Increased my budget, need advice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 02-10-2012, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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My room is 21x16x13, 4000 sq ft, vaulted ceiling, open on the back side partially. I have a large entertainment center on the front wall, a sub or subs can flank the entertainment center or go in a corner. I listen to music most the time and a movie once a week. My budget is around 2000. I've narrowed down my choices to dual empires, dual VTF-15Hs, JTR Captivator, or a Submersive HP. My current subs are a Deftech Powerfield 1500 and a Klipsch 12. I'm sure any of my choices will be satisfying. I'm not going to return any subs, just to much trouble, so this is one and done for me. Any thoughts are appreciated. I'm leaning toward the empires as I usually prefer duals over a single however I've never had a single with as much force as a Capitivator or Submersive.
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post #2 of 17 Old 02-10-2012, 01:30 PM
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I have one Submersive HP in a big-nasty-bowling-alley-of-an room--unsealed and open to the rest of the house--and I am very pleased with it, even though I haven't taken all the steps I should to make sure its performance is maximized, like a sub crawl, room treatments, etc. I don't have personal experience with the other subs you are looking at, but I will say the SubM is very tight and very musical. If someone makes a better product for the money I'd be very surprised, although from what I have read all the choices on your list are excellent.
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post #3 of 17 Old 02-10-2012, 01:41 PM
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You could get dual CHT VS18.1's with amp delivered for a few dollars less than your budget.
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post #4 of 17 Old 02-10-2012, 01:53 PM
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If I had that budget, I would get a SubM HP. Dual VTF-15H's or dual Empires would fill your room nicely, but you can never get too much sub.
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post #5 of 17 Old 02-10-2012, 01:54 PM
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Give this one a look also. Well under that budget.


http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F25.html

Or even two of these.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F15.html
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post #6 of 17 Old 02-10-2012, 01:59 PM
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Based on what you are using the subs for mostly (music) I would tend to think that dual Empire's would be more than sufficient and will save you some money.
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post #7 of 17 Old 02-10-2012, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I wish I knew that the Sub HP was going to put out more quality and quantity than dual Empires, it would make for an easy choice. I like the C
HT option except I prefer to have the amp on the sub.
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post #8 of 17 Old 02-10-2012, 02:01 PM
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While I don't have one, it seems pretty clear to me from the various shootout threads that the Seaton and JTR have are the best choices for HT and music in terms of SQ. Seems like you have to decide whether or not you need duals for a smoother room response, and then go from there. Do you want a better sub or two subs?

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post #9 of 17 Old 02-10-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

While I don't have one, it seems pretty clear to me from the various shootout threads that the Seaton and JTR have are the best choices for HT and music in terms of SQ. Seems like you have to decide whether or not you need duals for a smoother room response, and then go from there. Do you want a better sub or two subs?

Based on various shootouts the Submersive has the edge for music, while the vented Captivator may have a slight edge for HT. So for the OP who is mostly music the Submersive HP has the edge.

But if we want to really make this complicated, Dr. Earl Geddes would instruct the OP to get 3 lesser subs which he has espoused to make for a truly great music sub set-up.
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post #10 of 17 Old 02-11-2012, 06:48 AM
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After owning dual svs pb13 ultras and hearing a single powered Captivator in my room in the 2011 kc subwoofer meet - I would choose a single Captivator in a heartbeat over dual pb13s. I'm usually a big advocate for duals too, but in this case the JTR and Seaton equipment is two leagues above! In my opinion all those lesser subs need not apply in your room and with your budget. Since you say you only want one and like music better I'll steer you towards a submersive hp. It is a fantastic sub. Also - there's something about dual opposed that gives a room a more filled ...two sub feel if you can only have one sub. If you said you liked movies better and wanted the most headroom I'd steer you to JTR! I absolutely love my JTR cap pro pair - I think they are the most fun and rewarding purchase I've ever made. I've heard the two lined up at three subwoofer meets now and you can't go wrong with either. Jeff was running a nice discount on 2011 JTR products. You could email him and see what he has left - if anything.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #11 of 17 Old 02-11-2012, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

After owning dual svs pb13 ultras and hearing a single powered Captivator in my room in the 2011 kc subwoofer meet - I would choose a single Captivator in a heartbeat over dual pb13s. I'm usually a big advocate for duals too, but in this case the JTR and Seaton equipment is two leagues above! In my opinion all those lesser subs need not apply in your room and with your budget. Since you say you only want one and like music better I'll steer you towards a submersive hp. It is a fantastic sub. Also - there's something about dual opposed that gives a room a more filled ...two sub feel if you can only have one sub. If you said you liked movies better and wanted the most headroom I'd steer you to JTR! I absolutely love my JTR cap pro pair - I think they are the most fun and rewarding purchase I've ever made. I've heard the two lined up at three subwoofer meets now and you can't go wrong with either. Jeff was running a nice discount on 2011 JTR products. You could email him and see what he has left - if anything.

That is saying alot for the Captivator. I will email Jeff, thanks.
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post #12 of 17 Old 02-11-2012, 07:53 AM
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Duals help reduce room modes. You are at a place in Audio that room measuring software will help you. I encourage you to think about it. Once you go beyond HTIB measuring software takes the guess work out and you really maximize spending and setup !!!


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post #13 of 17 Old 02-11-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Duals help reduce room modes. You are at a place in Audio that room measuring software will help you. I encourage you to think about it. Once you go beyond HTIB measuring software takes the guess work out and you really maximize spending and setup !!!

Are you talking to me? I have an omnimic and have posted graphs of my cap pair on multiple occcassions. With the inuke dsp I have a near ruler flat graph from 20hz on up. In preparation for the 2012 meet I measured subs all over my room for several hours to find the best placement. Where the svs subs were placed when I owned them happened to be the best and flattest configuration in my room. I preferred a single JTR cap in a less desirable room location (big 50hz null) in the 2011 subwoofer meet to my dual svs pb13 ultras in the superior room positions. So did forum members carp, luke kamp, and counsil. What's more I preferred the cap pro pair immediately out of the box( passive with no eq ) to the svs pb 13 ultra pair. Eq only made the caps better! Duals are usually better and I have experienced and recommended the same, but in my opinion these too shelf subs are so much better that I personally would rather )have a single than duals of a lessser. I'm no stranger to duals either. I've owned dual infinity hps 1000, dual jamo d7 (thx ultra II certified), and dual SVS pb13 ultras. I'd take a single cap without flinching over any of those subs. You'll also note by all acounts I have a difficult room.

If you weren't talking to me then I agree with you that the ability to measure what you are doing with an omnimic or rew is a very positive thing. Just by turning my ported caps 90 degrees there is a much flatter response in my room. Free eq! - I don't agree that eq is required however to enjoy the sound in most cases! Greater enjoyment yes! But you can recognize the quality of a good sub even without a ruler flat eq. Something our blind meet in 2012 proved clearly. Neither the loudest nor the flattest frequency response subs won the meet.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #14 of 17 Old 02-11-2012, 08:40 AM
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Nope, Thread starter.


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post #15 of 17 Old 02-11-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Spur Darren View Post

You could get dual CHT VS18.1's with amp delivered for a few dollars less than your budget.

This is what I'm going to buy. I don't think anything can match the output for anywhere near the price.
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post #16 of 17 Old 02-11-2012, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beetlesnack View Post

This is what I'm going to buy. I don't think anything can match the output for anywhere near the price.

I think this is an excellent choice, however my wife is very understanding but I do not think she could handle duals of this size. I had originally told her only a small set of speakers would go in the den so I am pushing as it is. Thanks for the input.
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post #17 of 17 Old 02-11-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigotis View Post

I think this is an excellent choice, however my wife is very understanding but I do not think she could handle duals of this size. I had originally told her only a small set of speakers would go in the den so I am pushing as it is. Thanks for the input.

Duals are a tough sell, especially if it is a living area, dedicated HT can sometimes be easier. Good luck, I'm sure it will sound just fine.


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