Beat my duals with a single $1k MAX - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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After getting back more from the IRS than I expected, I am looking to "upgrade" from my dual Lava LSP-12's to a single IF thats possible given that I already have duals. First, I think the Lava's are a terrific sub for the price paid ~$575 for two shipped to my house. They have performed exceptionally well for what my family and I need, clean tight bass that very rarely goes past -20 on my AVR (and even that shakes the windows, walls and everything else). However, I know that they are just that, a budget sub that wouldnt be confused with anything in the most recent sub comparisons by Archea and Husker Omaha. So I am wondering if upgrading to a mid-level single would be beneficial. At any rate, here are my requirements...

1. Budget: MAX $1k. Not a penny more. 4 kids at home all wanting something different and a wife clamoring to spend the day at the mall shopping and I'm lucky I can stretch it to 1k.

2. Zero size requirements or constraints, also ported or sealed dosent matter to me. Especially reading the sub comparo results that showed many people with far more knowledge that I couldnt tell the difference.

3. Room Dimensions: 15x12 with a 16 foot vaulted ceiling that opens to the kitchen/dining room to the left with a 3 foot wall separating the rooms and a standard hallway to the right. Location is more important here. I HAVE to place them along the wall with my other HT equipment. SO it will be corner loaded (the 3 foot wall), under the center channel (which is where my dual Lava's are currently)

4. Primary use: 90+% either TV or movies (bluray, HDX Vudu). Occasionally, my wife and I get an itch to listen to music while the kids are in school, but not anywhere close to enough time to warrent a musical sub.

5. Listening habits: Once a year (maybe), I will be alone in my house and want to play Tron: Legacy at reference level. the other 360ish days of the year, we are listening to volumes around the -30 range.

6. WAF/Appearance: Plays a role but not important. Meaning, the wife loves the look of the piano black of an Ultra (as do I), but the flat black of most anything else will do.

7. Timeframe: within 6 weeks.

So is there something that will "beat" the duals that I have for the requirements that I posted? If its not going to blow me away, then I will spend my money elsewhere. And please dont even say, get one now and another 6 months from now, as thats probably not in the cards.

Thank you all!
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post #2 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 06:48 AM
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keep the lavas...once a year for reference output, IMO would not warrant an upgrade...if you have enough spl and are happy with the sound...save your money and put it towards something else....not sure how much you would be impressed with an upgrade playing at those levels.
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post #3 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 06:57 AM
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Possibly something used that'd be a major upgrade, but as mrcoop indicated, keep what you've got if it satisfies (are we audio types EVER satisfied?). If you want to play around and try something different, then dual somethings at the $1k/pair point might impress and keep FR smooth over the entire room. Getting a single or pair of subs that go deeper might be the biggest improvement for movie watching. Nothing like feeling some ultra low frequencies and not hearing anything. SVS, HSU, Outlaw, etc. all have options that'll go deeper than your Lavas handily. The SVS upper lines and Outlaws can be tuned with port plugs to attain lower FR or higher output.

Otherwise save the money and combine it later for a more major upgrade...tough to save but worthwhile in the long run.

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post #4 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boarder1995 View Post

Possibly something used that'd be a major upgrade, but as mrcoop indicated, keep what you've got if it satisfies (are we audio types EVER satisfied?). If you want to play around and try something different, then dual somethings at the $1k/pair point might impress and keep FR smooth over the entire room. Otherwise save the money and combine it later for a more major upgrade...tough to save but worthwhile in the long run.

I thought about this, perhaps dual Outlaws when they go on sale is $998 I think. Since I am not playing reference levels as mentioned, will I have an OMG moment with the Outlaws at around 18-20Hz knowing that the Lava's are more in the 25-28Hz range?
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post #5 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 07:11 AM
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Oops, I was editing while you posted...
The difference between 18 and 25 Hz is fairly substantial. I believe the Outlaw EX will reach to 16Hz in the single port plugged configuration. The depth will be noticable even playing at quieter levels assuming the material has information down there. The low extension is kind of an addiction with many here, so be careful listening to our advice. I personally love those low notes.

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post #6 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 07:44 AM
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I have dual Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Pluses, bought them while they were on sale for $998 shipped to my house. I love them and I am not left wanting more they completely satisfy my needs and wants. They dig really deep for a $500 sub. U-571 depth charge seen!!!!! WOW! The system is in my basement and my wife was up on the first floor and asked if the house could withstand all that bass and air movement, she thought the house was going to crumble to pieces and that was only with the volume at -30db with them running 2db hot. Calibrated with Audyssey Mult EQ and Radio Shack Digital SPL Meter.

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post #7 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 09:28 AM
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I would also consider dual Rythmik FV12s in that price range. I agree though that if u are happy with your Lava's then you should keep then. Besides a lack of bass below 30hz, they really are surprisingly good sounding for the money.
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post #8 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 10:01 AM
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If your Lava's are collocated and not used to cancel modes by spreading them you would be better off with a single higher quality sub.
@ 1k or less I'd recommend the Hsu VTF-15 or Rythmik FV15. Both are within $49 of your budget shipped.
Otherwise patience following the used sub market here and Audiogon could buy you even more for the $$, with a little more risk.
Tim
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post #9 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

If your Lava's are collocated and not used to cancel modes by spreading them you would be better off with a single higher quality sub.
@ 1k or less I'd recommend the Hsu VTF-15 or Rythmik FV15. Both are within $49 of your budget shipped.
Otherwise patience following the used sub market here and Audiogon could buy you even more for the $$, with a little more risk.
Tim

^^^ This especially since you have this room opened to others .
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post #10 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 10:28 AM
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I would also throw an Epik Empire in the mix. One of those would easily be superior to two Lava subs. It would come in under $1K shipped as well.

That said, you can play the upgrade game all the time. If you are happy with what you have then perhaps you can put the money to other use. Like a speaker upgrade
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post #11 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post


2. Zero size requirements or constraints, also ported or sealed dosent matter to me. Especially reading the sub comparo results that showed many people with far more knowledge that I couldnt tell the difference.

So is there something that will "beat" the duals that I have for the requirements that I posted? If its not going to blow me away, then I will spend my money elsewhere. And please dont even say, get one now and another 6 months from now, as thats probably not in the cards.

Thank you all!

Two of these:
http://creativesound.ca/details.php?model=TRIO12HORNKIT

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Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

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post #12 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 11:07 AM
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I would buy the best 1000 dollar sub you can find (research some of them and come to your own conclusion, I would go for the HSU VTF-15 myself) and then next year at tax time get a 2nd one!!
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post #13 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 11:27 AM
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ratm,

I guess my question is what do you feel like is missing that would want you to upgrade? If you are happy enough, then I would leave well enough alone.

Life is good.
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post #14 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 11:32 AM
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No question dual Outlaw EX when on sale for $1,098 delivered. What's magic about 6 weeks?
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post #15 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

No question dual Outlaw EX when on sale for $1,098 delivered. What's magic about 6 weeks?

Tax refund will be here
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post #16 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

If your Lava's are collocated and not used to cancel modes by spreading them you would be better off with a single higher quality sub.
@ 1k or less I'd recommend the Hsu VTF-15 or Rythmik FV15. Both are within $49 of your budget shipped.
Otherwise patience following the used sub market here and Audiogon could buy you even more for the $$, with a little more risk.
Tim

Does one need to place them directly across from each other to take advantage of the "cancelling modes" your talking about?
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post #17 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 02:36 PM
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/140555061895...84.m1438.l2649

Simply an amazing sub. You'd still have a couple hundred left for a good amp.
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post #18 of 43 Old 02-16-2012, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrager View Post

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140555061895...84.m1438.l2649

Simply an amazing sub. You'd still have a couple hundred left for a good amp.

Seems amazing, but is it really an improvement of the roll off of the Lava, though? JBL rates it 35hz to 950hz. Has an interesting frequency response. Where does one find a receiver with a 900hz crossover? LOL

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post #19 of 43 Old 02-17-2012, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post


Does one need to place them directly across from each other to take advantage of the "cancelling modes" your talking about?

No. Often midwall placement on opposing walls works best but that's for simple rectangular spaces not vaulted ceilings or L-shaped rooms.
There are suggestions you can try in the Harman White Paper on multiple subs by Todd Welti but in the end you have to do some trial and error with a sub crawl or take measurements in the proposed positions.
Good luck.
Tim
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post #20 of 43 Old 02-17-2012, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Seems amazing, but is it really an improvement of the roll off of the Lava, though? JBL rates it 35hz to 950hz. Has an interesting frequency response. Where does one find a receiver with a 900hz crossover? LOL

+1

I could be wrong but with that accordian style surround, it doesn't seem like a sub that would do well with sub 20hz material though I bet there is plenty of upper bass punch.
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post #21 of 43 Old 02-17-2012, 09:43 AM
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The JBL looks to be a terrible HT sub. It's output is decent, but it's got no bottom end.
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post #22 of 43 Old 02-17-2012, 09:54 AM
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If it could dig down to 20Hz and below with some kind of authority wonder if it would have a lot of port noise I realize there are four but appear to be rather small.
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post #23 of 43 Old 02-17-2012, 09:58 AM
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Obviously it's tuning is in the mid to upper 30's. It's built for high sensitivity, not for playing deep.
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post #24 of 43 Old 02-17-2012, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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So after some deliberation and reading all of these posts, I think I am going to choose (which is going to be almost impossible) from:

Empire: Really like the reviews that I have read about this sub. Solid to 20hz, sealed for when I want to listen to music.

Outlaw EX: Bang for the buck and can add a 2nd if I want later on if I need to, plus it hits around 16-17 Hz

FV15: LOVE this sub and its capabilities but is just a tad out of my $$$ range

F15: Wife LOVES the piano black color and the smaller footprint.

Either way, whatever I chose will be my sub for several years so it sucks to have to actually pull the trigger
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post #25 of 43 Old 02-17-2012, 12:25 PM
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I wish I didn't read this thread.

I'm in a similar situation, or soon will be. I'm getting a room addition built and have 3 kids and wife who doesn't like anything loud or room shaking.

I bought 2 Emotive Ultra 12s for $329 each since I knew I would rarely get a chance to play it loud and deep. I figured I would go for the best even sound at 30 Hz and higher at a reasonable price.

Now I wonder if i'll be disappointed and want to get something better.

I would probably get a hsu vtf-15. It will be right at around $1,000 w/ shipping and it's probabably the best single sub you can get for that price. Sometimes they have B stock for $100 less.
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post #26 of 43 Old 02-17-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

I wish I didn't read this thread.

I'm in a similar situation, or soon will be. I'm getting a room addition built and have 3 kids and wife who doesn't like anything loud or room shaking.

I bought 2 Emotive Ultra 12s for $329 each since I knew I would rarely get a chance to play it loud and deep. I figured I would go for the best even sound at 30 Hz and higher at a reasonable price.

Now I wonder if i'll be disappointed and want to get something better.

I would probably get a hsu vtf-15. It will be right at around $1,000 w/ shipping and it's probabably the best single sub you can get for that price. Sometimes they have B stock for $100 less.

Those Emotivas are very good subs for what they cost you. If you decided to upgrade, you should be able to get most of your money back if you sell them.
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post #27 of 43 Old 02-17-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

So after some deliberation and reading all of these posts, I think I am going to choose (which is going to be almost impossible) from:

Empire: Really like the reviews that I have read about this sub. Solid to 20hz, sealed for when I want to listen to music.

Outlaw EX: Bang for the buck and can add a 2nd if I want later on if I need to, plus it hits around 16-17 Hz

FV15: LOVE this sub and its capabilities but is just a tad out of my $$$ range

F15: Wife LOVES the piano black color and the smaller footprint.

Either way, whatever I chose will be my sub for several years so it sucks to have to actually pull the trigger

If you have a strict $1k budget an Epic Empire would be a significant improvement in sound quality, output and extension. $938 max shipped. EQ'd, its sound quality is impressive for its cost. I still stand by my earlier rec's for the VTF-15 and FV15 if you can stretch it a bit.
Tim
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post #28 of 43 Old 02-17-2012, 03:39 PM
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[I would probably get a hsu vtf-15. It will be right at around $1,000 w/ shipping and it's probabably the best single sub you can get for that price. ][Sometimes they have B stock for $100 less.]



It has been great for me as I could only fit one in my room in the best location and had a budget of 1000.00. although it seems to put out as much or more than a couple of our clients that cost several hundreds more.
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post #29 of 43 Old 02-18-2012, 10:44 AM
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A pair of Outlaw LFM-1 EX will not only have true extension to below 18Hz, but for $1,098 delivered when on sale, provide more cone area and more amp power than an HSU VTF-15H. Dual EX also allows for frequency response smoothing that a single sub can't match. No EQ is needed, one simply runs the EX's in Maximum Extension mode for significant output at 20 Hz and below.

See the Audioholics review of the EX as tested by Josh Ricci.
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post #30 of 43 Old 02-18-2012, 11:10 AM
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I sold my eD A2-300 and am in the same boat as the OP so I have really been watching this thread.

I have a large entertainment room in the basement that is open to a bar area and playroom. About 5500 cubic square feet total. I will be sitting about 11ft from the subwoofer it have flexibility along the front and side wall (side wall being next to the main seating). I currently have a PA-150 in the front right hand corner of the room and this is where the new main sub would go (PA-150 would either be relegated for the back of the room or sold).

I am really leaning towards the Epic Empire. I spoke to Chad and he is a great guy. Gave me some good advice and was not a BD salesman like you sometimes find. He told me if I bought one Empire, and decided to buy another down the road, he would honor the dual Empire discount.

I am not looking for earth shattering bass. I have three young kids and rarely get a chance to watch movies alone in the house and play at reference levels.

That said, I may be able to stretch for the HSU 15, really like the company, and like the options of using two open ports, one open port, and some of the other features. The Rythmik FV15 is also enticing, but would most likely be too big of a stretch. For just a little more I could add a second Empire down the road.

Plan on ordering either this weekend or early next week, and may be overanalyzing everything Pretty sure I would be happy with any of these three subs but I am just trying to figure out if the HSU is worth extra money. From my understanding the Empire will actually extend lower and may have more midbass punch.
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