BIC V1220 and BIC F12 Omnimic Frequency Response Graphs - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 01-31-2012, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,589
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 471
A friend of mine purchased 3 BIC subwoofers, a F12 about a year ago, and a pair of V1220's recently in the crazy low priced $97 each walmart.com deal. The subs were picked up tonight from the local wal-mart and we set them up in my room and proceeded to take some frequency response graphs.

This is kind of a sister project to the recent thread where I measured a pair of Klipsch RW-12D
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1390563

For this set of measurements - everything was setup the exact same in the as for the Klipsch tests. I turned off all external EQ in my Onkyo TX-NR 1007 receiver (no Audyssey, no Dynamic EQ, mains crossover set to 100hz, sub LFE set to 120hz) and just measured:
1) the BIC F12 by itself
2) a single BIC V1220 by itself
3) a pair of BIC V1220 subs
4) a F12 and a V1220 together
5) and finally all three subs together.

These frequency response graphs were captured in my 3500 cubic foot room using Omnimic. Distance calibrations in the receiver were accurately set. The frequency response graphs were all taken with no smoothing but averaged over 10 captures each from my main listening position. Here are some pictures of my room to get an idea of the setup.
http://s1191.photobucket.com/albums/...20Room%202011/
The sub placement for these measurements is as follows:
1) F12 - Left side of projector screen with driver facing outside wall
2) V1220 - Left side of projector screen with driver facing down (standard config) and port facing outside wall
3) Dual V1220 - Both on outside of projector screen with ports facing outside walls
4) F12 on left side as in configuration 1 and V1220 on right side as in config 3
5) Dual V1220 as in config 3 sharing y split single sub1 output and F12 near center for room with driver facing forward on sub 2 output.

The placement chosen is the best/flattest position I've found in my room for duals.

Note: SPL interval is 2dB on every chart except the last one. (5dB intervals on Y axis is more common and makes the frequency response look flatter, but is harder to determine actual differences with precision)


BIC F12



BIC V1220



single BIC F12 vs. single BIC V1220 - Frequency responses compared



BIC V1220 pair



single BIC F12 and single BIC V1220



BIC F12 and BIC V1220 pair



BIC V1220 pair vs. Klipsch RW-12D pair



BIC V1220 pair vs. Klipsch RW-12D pair with more common 5dB y axis spacing
zagnutty likes this.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 02-01-2012, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,589
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 471
I've listened to the V1220's on a few occasssions now, at my house and at KCNitro's house. I think they are decent subs for the money but between the V1220 and the BIC F12 I'd recommend the BIC F12. It has slightly more spl below 30hz, it has a much beefier looking driver, seems more capable overall (a bit higher limits), and in my opinion, takes pride in a slightly better looking cabinet. However, I think the subwoofers are close enough that if you get a really good price on one vs. the other you shouldn't fret too much. KCNitro07 got them for $100 each, new from Wal-Mart on closeout -- at that price they are really a bargain. One of KCNitro's V1220 subs didn't make any sound out of the box, but the amp was turned on. I advised him to take out the driver and make sure all the wires were connected. That advice worked because we found one of the leads on the driver was not attached. In the process we got some pictures of the driver, amp, and cabinet. When we put it back together everything worked normally. The driver on the V1220 was more impressive than I figured it would be given it's pricepoint. Here are a few pictures -





"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 02-01-2012, 09:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
crazyrob425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,210
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 155
Thanks for taking the time to measure these popular budget subwoofers!
crazyrob425 is offline  
post #4 of 26 Old 02-01-2012, 10:46 AM
Senior Member
 
kcnitro07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
And thanks to the person willing to buy them and let archaea listen to them first...wait that was me :P

After having them for one night, I'm not totally sold that I like the v1220s more than the single F12. There are definately some sound quality differences, atleast in my room. The two v1220s are most definately louder, as in my couch was shaking with it at -35 db on the onkyo (where as I usually watch movies at -10 or -5 depending on the quality of the sound)...that being said, i was just playing around and the final set up will have the subs turned WAY down from that.

Archaea and I will eventually do similar graphs from my room as well as in the room of the owner of the Klipsch for comparisons.

kcnitro07 is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 02-01-2012, 10:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jproy13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East of West, Canada
Posts: 1,182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Thanks for taking the time to measure these popular budget subwoofers!

+1.

Do you pass by eastern Canada sometimes? I would lend you mine if you want to test them
jproy13 is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 02-01-2012, 11:05 AM
Newbie
 
bggruff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Thanks for taking the time to measure these popular budget subwoofers!

Yeah, thanks for the time and effort Archaea, much appreciated for this and the KC GTG thread!
bggruff is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 02-01-2012, 04:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,267
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 648
This and your Klipsch RW-12D graphs are cool stuff

Be careful, though. Do too many more of these, and there might have to be a title match between you and JimWilson over who is "The Budget Sub Dude."

cel4145 is online now  
post #8 of 26 Old 02-01-2012, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,589
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

+1.

Do you pass by eastern Canada sometimes? I would lend you mine if you want to test them

I'll keep that in mind - the next time you pass through kansas city you do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

This and your Klipsch RW-12D graphs are cool stuff

Be careful, though. Do too many more of these, and there might have to be a title match between you and JimWilson over who is "The Budget Sub Dude."

No competition there. Jim's trying to help out and have fun, just as I'm trying to help out and have fun. I would encourage him to get some measuring equipment though. If there's one thing I've figured out playing with dozens of subwoofers in the last year --- it's that audio memory is exceptionally poor and comparing a sub you heard 12 days ago, much more 12 months ago is all but pretty pointless.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 02-02-2012, 08:25 AM
Senior Member
 
kcnitro07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Archaea came over last night and got a few graphs for the v1220 pair in my room, I'll get measurements for my room soon, but my overall happiness with the pair is getting better. I watched pirates of the caribbean 3 last night at 0....pretty sure my neighbors house was shaking (luckily no one lives there atm). I could feel every explosion pretty well, I believe at one points while listening to some techno/trance music we hit 121 dB... Hopefully Archaea will post the graphs soon, I think his wife probably chastised him when he got home at 10:45.

As for the F12, I still think I like the sound of the F12 better, but the V1220 pair is obviously louder than the single F12...I'm going to continue playing around with the settings and will make a final decision soon on which I prefer.

kcnitro07 is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 02-02-2012, 10:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Florida_Gator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 337
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks for all the measurement work and posting these graphs!

Shows clearly why my system (Polk MonitorII 60s L&R/CS20 Center/F12 sub) set at 80hz crossover sounds better than when I tested at 100hz crossover.

Very pleased with my "budget" setup!

Thanks,

Florida_Gator
Florida_Gator is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 02-02-2012, 02:58 PM
Member
 
hoffmand34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Does that mean the F12 is tuned to ~32hz? I need to get a new sub....
hoffmand34 is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 02-04-2012, 07:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
crazyrob425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,210
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 155
Bic claims the frequency response of the v1220 goes to 150hz and the F12 goes to 200hz.

Were you using a low pass filter to get them to roll off before 100hz?
crazyrob425 is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 02-08-2012, 08:43 AM
Member
 
Golfdad123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

Archaea came over last night and got a few graphs for the v1220 pair in my room, I'll get measurements for my room soon, but my overall happiness with the pair is getting better. I watched pirates of the caribbean 3 last night at 0....pretty sure my neighbors house was shaking (luckily no one lives there atm). I could feel every explosion pretty well, I believe at one points while listening to some techno/trance music we hit 121 dB... Hopefully Archaea will post the graphs soon, I think his wife probably chastised him when he got home at 10:45.

As for the F12, I still think I like the sound of the F12 better, but the V1220 pair is obviously louder than the single F12...I'm going to continue playing around with the settings and will make a final decision soon on which I prefer.

Thanks guys for doing the testing. You've had your F12 for a year but the V1220s aren't broken in yet so they will probably improve a bit more. Keep us posted as they break in more.
Golfdad123 is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 02-08-2012, 10:28 PM
Senior Member
 
kcnitro07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Archaea and I did some more playing with the omni mic and positioning. Here are the results. These graphs are all taken at the same volume with no smoothing and the sub placements are not ideal. The F12 is placed in front of the couch between seating positions 1 and 2. Position one is the center of the couch, position 2 is to the left of the couch and next to the wall, Position 3 is to the right side of the couch and away from the wall. As you can see in the graph, the blue lines are the V1220s and the F12 while the red is just the v1220s. We found what we thought to be the best placement for the v1220s and then I moved the F12 around to see if it would help, and as you see in the graphs, I think it did help a little in flattening out the line.









After listening to some movie clips and some music, it sounds drastically different. I'm hearing notes I didn't really hear before. There was a large lag at about 60 hz prior to moving stuff around and some songs sound a lot different with out that lull. Also, I am almost sure that I hear some sounds I didn't hear prior when watching the movie clips on the demo disc. I do believe I can specifically point out some sounds in the book of eli gun fight at the house. Also the THX clip sounds a lot smoother. So far I'm happy with the sound of this set up, but maybe not the positioning. I might play with re-arranging furniture, but I have a 3 piece sectional couch that is very very very large and if I turn it the other direction I'd only have about 6 inches between the wall and the couch thus making it difficult to get in to the area without climbing.
zagnutty likes this.

kcnitro07 is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 02-11-2012, 08:10 PM
Senior Member
 
kcnitro07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
So, I rearranged my room, and that made it a LOT harder to place my subs to get a decently flat response, its pretty hideous actually. Here are the graphs as compared to the seating positions in my previous posts:

1st Seating position(Center of couch):



2nd seating position(Left side of couch):



3rd seating position(Right side of couch):



And for fun, a graph of where my head is when I lay down vs where it is in seating position 1:




Some how they seem pretty close across the seating positions oppose to the 3rd seat in the previous arrangement that had giant dips. Now if I could just afford something that was stead down to 5 hz eh?

kcnitro07 is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 03-06-2012, 07:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,432
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

No competition there. Jim's trying to help out and have fun, just as I'm trying to help out and have fun. I would encourage him to get some measuring equipment though. If there's one thing I've figured out playing with dozens of subwoofers in the last year --- it's that audio memory is exceptionally poor and comparing a sub you heard 12 days ago, much more 12 months ago is all but pretty pointless.

I didn't see this one until just today, so apologies for resurrecting a ghost...

Agreed on the competition part; I'm not engaged in a rivalry with anyone else who does sub reviews. AAMOF, I encourage others to do it. The more the merrier, as far as I'm concerned. Since you've now done the V1220 I can scratch that off my list of potential candidates.

I don't know that's it's pointless -- my ear isn't too bad actually, nor is my memory -- but I do understand what you're getting at. And I do agree my evaluations would benefit from an objective component as well. To that end I invested in one of these. It may not be the best of the breed, but it's a place to start. Deciphering the documentation and how/why to use the multitude of tests and settings has proven a bit more vexing than I anticipated, so I haven't begun using it just yet. But if it proves worthwhile I will. First, I have to get past the novice factor though...

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 03-06-2012, 09:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
eaamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South mid Tn.
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I just read this like jim. I do have a few questions.
is the room carpeted?
if it is, I would recommend going over to Target and getting a 14"X17" plastic
cutting board and placing it under it.
(same size as the sub)

it the V-1220 is next to the wall are you placing the port that way or is it pointed along the wall?
minimum 4"

one more thing, where did you set the volume control on the sub?
I found it best set at 3.75 of ten. and then up what ever you are driving it with
until there is no distortion.....

my HT
eaamon is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 03-06-2012, 09:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
eaamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South mid Tn.
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 18
note: if you are hearing any sounds from the sub speaker boxes,
then something is set too high.
you should not be able to hear anything from the sub speaker.(below 80Hz)
any sub sounds should sound like they are coming from the direction you are facing
and not the sub speaker.

my HT
eaamon is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 03-23-2012, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,589
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 471
Archaea is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 06-08-2012, 11:01 AM
Senior Member
 
kcnitro07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I've been off the forums for a while, sorry I didn't know there were more questions.

To answer eaamon, the current config has both the F12 and one of the V1220s up against a wall, however, port is facing along the all. THey're in the center of the respective walls and thus have feet of clearance in front of the port. I like your idea of getting plastic, the room is carpet. However, its very short carpet, nearly as short as what you'd find in an office. And the "sounds" I was hearing were good sounds, I hear nothing coming from the subs themselves, just bass! When I said that I meant I was hearing frequencies I hadn't heard before. Unless I missed something in my re-reading the previous posts where I said I heard a bad noise, I don't recall ever hearing a bad noise. In fact, i'm pretty impressed with how loud I've turned it and still not heard bad noises.

As an update on the subs, I really enjoy them, however, Archaea has talked me into a new project thats got a thread over in the DIY section where I'm piecing together a plan to integrate an infinity kappa perfect 12.1 into a sonotube. That looks like a lot of fun and would hopefully be capable of extending a little below 20 Hz, which the BICs don't do so well at being nearly 25 dB down at 20 Hz. I was able to find an infinity sub that LOOKS like a kappa perfect on craigslist for $25, but the kid that is selling it says he doesn't remember the model number so it might not be a perfect, though it certainly looks like one with the silver metallic cone oppose to the green/black cones of their other models. I plan on picking it up tomorrow and will go from there. If that doesn't pan out there are a few showing on Ebay that I could get. If the project turns out well, I could be selling my BICs....

kcnitro07 is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 08-04-2012, 10:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
eaamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South mid Tn.
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I'll admit I too have gone the DIY way. just upgrading some old 12" speaker pair with some
15Hz subs made a real difference. I'll still keep the old bic around.
it is interesting when you read specs on sub speakers. you can see a cost to
performance ration. it really costs to get very low sound and very high power, but worth it.
I might be tempted to replace the speaker in the bic with the same like the TC sound epic
it is almost what the bic cost to begin with.

my HT
eaamon is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 08-05-2012, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,589
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 471
eaamon,

Make sure you understand that a ported box like the BIC's is not just a box that is designed to drop in any 12" driver. The port and box is tuned to a certain frequency. You will potentially get a worse sounding product regardless of subwoofer driver used if your box doesn't match the sub parameters. You may already know this.

Winisd, is a freeware program you can use to plug in the driver parameters and determine the best box design to pair with that speaker.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 01-03-2013, 09:45 AM
Member
 
bblackbu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm debating between the V1220 and the F-12. It sounds like the F-12 goes a little lower in terms of bass and the cabinet looks a little nicer than the V1220. This subwoofer will be located next to my couch along the back wall, so the F-12 will have the back port pointing toward the back wall (w/ ~4" clearance) and the speaker would be facing the front of the room where the TV is located, while the V1220 in that location would have the side port facing away from the couch. I like the idea of the down-firing speaker, as I have 2 little girls that might touch the front-facing speaker on the F-12... however, I also have concerns with the side port on the V1220 (I'm envisioning a princess doll being stuck into the port and lost inside the sub).

From a sound perspective, given where this sub will be located, do you think it matters if I go with front-firing F-12 or the down-firing V1220? Also, any insight on the size of the side port on the V1220 (again, thinking about little hands sticking little toys in there?

Thanks.
bblackbu is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 01-07-2013, 12:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
eaamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South mid Tn.
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 18
as for the front firing sub I would have been more worried about that barbie/princess doll going through
the speaker. the downward firing sub, it is out of sight.
as for the port it does get smaller as it goes in....v1220

my HT
eaamon is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 01-07-2013, 07:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bond 007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by bblackbu View Post

I'm debating between the V1220 and the F-12. It sounds like the F-12 goes a little lower in terms of bass and the cabinet looks a little nicer than the V1220. This subwoofer will be located next to my couch along the back wall, so the F-12 will have the back port pointing toward the back wall (w/ ~4" clearance) and the speaker would be facing the front of the room where the TV is located, while the V1220 in that location would have the side port facing away from the couch. I like the idea of the down-firing speaker, as I have 2 little girls that might touch the front-facing speaker on the F-12... however, I also have concerns with the side port on the V1220 (I'm envisioning a princess doll being stuck into the port and lost inside the sub).
From a sound perspective, given where this sub will be located, do you think it matters if I go with front-firing F-12 or the down-firing V1220? Also, any insight on the size of the side port on the V1220 (again, thinking about little hands sticking little toys in there?
Thanks.
Can you just get them some larger dolls?biggrin.gif

No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
Bond 007 is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 01-29-2013, 08:29 PM
Senior Member
 
soundwhat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Awesome post. Was considering getting two 1220s from BB and now I think I am sold.
soundwhat is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off