04:25 AM
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That dual 18 setup is a beast. Such a small box too considering whats in it. Would that be stable enough to stand it up?
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post #147 of 535 Old 03-14-2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slammin86 View Post

That dual 18 setup is a beast. Such a small box too considering whats in it. Would that be stable enough to stand it up?

No reason it it couldn't be used vertically. Alot would depend on what surface you are sitting it on (thick carpet, wood floor, thin carpet over concrete etc....). You would be well advised to install a spike kit or use adjustable outriggers of some sort.
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post #148 of 535 Old 03-14-2012, 12:23 PM
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I actually made it 40" wide just incase anyone uses it as a center stand for the Triple 12(which is 40" wide on its side).

Thank you to all those who are waiting on drivers. The latest is middle of next week. My fingers are crossed.
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post #149 of 535 Old 03-14-2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

I actually made it 40" wide just incase anyone uses it as a center stand for the Triple 12(which is 40" wide on its side).

Sweet,... that's a nice visual

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post #150 of 535 Old 03-14-2012, 04:50 PM
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Man o Man thats a sweet looking sub!!!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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