Klipsch RW-12D Omnimic Frequency Response Graphs - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 45 Old 01-28-2012, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently am borrowing a pair of Klipsch RW-12D subs from my brother as we used the pair for a room reference during the 2012 KC Blind Subwoofer Meet linked in my signature. I figure as long as I have them available I'll grab some frequency response graphs to show just what the native EQ DSP settings do on these subs. I turned off all external EQ in my Onkyo TX-NR 1007 receiver (no Audyssey, no dynamic eq, mains crossover set to 100hz, sub LFE set to 120hz) and just measured the pair of Klipsch RW-12D sub's frequency response in my 3500 cubic foot room using my Omnimic and their three native EQ settings. Distance calibrations in the receiver were accurately set. The following frequency response graphs are taken with no smoothing but averaged over 10 captures each from my main listening position (8-10 foot away from the subwoofers). The sub placement for these measurements is one on each side of my projector screen facing outward toward the outside room walls. (this configuration is the best/flattest position I've found in my room) Here are how the subs measured per Klipsch DSP EQ setting.

Note: SPL interval is 2dB

Flat


Punch


Depth


All three EQ overlays (still 2dB spacing):


And the same overlays again using the more common 5dB spacing on y axis


It appears, at least in my room, that Depth is the flattest Klipsch DSP EQ setting. I would probably recommend that as a starting place for most Klipsch RW-12D owners. I also noticed the quick settings music and movies mean nothing in and by themselves - you can save or change them to be anything including volume levels, LFE crossovers settings and native EQ setting. I don't know if they come from the factory configured one way or the other, because I didn't pull the subs new out of the box, but in messing with these used subs I determined that only the EQ setting (flat, punch, depth) matters until you save it one way or the other as music or movies. If all other EQ settings are the same, then the movie and music toggle does absolutely nothing to frequency responses or spl levels. Perhaps Music could be saved as "punch" and Movies saved as "depth" with the other settings (volume levels and LFE 'crossover') varying per individual's subjective preference.

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post #2 of 45 Old 01-29-2012, 06:52 AM
 
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with newegg dumping these the last few months I can see your post as super super helpful for a bunch of people trying to dial in their new toy!
Even though I don't own one I would like to thank you for taking the time to post these graphs as I am sure they will come in handy for a LOT of people!
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post #3 of 45 Old 01-29-2012, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamerlover View Post

with newegg dumping these the last few months I can see your post as super super helpful for a bunch of people trying to dial in their new toy!
Even though I don't own one I would like to thank you for taking the time to post these graphs as I am sure they will come in handy for a LOT of people!

+1. I don't own this and I'm not in the market but it's super-cool that you've put this together.

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post #4 of 45 Old 01-29-2012, 08:09 AM
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Thanks for the graphs, the Klipsch frequency response is much better than I expected after reading so much about it on these very forums.
Does it chuff and creak and groan as has been widely stated around here ??
Or is it a good product for the current street price ??

Regards,
Charlie

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post #5 of 45 Old 01-29-2012, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd say good to great product for $300 to $350 based on my experience, but at $500 - $700 per unit I'd look elsewhere.

It does make 'plastic'ky' creaking noises when pushed hard at the lowest hz. It does sound 'boomier' than many/most of the more expensive sub options I've heard and compared over the last year... (after attending 3 sub meets and owning and auditioning dozens of sub pairs in the last year or two).

---But at the $300-$350 purchase price you can typically find them at -- I have no hesitation recommending these subs to someone budget conscious.

That said...I'm very glad I own my Captivator Pro pair and think they are very much worth the significantly higher price tag - (as are many of the other top shelf subwoofers praised on this forum - they are worth the cost of entry in my experience). I'm stating the obvious here but these are no where near the sound quality class of the typical $1000 subwoofers recommended on this forum.

These subs won't put a forced grin on your face, but they will make movie watching enjoyable! My wife and I watched a couple episodes of the HBO WW2 series "The Pacific" and the experience was enjoyable on these Klipsch subs. And they possess enough authority that on more than one occassion in playing with them last night my wife told me to TURN IT DOWN.

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post #6 of 45 Old 01-29-2012, 09:18 AM
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They won't crack the grout, but the sale price seems solid.
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post #7 of 45 Old 01-29-2012, 10:55 AM
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Thanks for this thread

HT~
PANASONIC TC-P50ST60, OPPO BDP-103D, ONKYO TX-NR818, EMOTIVA XDA-2, PANAMAX MR4000, KLIPSCH RF-62's, RC-62, RS-52's, PSA TRIAX
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post #8 of 45 Old 01-29-2012, 07:33 PM
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Thanks.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #9 of 45 Old 01-29-2012, 08:02 PM
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No problem

HT~
PANASONIC TC-P50ST60, OPPO BDP-103D, ONKYO TX-NR818, EMOTIVA XDA-2, PANAMAX MR4000, KLIPSCH RF-62's, RC-62, RS-52's, PSA TRIAX
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post #10 of 45 Old 02-01-2012, 12:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I did the same testing on a BIC F12 and a couple of BIC V1220 subs in my room tonight.

If you bought the Klipsch and were half worried the BICs might be as good for less money??!! They aren't. They are cheaper, but the Klipsch has a significantly stronger frequency response which is quite noticable in listening even with music. The deepest bass is just completely missing on the BIC products. The BIC's are good for the money, as are the Klipsch, but I'd prefer the Klipsch pretty strongly if you can swing the extra coin. That isn't to say the BIC products aren't worth their entry price. I think they are, but they are outclassed by the Klipsch.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1391243

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post #11 of 45 Old 02-01-2012, 07:31 AM
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One feature I wasnt keen on at first, but have since grown to love is the digital adjustments and presets. I have a pair so it allows me to precisely match the tuning of the two subs. On my old sub i had used a sharpie marker to mark my gain and crossover settings for optimal music vs movie listening. I turn off the crossover on the sub for movies and let my AVR do the filtering, but for music I run my AVR in bypass mode which runs my mains full bandwidth and sends bass below 200 hz to the sub out. With just a few button pushes on the Klipsch subs to the music preset, everything is back in order without having to get behind the sub with a flashlight.
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post #12 of 45 Old 02-01-2012, 01:18 PM
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thank you for this! will be very helpful as I play around with my new Klipsch.
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post #13 of 45 Old 02-01-2012, 02:08 PM
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Thanks for this.. This will give me something to mill over while I wait for UPS to bring me another sub. Hopefully they don't drag this one behind the truck all the way here so it is in better condition than the first.

Honestly, in the week I had it playing the biggest impact it made on me was to get me thinking about building a DIY unit that will knock the paint off the walls. For what it is and what they're selling them for, the RW-12D is a great value indeed. UPS still sucks though... lol
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post #14 of 45 Old 02-01-2012, 05:47 PM
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I'm pretty impressed by these graphs For a $300 sub (when you can find it on sale), the 12D looks good. Thanks Archaea for doing these.

John
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post #15 of 45 Old 02-02-2012, 08:06 AM
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I have 2 of these subs (bought from newegg during the sales) and have had them for about 4 or 5 months. I have them in a small room (12x12x10) and I really enjoy these things for what they are. They are in my 2nd system...I have 2 Rythmiks in my other setup.

I love the fact that you can set your own music and movie presets. And my Harmony One will switch them between my music and movie settings depending on what Activity I select on the Harmony. I can adjust the gain with the Harmony as well or change pretty much any setting on it. My receiver in that room has MultEQ XT and I am using an Antimode and I am very very happy with these. No they are no Rythmik, but for the price of entry, they are great.

Thanks for putting this information together Archaea...

Too many toys
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post #16 of 45 Old 02-02-2012, 09:58 PM
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Not even 100 db's. Oh well. I would get the PA150 and call it a day for the same price point.

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post #17 of 45 Old 02-03-2012, 02:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Shift the fr numbers are not a max spl graph. Its just set arbitrarily above room noise floor. I don't know what max spl is, but it is much higher than what you see in that chart.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #18 of 45 Old 02-03-2012, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Shift the fr numbers are not a max spl graph. Its just set arbitrarily above room noise floor. I don't know what max spl is, but it is much higher than what you see in that chart.

Oh ok, good to know or I thought something was wrong. I thought it was odd that it was not going over 100 dbs, which I think should of

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post #19 of 45 Old 02-03-2012, 12:29 PM
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Awesome, thanks for the graph. I have two in a room about half the size (10 x 7 x 16) and they sound great for what they are. The digital controller along with the fact that they can be added to the Logitech Harmony remotes is a huge plus. I know there are better subs out there but for those wanting to stay on the "cheaper" side, it's hard to beat these for 300-400 imo.

Because great sound fills the room, shakes the house, breaks hearts, stirs souls, and always will
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post #20 of 45 Old 02-03-2012, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift View Post

Oh ok, good to know or I thought something was wrong. I thought it was odd that it was not going over 100 dbs, which I think should of

Just to re-iterate what Archaea said, If you look at his thread for the v1220, the graphs are similar in dB level, however, when cranking it, most music was hitting 100-105 dB with a top end of 121 dB

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post #21 of 45 Old 02-09-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mde8965 View Post

I love the fact that you can set your own music and movie presets. And my Harmony One will switch them between my music and movie settings depending on what Activity I select on the Harmony. I can adjust the gain with the Harmony as well or change pretty much any setting on it.

Good call on the Harmony idea, thanks!
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post #22 of 45 Old 03-03-2012, 01:58 AM
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I just joined this forum because I wasn't sure on how to set up my RW-12D Thanks for helping me out. I have a Denon AVR-3808CI with Klipsch Quintet surround speakers and I just bought the RW-12D from Newegg looks like I wasn't the only one. My amp went out on my Klipsch 10" sub and for $300 it was an offer I couldn't refuse. Any tip's on my setup would be greatly appreciated. I have everything running through my Denon, my PC (using my video card for my sound card), Cable, Playstation3, even my phone. I have a 55" LG 1080P truemotion TV for my monitor.Everythings connected via HDMI or optical Look's like my next purchase will be a Harmony remote.Thanks again
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post #23 of 45 Old 03-23-2012, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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post #24 of 45 Old 04-29-2012, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is some further discussion on my room measurements with this sub.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1394073

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #25 of 45 Old 04-29-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I currently am borrowing a pair of Klipsch RW-12D subs from my brother as we used the pair for a room reference during the 2012 KC Blind Subwoofer Meet linked in my signature. I figure as long as I have them available I'll grab some frequency response graphs to show just what the native EQ DSP settings do on these subs. I turned off all external EQ in my Onkyo TX-NR 1007 receiver (no Audyssey, no dynamic eq, mains crossover set to 100hz, sub LFE set to 120hz) and just measured the pair of Klipsch RW-12D sub's frequency response in my 3500 cubic foot room using my Omnimic and their three native EQ settings. Distance calibrations in the receiver were accurately set. The following frequency response graphs are taken with no smoothing but averaged over 10 captures each from my main listening position (8-10 foot away from the subwoofers). The sub placement for these measurements is one on each side of my projector screen facing outward toward the outside room walls. (this configuration is the best/flattest position I've found in my room) Here are how the subs measured per Klipsch DSP EQ setting.

Note: SPL interval is 2dB



It appears, at least in my room, that is the flattest Klipsch DSP EQ setting. I would probably recommend that as a starting place for most Klipsch RW-12D owners. I also noticed the quick settings and mean nothing in and by themselves - you can save or change them to be anything including volume levels, LFE crossovers settings and native EQ setting. I don't know if they come from the factory configured one way or the other, because I didn't pull the subs new out of the box, but in messing with these used subs I determined that only the EQ setting (flat, punch, depth) matters until you save it one way or the other as. If all other EQ settings are the same, then the movie and music toggle does absolutely nothing to frequency responses or spl levels. Perhaps Music could be saved as "punch" and Movies saved as "depth" with the other settings (volume levels and LFE 'crossover') varying per individual's subjective preference.

At first blush it seems to me that each setting doesn't change the response but just changes the subs gain across the band. Is that how you read it?
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post #26 of 45 Old 04-29-2012, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Between Punch and Flat - perhaps yes
Between Depth and Punch - no

IE If you put an imaginary pivot point on the center of each line on the x axis (a bit under 45hz where green and red interesect) for depth and punch settings their respsective frequency responses are tilted opposite.

Depth brings up the lower end and drops the higher end FR
Punch drops the lower end and brings up the higher end FR

The dfiferences are slight - but they are there -- compare 30hz and 60hz to see what I mean between the two settings. You'll see the green and red lines have swapped places.



yes - flat dsp setting just seems to lower the gain a little bit in comparison to punch. - though the difference is a bit more prounounced at 70hz than it is at 25 or 30 hz even between these two more similar settings. Like 5dB difference vs. 2 or 3dB difference. So all settings are somewhat unique - though the difference between a couple dB's is somewhat arbitrary to our ears.

For these comparisons no EQ was used except the subwoofers front panels Punch, Depth, and Flat settings, and no volume changes made to the source signal from the AVR.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #27 of 45 Old 07-23-2012, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
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On sale again at newegg for $299 shipped.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #28 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

On sale again at newegg for $299 shipped.

Is this still the best sub you can buy for $300 ! Would supercub III for $400 be better ? I don't need very high volume levels and its a small room..
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post #29 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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It remains the best sub I know of for the price -- when on sale for $300.

small room and low volumes = fine.


You could consider a Jamo Sub 650 currently on sale for $300 at vanns - but there isn't much in the way of reviews, and Jim Wilson who bought one appears to possibly have got a defective unit.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/549645163/jamo-sub-650?s_c=site_search


A friend of mine in KC bought one, and I should hopefully have some measurements of the Jamo unit in the next couple months to compare with. As far as cost - the Jamo plate amp at 650 watts amost would almost make up the $300 cost by itself if you needed to buy the amp seperately from parts express so the sale price is more than reasonable. But the Klipsch is vetted as a good preformer at a price point much higher than $300, and the Jamo is mostly unvetted.

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post #30 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 08:34 AM
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I've been on the fence about the Klipsch RW-12d, did you hear any port noise at any time?

The Jamo SUB 650 looks like the speaker cone is paper and the surround is foam, which in my book is a deal breaker.
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