Rythmik FV12 vs. HSU VTF-3 MK4 - Page 2 - AVS Forum

AVS Forum > Audio > Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Rythmik FV12 vs. HSU VTF-3 MK4

Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

FCAMARO24's Avatar FCAMARO24
10:24 PM Liked: 10
post #31 of 50
01-21-2012 | Posts: 50
Joined: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny blanko View Post

Yes but is this deep bass you are now hearing the result of extended fundamental response or higher harmonic distortion that appears to make it sound lower ??

It was someone else that said it was the so called 'servo' that made the speaker better and all I said well lets see how good the servo really is. A five minute test with a sound card, spectra plus software (30 day free trial) and a good quality mic is all that is needed

Call me a troll if you want but don't let the hype stand in the way of good science

All that is needed is a good set of ears! and a few movies and music tracks lol. To the OP I havent heard the hsu, but I have heard the fv-12 in 2 different set ups and plenty of different genres of music and movies and both sounded great (to me), different in each set up but still nice and it is a beast in size and sound, its bass is very nice at this price point 499 To put it simple for a sub it has a nice spl level (to be expected from a ported sub) and still remains tight and musical but can dig when called upon. It isnt boomy at all drums sound very tight and accurate ( i have been to 4 rock concerts the past 8 months) Tdercole has run that fv-12 into the dirt with different gain, damping and fq settings and it still sounded great. If it was better looking and or smaller I would own this in a heart beat 2 things that have nothing to with audio but In my front room I prefer looks to awesome bass specially while I am moving alot.
Benny does science tell you if your subs sounds good? (Dont answer this lol )
benny blanko's Avatar benny blanko
05:59 PM Liked: 10
post #32 of 50
01-23-2012 | Posts: 73
Joined: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

It would also have to be outside away from obstructions. You also mention that you need the non-servo counterpart. Even with that, you still can't compare the measurements to someone else's reliably. Why are you asking below the port tuning for THD measurements? Why not above the port tuning? Even if it is above port tuning, why 20 Hz instead of 80 Hz where THD matters more? Why does servo's THD reduction only matter at maximum SPL? Don't the Velodynes have a non-defeatable limiter?

I only mention THD since it is the only distortion you bring up. I guess it has to deal with loop gain. There are also theoretical and real world performances. I see this all the time with EMG, CSA, GABA, accounting for moment arms even when trying to linearize the movements, and the list goes on. Even with controlling the variables the best we are able to and with all this science, our measured results are still off our calculated theoretical results. Last question, how does this benefit the OP?

Most of what I said refers to a sealed box servo system which is the only type that is practical. It is the said vendor that claims to have a 'vented box servo sub' and claims a response down to 14Hz. His words not mine !! If the servo works down to 14Hz it only makes sense to test the distortion at 15Hz. I said in a previous post to use at least two frequencies to do distortion tests just in case one of the frequencies coincides with the vent frequency and makes the results look good. This is indeed what hometheater and HiFi does.

With regards to the OP the relevance is the said vendor of the servo sub and its supporters like to distinguish it from all of the other "non servo" subs because of this so called 'servo' capability. It's only reasonable to see how good this servo capability is compared to other subs and like I said a good test for a servo sub is its distortion reduction capability at low frequencies.

The point of implementing a servo in a loudspeaker is to linearize its performance and hence reduce distortion. As well, flatten the frequency response and extend the bandwidth and lastly to desensitize the system to changes in driver parameters etc.
cschang's Avatar cschang
07:16 PM Liked: 82
post #33 of 50
01-23-2012 | Posts: 14,783
Joined: Mar 2003
benny....I see you are back.

You didn't address this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...2&postcount=30
benclement11's Avatar benclement11
07:33 PM Liked: 17
post #34 of 50
01-23-2012 | Posts: 1,295
Joined: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny blanko View Post

Most of what I said refers to a sealed box servo system which is the only type that is practical. It is the said vendor that claims to have a 'vented box servo sub' and claims a response down to 14Hz. His words not mine !! If the servo works down to 14Hz it only makes sense to test the distortion at 15Hz. I said in a previous post to use at least two frequencies to do distortion tests just in case one of the frequencies coincides with the vent frequency and makes the results look good. This is indeed what hometheater and HiFi does.

With regards to the OP the relevance is the said vendor of the servo sub and its supporters like to distinguish it from all of the other "non servo" subs because of this so called 'servo' capability. It's only reasonable to see how good this servo capability is compared to other subs and like I said a good test for a servo sub is its distortion reduction capability at low frequencies.

The point of implementing a servo in a loudspeaker is to linearize its performance and hence reduce distortion. As well, flatten the frequency response and extend the bandwidth and lastly to desensitize the system to changes in driver parameters etc.


How did the FV15HP fair against subs that costs more than it? SVS PB13 Ultra and the Velodyne DD18+.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems


I don't think any of us Rythmik owners actually believe that servo makes something inherently better...so I'm not sure what your argument is. If servo was the end all be all...everyone would use it. It's a design...just like dual opposed or whatever. Benny Blanko... I do not respect anyone who talks trash behind a screen name. Put your real name to your comments and you'd at least have a little more respect. It's soooo easy to spout off when no one knows who you are. Look me up on Facebook...you can find anything out you want about me. I may not know everything, but at least I'm transparent... for better or worse.


And why so much hate for Rythmik? Brian Ding is an incredibly nice guy and has never been out of line. He takes the time to participate in this forum and respond to people like you whom he owes absolutely NOTHING. He owes you ZERO. And yet he will come on here and participate. There are only a few owners that do this and they don't really have to. How often do you see the owners of SVS, HSU, EPIK, Velodyne, Paradigm and on and on in these threads. Brian did not start Rythmik to get rich. It was a hobby that turned into something pretty good, just like a lot of these independents. So who do you think YOU are to come on AVS behind the anonymity of a screen name and trash people. That's a joke.
Nuance's Avatar Nuance
08:37 PM Liked: 59
post #35 of 50
01-23-2012 | Posts: 11,584
Joined: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by benclement11 View Post

How did the FV15HP fair against subs that costs more than it? SVS PB13 Ultra and the Velodyne DD18+.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems

That's the subwoofer I'd buy if I had to start over from scratch. What a monster for the money!
benny blanko's Avatar benny blanko
05:27 AM Liked: 10
post #36 of 50
01-24-2012 | Posts: 73
Joined: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

benny...have you read this?
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...p-measurements



I'm sure you will have some sort of rebuttal.

Yes I have the rebuttal now

So the advantage of the servo is ??


pokekevin's Avatar pokekevin
08:55 AM Liked: 101
post #37 of 50
01-24-2012 | Posts: 5,071
Joined: Jun 2011
Ignore button works well.
markrubin's Avatar markrubin
10:35 AM Liked: 480
post #38 of 50
01-24-2012 | Posts: 23,099
Joined: May 2001
posts deleted

please stick to technical info in your posts, and use the ignore button if you want

but don't respond to or quote a problematic post: just report it
cschang's Avatar cschang
11:18 AM Liked: 82
post #39 of 50
01-24-2012 | Posts: 14,783
Joined: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny blanko View Post

Yes I have the rebuttal now

So the advantage of the servo is ??

That's not a rebuttal.

You are showing a different sub with lower overall max SPL and costs $800 more.

Not a good comparison.
its phillip's Avatar its phillip
12:00 PM Liked: 59
post #40 of 50
01-24-2012 | Posts: 766
Joined: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny blanko View Post

Maximum SPL test at 15Hz is a good test for any subwoofer. For a vented box two frequencies should be used just in case one coincides with the vent frequency and makes the results look more impressive.

For a sealed box it pushes the diaphragm to near maximum displacement whilst showing up distortion produced by suspension, box and motor non linearities. For a sealed box servo speaker it is also a good test for the effectiveness of the servo in reducing distortion. I'm not affiliated with Velodyne nor do I own their gear but I thought this was a pretty impressive result from the recent review in HomeTheater and Hi Fi.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwo...r.html?start=3


I'd rather take a look at Ricci/AH's review of the sub:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...-drive-plus-18
cschang's Avatar cschang
12:46 PM Liked: 82
post #41 of 50
01-24-2012 | Posts: 14,783
Joined: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by its phillip View Post

I'd rather take a look at Ricci/AH's review of the sub:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...-drive-plus-18

More of Ricci's test of the DD18+ here:
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=64&mset=68
FCAMARO24's Avatar FCAMARO24
06:44 PM Liked: 10
post #42 of 50
02-07-2012 | Posts: 50
Joined: Dec 2011
any more inputs on these 2?
shadyJ's Avatar shadyJ
08:38 PM Liked: 625
post #43 of 50
02-07-2012 | Posts: 7,122
Joined: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCAMARO24 View Post

any more inputs on these 2?

hi fcamaro, I spent much of the day comparing these subs (as much as my ears could take), but I mostly focused on the FV12 and Outlaw LFM-1 EX. I intend to do a more detailed write-up of my conclusions after some more listening and measurements, but right now I would say the VTF3 offers deeper bass and a bit more headroom, but you are paying a premium for that extra oomph. The FV12 is a solid sub, and a terrific value for $500, and actually has usable bass down to 20 hz. Both are great subs and you would not regret purchasing either one. If you can wait a week or so, I am going to make a more thorough post about my experiences with these subs.
tdercole's Avatar tdercole
06:09 PM Liked: 10
post #44 of 50
02-12-2012 | Posts: 22
Joined: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

hi fcamaro, I spent much of the day comparing these subs (as much as my ears could take), but I mostly focused on the FV12 and Outlaw LFM-1 EX. I intend to do a more detailed write-up of my conclusions after some more listening and measurements, but right now I would say the VTF3 offers deeper bass and a bit more headroom, but you are paying a premium for that extra oomph. The FV12 is a solid sub, and a terrific value for $500, and actually has usable bass down to 20 hz. Both are great subs and you would not regret purchasing either one. If you can wait a week or so, I am going to make a more thorough post about my experiences with these subs.

Hi ShadyJ, I would love to hear a detailed comparison. If both the rythmik and outlaw can be had for 500 bucks mabye one sub may perform better in one area that someone may prefer. I do love my sub though
MikeBiker's Avatar MikeBiker
08:28 PM Liked: 13
post #45 of 50
02-12-2012 | Posts: 1,023
Joined: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

That's the subwoofer I'd buy if I had to start over from scratch. What a monster for the money!

I just bought a Rythmik FV15. I decided that the extra 2 dB for the Hp version were not worth the extra $ to me. I was close to deciding on the SVS PB-12Plus as an alternative. Either would have made me happy.\\
Hawaiiancerveza's Avatar Hawaiiancerveza
04:27 PM Liked: 10
post #46 of 50
09-21-2012 | Posts: 69
Joined: Jul 2012
Man I wish the Rythmik F12 was still only $500 something. Or is this speaking about the ported F12?
jw00dy's Avatar jw00dy
05:17 PM Liked: 10
post #47 of 50
09-21-2012 | Posts: 285
Joined: Nov 2010
The ported FV12!
Hawaiiancerveza's Avatar Hawaiiancerveza
07:20 PM Liked: 10
post #48 of 50
09-23-2012 | Posts: 69
Joined: Jul 2012
Ya I figured. I think I may go for the F12
pronghorn/az's Avatar pronghorn/az
09:53 PM Liked: 17
post #49 of 50
09-23-2012 | Posts: 1,343
Joined: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiiancerveza View Post

Ya I figured. I think I may go for the F12

Well I hate to join this club, but the F15 is only $100. more.

Jeff
Hawaiiancerveza's Avatar Hawaiiancerveza
10:25 PM Liked: 10
post #50 of 50
09-23-2012 | Posts: 69
Joined: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post

Well I hate to join this club, but the F15 is only $100. more.
Jeff

How much more does it weigh? I live in hawaii... kind of expensive to ship here.
Tags: Hsu Vtf2 Mk4

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