Subwoofer for Soundbar - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 02-08-2012, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a continuation of my thread in the Soundbar section.

To quote some of what I said in my soundbar based post,
Quote:


"It comes with a 'Wireless Subwoofer Kit' which I am concerned will only work with Yamahas Subs. Does anyone here know how or even if the SWK-W10 works with non-yamaha Subs? And on that note recommend a (preferably down facing) Subwoofer that is more sound than "woomph". I don't need it so that my neighbor across the cul-de-sac can hear what I'm watching, just need to fill the (small) room with quick-and-true sound be it yahmaha or not."

Quote:


"I really need to know [what subwoofers] work with yamahas "Wireless Subwoofer Kit" that comes with the Yamaha YSP-5100"

The room this subwoofer will be in is small (Approx 15 Feet long 11.25 Feet wide 9 Feet tall)

With this forums assistance you can help me prevent "Buyer's Remorse"

Here are some I have looked at:

-Yamaha YST-FSW150BL Advanced YST II Down-Firing Active Subwoofer
-HSU's STF-1 & VTF 1
-SVS PC12-NSD
-Epik Legend Subwoofer
-Velodyne DEQ-8R 8" Subwoofer & Impact-Mini Powered Subwoofer
-Definitive Technology ProSub 60

I have done as much research as I can, but research does nothing against experience that I don't currently have. Also just about every single subwoofer manufacture has some clever proprietary way to declare themselves "above the rest", which adds to the indecision.
Thank you for any assistance you can give. Oh... and the less money I have to spend on a subwoofer the better ( I suppose goes without saying) but I won't mind putting down the extra dollars down for Quality. As long as it is worth the cash.
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post #2 of 16 Old 02-09-2012, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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24 Hours. So many views...and yet so little posts. How...disappointing, yet not unexpected. Fortunately this wasn't a total loss for one of your forums users PMed me their thoughts (or should I say recommendations), which was appreciated. When I asked this individual why the PM, they replied "To prevent a pissing contest". This only confirmed my original concerns that arose from viewing the "Special Posting Rules".

So why am I posting (with a bump no less) this here instead of "letting sleeping does lie"...well its simple, it's so that others who "Search Engine" themselves here (such as I did) will have something to go off of. Its why I posted here in the first place... I had little to nothing to go off of and was hopeful a user would be ever so kind to assist sans the usual **** & bias you will find off the net. Wishful thinking...but you don't know unless you try and all that.

It's a pity no one on here seems to know the answer at the very least to my first quote involving the Yamaha SWK-W10, but I suppose I should have expected such. In this seemingly major consumer based audiophile part of the forum I would imagine little to none of you would even consider a wireless solution, or do anything that would possibly impede that extra decibel range of pure auditory bliss.

I suppose I could go and ask a rep from the company , but I expect that I would get the same as I have received here, just more professionally. I suppose I don't have much of a choice at this point.

Why doesn't this forum have a guide to those less informed on subwoofers? You all obviously have a very good collective know how, and It would be very helpful for the masses and might even improve post quality.

As a reminder, I am looking for a sealed down-facing subwoofer that is more sound than "woomph", which can be used effectively with a Yamaha YSP-5100 (Active Soundbar) in a room that is Approx 15 Feet long 11.25 Feet wide 9 Feet tall (so it doesn't need to be overly powerful). It will be used for videogames (Speed), movies (Range), and music (Fidelity).
Quote:


Oh... and the less money I have to spend on a subwoofer the better ( I suppose goes without saying) but I won't mind putting down the extra dollars down for Quality. As long as it [proves to be / and ] is worth the cash.

So with you having read that, dare you dig up the courage to at least attempt to answer my questions? I really don't care about the petty squabbles of brand loyalty that may occur here, I just want an answer/information to my questions so I can make a final decision and enjoy my games, movies, and music to the best of my ... financial ability.

If I receive a PM that as information that is pertinent, I may even just post it here under anonymity of my post. The endgame again being showing information for the masses on a question I have yet to see answered myself.
If I am to get no reply at all, then this will be my last post and bump here. No need review and give my thoughts on my final decision if no one here cares.
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post #3 of 16 Old 02-09-2012, 06:31 PM
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I have a YSP 5100 in a bedroom system. I use the same wireless module to integrate an Epik Empire with surprisingly good results.
Even the best soundbars (and the 5100 is in this category) do not go below 100 hz with high output and low distortion. You should crossover at 120 hz and get a sub with good midbass output. Of the ones you listed I'd pick the Epik Legend. It will give tight and punchy midbass yet dig down quite deep for a sub of its size. The only drawback is that it's not downfiring as you hoped.
Other choices could be SVS PB12-NSD (or the PC) or Rythmik F12G, but for a soundbar I think the Legend would be best.
Good luck,
Tim
Edit: The wireless module works with any sub.
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post #4 of 16 Old 02-09-2012, 06:42 PM
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Just curious, why the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus or EX not in your list or suggested subs? They're both downfiring subs.
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post #5 of 16 Old 02-09-2012, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse99 View Post

Just curious, why the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus or EX not in your list or suggested subs? They're both downfiring subs.

The LFM-1 Plus and EX are also an outstanding value. The frequency response claims are 18-180 hz which makes it seem like it could also integrate well with a soundbar. However I know several people with subs designed by Dr. Hsu that felt the midbass was not as strong as deep bass and solved that problem with a midbass module. I don't have personal experience with the LFM's so I don't know how they perform in the midbass frequencies.
Tim
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post #6 of 16 Old 02-09-2012, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

I have a YSP 5100 in a bedroom system. I use the same wireless module to integrate an Epik Empire with surprisingly good results.
Even the best soundbars (and the 5100 is in this category) do not go below 100 hz with high output and low distortion. You should crossover at 120 hz and get a sub with good midbass output. Of the ones you listed I'd pick the Epik Legend. It will give tight and punchy midbass yet dig down quite deep for a sub of its size. The only drawback is that it's not downfiring as you hoped.
Other choices could be SVS PB12-NSD (or the PC) or Rythmik F12G, but for a soundbar I think the Legend would be best.
Good luck,
Tim
Edit: The wireless module works with any sub.

Eureka!

I am ecstatic for finally receiving an answer to my Yamaha SWK-W10, which now frees up some options. Had this not been answered I was going to purchase a Yamaha YST-FSW150BL Subwoofer and be done with it.
Even better, you have experience with the YSP-5100 and have given me a ball park to look for in subwoofers. Thank you thank you!

Out of curiosity, does the Yamaha SWK-W10 require to be plugged into a mono port as the instructions I have found seem to imply, or can I plug into a LFE port? /ignorance.

Any other recommendations in settings of a subwoofer in conjunction with the YSP-5100? I played with the SVS's Merlin Wizard hoping that it could give me a general ball park in settings but it came up as simply null, and I think it would be kind of odd (not to mention to require a bit of gull) to contact SVS and ask for the best settings on a possible competitors subwoofer.

I understand what I ask is subjective and can change room to room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse99 View Post

Just curious, why the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus or EX not in your list or suggested subs? They're both downfiring subs.

To be quite frank I stopped making a list of other possible subs after 5. Simple as that.

Its all pretty overwhelming to choose as it is.
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post #7 of 16 Old 02-09-2012, 11:14 PM
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The Yamaha wireless sub module can be plugged into the LFE input of the sub.
I don't think you can go wrong with either the SVS PC12-NSD or Epik Legend for this application. I would still favor the Legend since you'll be crossing over above 100 hz so the sub will be playing some "localizable" frequencies. The dual drivers on opposite sides will probably prove harder to localize than a single downfiring driver. It was for me.
Tim
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post #8 of 16 Old 02-10-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

The LFM-1 Plus and EX are also an outstanding value. The frequency response claims are 18-180 hz which makes it seem like it could also integrate well with a soundbar. However I know several people with subs designed by Dr. Hsu that felt the midbass was not as strong as deep bass and solved that problem with a midbass module. I don't have personal experience with the LFM's so I don't know how they perform in the midbass frequencies.
Tim

The EX or Plus would be fine. Ricci's review of the EX in Audioholics stated that "The response is smooth enough and flat enough to be crossed over well above 120Hz," and his charts do support much higher.

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post #9 of 16 Old 02-10-2012, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I am slowly narrowing down the options here. After much thought and calculation I can put down up to $1200 dollars solid on a subwoofer, and not a penny more. That includes S & H and all that jazz. Part of me cant believe I'm willing to spend such amount, which is kinda weird if you think about it hard enough... but I digress.My main concern now is when the choosing, purchasing, and receiving finally occurs that I won't know what to do with a subwoofer sans plug it in. This is partly because I have never owned nor purchased a separate subwoofer before, since usually the Hi-fi speakers would come with one.

The more I read up about subwoofers so I can understand instead of just grasp, the more frazzled my brain becomes, it just doesn't want to understand. Probably because a lot of math seems to be involved and shown. Scary. ._.
With that said, I'm now thinking Room EQ as a huge plus. I don't want to make this...investment useless. A plan B would be nice ( or is it C). >_>
This is of course presuming that the Yamaha YSP-5100 can't do it with some subwoofers too. (Ugh.)
---
I have to also mention some things based off of some PMs.

If I had the extensive cash wiggle room, I would drop it on a Paradigm subwoofer bar none. I suppose I now, before I even choose my first subwoofer have something to look forward to. It's a pity its so extremely hard to find a price to even ball park the prices for the subwoofers they sell. Fortunately I'm pretty good with a search engine, and was able to find this to ball park an idea.

The D15 Direct Servo subwoofer from Rythmik ( their only downfireing sub) is also very impressive if it really as quick as the marketing would lead one to believe, and if true I might -maybe- just get this, though I'm concerned it might be overkill for my room size. It's a pity that its priced at the very tippy top of what I have set...but so be it.
---
My choices are constantly evolving with every bit of information I can gather. A read here and a video there.

Looking at Velodyne's full inventory (instead of just the "small room" selection), I have found the Optimum-8 which according to Crutchfield is (Now?) Discontinued. It's not downfireing, but its $699 (down from $999) has EQ (and abunch of other specs.). The thing is...this sucker is really big and sucks up a ton of juice. I'm not sure where I would put it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

The Yamaha wireless sub module can be plugged into the LFE input of the sub.
I don't think you can go wrong with either the SVS PC12-NSD or Epik Legend for this application. I would still favor the Legend since you'll be crossing over above 100 hz so the sub will be playing some "localizable" frequencies. The dual drivers on opposite sides will probably prove harder to localize than a single downfiring driver. It was for me.
Tim

That leaves the two mentioned contenders unless someone can put in 2 cents, press start, and select a better subwoofer for the price and need.
One has dual speakers and is pretty big so I'm not sure where I'm going to put it, but is currently going for $499 Introductory price. Plus shipping bumps it up to $550+.

The other is a differentish ( It has to be a word! I just made it up! XD) speaker that I'll be able to put pretty much anywhere. It costs $749 but costs about $795 after everything goes through.

And this is why I do my best to stay away from candy stores of wide selections. /fatass :P
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post #10 of 16 Old 02-11-2012, 01:33 AM
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I think you'd be much better off with an Epik, Rythmik, or Outlaw plus an Antimode 8033 EQ rather than the Velodyne or Paradigm with their own EQ. I have an 8033s for the Empire with the 5100 and it made a very noticeable difference.
This would give you a better performing sub mated to a more capable EQ for less $$.
Tim
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post #11 of 16 Old 02-11-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoroughThil View Post

Why doesn't this forum have a guide to those less informed on subwoofers? You all obviously have a very good collective know how, and It would be very helpful for the masses and might even improve post quality.


So with you having read that, dare you dig up the courage to at least attempt to answer my questions? I really don't care about the petty squabbles of brand loyalty that may occur here, I just want an answer/information to my questions so I can make a final decision and enjoy my games, movies, and music to the best of my ... financial ability.

Perhaps a humble request for help would have gotten a lot more replies.
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post #12 of 16 Old 02-11-2012, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

I think you'd be much better off with an Epik, Rythmik, or Outlaw plus an Antimode 8033 EQ rather than the Velodyne or Paradigm with their own EQ. I have an 8033s for the Empire with the 5100 and it made a very noticeable difference.
This would give you a better performing sub mated to a more capable EQ for less $$.
Tim

It's a pity I missed that deal with the outlaw subwoofer. Anywho... thank you for letting me know about the Antimode 8033 EQ, I will look into it. Got anything else connected to the Yamaha YSP-5100 that I should know about? :P /rhetorical

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

Perhaps a humble request for help would have gotten a lot more replies.

Then I apologize for not wiping my feet before entering the forum, for I didn't think myself so audacious when all I asked for was help. Fortunately it seems capecodorthopod has forgiven me ( ^__^ THANK YOU!) so hopefully you (all?) will too.
------------------------------------

At this point the final choosing points are simply what the size of unit is (the place I want to put it is 27 inches high X Doesn't matter X 18 inches deep maximum) and weather I will be able to make sure it will not destroy the house when I turn it on. It looks like Rythmik's Downfireing Subwoofer (the D15 Direct Servo Sub SE) might get this. Pity it doesn't come in a wood finish, but wa ev.

Edit Update: Three Days ago purchased Rythmik's Downfireing D15 Direct Servo Sub SE before the price increase. Thank You all both Public & Private users who assisted me in my search.
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post #13 of 16 Old 02-23-2012, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Today I received the above mentioned sub-woofer "Rythmik's Downfireing D15 Direct Servo Sub SE", and while I knew that pro subs were big...WOW, the measurements just don't do justice till you see it in person. I hope I didn't overdo it O_o. Here's the thing though, just as some reviews have mentioned the Rythmik sheet that is supposed to help is basically in gibberish for the uninitiated new-to-pro-subs crowds ( I.E yours truly).

To be embarrassingly frank, I'm having trouble with understanding the abilitys of the full impact "Off-On"/"On-Auto"/"Off" switch which you know means my comprehension of the "quick guide" just goes downhill from there.

Can anyone assist me in helping me properly set up, or at least better comprehend, the Rythmik sub woofer and its settings for my room size? (Approx 15 Feet long 11.25 Feet wide 9 Feet tall)
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post #14 of 16 Old 02-23-2012, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoroughThil View Post

Today I received the above mentioned sub-woofer "Rythmik's Downfireing D15 Direct Servo Sub SE", and while I knew that pro subs were big...WOW, the measurements just don't do justice till you see it in person. I hope I didn't overdo it O_o. Here's the thing though, just as some reviews have mentioned the Rythmik sheet that is supposed to help is basically in gibberish for the uninitiated new-to-pro-subs crowds ( I.E yours truly).

To be embarrassingly frank, I'm having trouble with understanding the abilitys of the full impact "Off-On"/"On-Auto"/"Off" switch which you know means my comprehension of the "quick guide" just goes downhill from there.

Can anyone assist me in helping me properly set up, or at least better comprehend, the Rythmik sub woofer and its settings for my room size? (Approx 15 Feet long 11.25 Feet wide 9 Feet tall)

It turns on when it gets a signal. If it doesn't get a signal after a cerrtain time it turns off.

Every room is different and its really up to you to move the sub around your room to figure out which spot works the best. Best to get a receiver with room correction like Audyssesy, MCACC, or YPAO to help you.

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #15 of 16 Old 02-25-2012, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I have never owned a high quality sub woofer before (unless you consider BOSE hideaway acoustimass subwoofer high quality). PEQ off. Volume Low (10 Clicks from absolute min). LFE Connection. YSP-5100 "IntelliBeam" ... The movie Ironman 2.

O. M. G. O________________o Sweet Mother of Mercy.

.
..
....
......

Presuming I have calibrated correctly...I think I over did it. I'm pretty sure I could feel the bass in my gut, my toes, and the whole house in general. If this was in a stone entombed room with sound dampeners with the next neighbor a mile or two away... this thing would most likely be a happy investment.

This is not the case. The only thing between my neighbors houses and mine is some drywall, wood, and flame retardant foam. SO!... while I think about what to do next Im going to clean up from my nosebleed and go cry in a corner for about 15 min. /s lie down for abit.

P.S. Holy ****.
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post #16 of 16 Old 02-25-2012, 10:28 AM
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After you have had a chance to experiment with it some more and tweak settings, and if you feel like you purchased a jack hammer instead of the hand hammer that you needed, you could ship it back and get something a lot more mellow like the X-REF 12. It has a pretty steep rolloff starting at 30hz, so it won't be putting out as much ultra low frequency that could transmit throughout your whole house and to your neighbor. Just make certain that your system isn't using a crossover above 80hz for the X-Ref 12. If that's the case, I'd go with the NHT B-12d instead.

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