Outlaw LFM-1 Plus port chuffing?? I only have it at 2! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok quickly here is my current setup:

HTPC for all audio and video, Creative X-Fi 6 channel out
(creative control panel crossover set to 80Hz, +15dB is NOT checked for subwoofer, all speakers set to small, Arcsoft TMT used for blu-ray and DVD playback to decode audio to 6 channel out)

Integra DTR-5.3 receiver 80Wpc 20Hz-20kHz
Paradigm Studio 60 v2 fronts
Paradigm CC-370 center
JBL Control 5 for surrounds
Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus

Room is about 14'x14' with 10' ceilings, house is old built in late 1800s lol, floor is carpeted with padding.


Fro the most par the sub has performed marvelously! I am incredibly happy with it except for one damned nagging problem. The main reaosn I bought the sub in the first place... low frequency extension. I never had a sub that did below 35Hz I wanted strong 20Hz with some extension down. One paticular benchmark I use is the movie Pulse at the 1:12:40 mark with the server room as it has a very strong 16-18Hz "pulse" (see this thread for more details)

Now typically I have my receiver at about 66 on the volume setting...sometimes I go up a bit more to 76 if more people are there and I am going for that WOW factor (small room so not much needed right now for higher SPL). The problem is with nearly every movie / song I can have the level knob on the outlaw at about 10-11 o'clock (not even half way) and go up to 76 on receiver with no problems...no noticeable distortion, no cabinet noise etc. But on some movies @76 on receiver volume level I have to back the sub level knob back down to about the 8'oclock position and for 66 on the receiver volume level maybe 9'oclock postion.. otherwise I get horrible port chuffing with especially low, low frequency effects for example that part in the movie Pulse mentioned earlier.

The chuffing is worse if I run in max extension mode with one port plugged, it is lessened with max output mode and both ports opened (which is how I have been running it lately) but it is still there (the volume settings mentioned above were for max output mode, if I run max extension I have to turn the sub down even more!)

I Actually went and purchased a nice receiver (AVR-2808CI) so I could then go HDMI direct, then use Audyssey to do a better job configuring things (not to mention get better control and a bit more dynamic power) but after finding a great deal on that receiver, FedEx completely destroyed the unit in shipping so now waiting on a refund and processing and all that before I look for another one. Depressing too because it was $270 shipped and had all lthe remotes, 12 gauge wires for every speaker, monster banana plugs, the mic, manuals..*sigh*

But anyway I was hoping some others might chime in hereand lend some advice. Am I just running this thing too hot? I am tryign to locate a SPL meter now to make sure when I do test tones I am indeed getting the same levels out of each of the speakers. I seen a SPL metere app for the iPad/ iPhone (Ihave both iPad 2 and iPhone 4) and have heard mixed reviews on it.

Last night I watched the new Star trek on Blu-ray again with my new setup @ 66 with sub level set to 10-11o'clock and it was GREAT! But as I said every once in a while I run in to that one low Hz track that I hear the chuffing bad and I am scared to ruin the sub! But having it low like needed for those low Hz tracks takes away from everything else.

So what do you have your LFM-1 Plus set to?

If I can tomorrow night I'll take some pics of the setup I am running for now and post them here.
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post #2 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 01:57 PM
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It sounds like your sub is too hot. Adjusting the subs gain knob will increase/decrease the subs output significantly. You should calibrate your sub in the -3db to +3db range and then increase the sub in your AVR to taste. Check the Outlaw Owner's thread, you may get more response.

While the Plus is a good sub, you may be expecting too much out of it.
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post #3 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 02:20 PM
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Based on the Audioholics review of the LFM-1EX, you might get better results with the EX in Maximum Extension mode, but that is water over the dam. Continue using Max Output and accept the fact that port chuffing is a fact of life when you play certain movies at rather high level.
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post #4 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I was hoping the audyssey setup might help me to properly get things set

I was only scared of the port chuffing as I didn't want to think maybe I was running it too hot and didn't want to damage it.... Bt all the way down that low?
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post #5 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 02:54 PM
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The numbers on the sub, position of the dial, etc. are largely meaningless unless you know a lot about the topology of the amp, the taper of the pot, etc. SRV used to think his blackface Fender amps sounded best with everything on 6. But every amp is different. So his amp tech putlled the knobs off and slid them back on so that each amp was running in "SRV territory" with everything on 6.
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post #6 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Based on the Audioholics review of the LFM-1EX, you might get better results with the EX in Maximum Extension mode, but that is water over the dam. Continue using Max Output and accept the fact that port chuffing is a fact of life when you play certain movies at rather high level.

Hes right. I went thru a period of depression when my EX chuffed. Got over it now

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #7 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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That's what was odd with it in max extension with one port plugged the chuffing was worse I had to turn it down more than max output, you would think it was the opposite?

Yeah I know all amps are different and the settings can sometimes being meaningless... But it just seemed odd that I had to have it that low

Maybe is should just say screw it all and get a Danley labs dts10 lmao

As I said though for the most part I have been incredibly happy with this sub it is certainly better than anything I have ever owned.
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post #8 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nintari View Post

But anyway I was hoping some others might chime in hereand lend some advice. Am I just running this thing too hot?

Hi nintari, its possible you may have over compensate due to a bad sub location. Did you try doing a sub crawl to find the sweet spot?
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post #9 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nintari View Post

That's what was odd with it in max extension with one port plugged the chuffing was worse I had to turn it down more than max output, you would think it was the opposite?

No, that's exactly how it works, especially at high spl. You cabinet and ports are tuned for a certain frequency, going under that frequency is more likely to cause chuffing and distortion.

Max extention is meant for lower volumes, max output for higher.
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post #10 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 04:29 PM
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Audyssey dynamic EQ can over-boost the ultra deep frequencies, you might want to turn off the dynamic EQ if you happen to have it on. One thing that helped reduce chuffing on my EX's was tipping them over to be front firing. It could be that the Outlaw sub is too close to the floor, you might want to raise it off the floor by an inch or two somehow. I have PVC snugly around the feet and this gives it another inch off the floor. You don;t have to worry about chuffing damaging anything, it might sound annoying but it isn't harmful in itself. You just don't want to bottom out the driver, but that is something else altogether.
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post #11 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Jchin yes I tried but not many places to put it and kinda hard to really tell without a spl meter as well, even had to make a cable to do the crawl with

I'm going to try one last position which i will have to move the fronts wider, and swap the fronts and sub (so the sub would be where the left speaker was and now in between the fronts)
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post #12 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Not using audyssey yet, no receiver with it yet, I actually thought about testing it front firing but realize that wouldn't be optimal since that's not what it was designed for...

Then again I almost thought about experimenting and making something like the turbo module that hsu uses on some of there subs lol

Maybe I can attempt to take some video too and possibly capture it, and show settings volume levels, environment etc


Was also thinking of making subwoofer isolation platform to get it a bit higher up and maybe not lose as much in the floor
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post #13 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 05:03 PM
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To prevent chuffing, I would think you need wider ports, not longer ports. The Hsu turbo merely elongated the ports. Maybe by making the ports longer but with more gradual flaring, that could help, but an outer module doing that would look ridiculous. The Hsu turbo unit looked pretty odd as it was.
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post #14 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

To prevent chuffing, I would think you need wider ports, not longer ports. The Hsu turbo merely elongated the ports. Maybe by making the ports longer but with more gradual flaring, that could help, but an outer module doing that would look ridiculous. The Hsu turbo unit looked pretty odd as it was.

Enlongating the ports can help with the chuffing. If you lengthen the ports, you could lower the tune so that you could run at the max extension tune with both ports open. That would lower the air velocity in the ports and reduce the chuffing. Yes, it would be ugly.
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post #15 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post


Enlongating the ports can help with the chuffing. If you lengthen the ports, you could lower the tune so that you could run at the max extension tune with both ports open. That would lower the air velocity in the ports and reduce the chuffing. Yes, it would be ugly.

Especially for a downfiring sub lol

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #16 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 07:18 PM
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No doubt about it you are running your sub way too hot. I have the Plus and I had an Onkyo 609 that only has Audyssey 2EQ so I dialed in my sub with an SPL meter and switched back and forth from a song and a scene on Transformers 3 that I was familiar with. After that I thought it sounded great and had no chuffing whatsoever.

I recently upgraded my AVR to a Denon 4311 which has Audyssey Multeq XT32 and it was a major change. At first it seemed like my sub wasn't as powerful and didn't have as much of an impact, but if I raised the level more than 3db on the receiver I would get chuffing. After listening and getting used to the new room correction and reading more I realized I was running my sub too hot before and didn't realize it even though I had it tuned to not have any port noise or chuffing. Most people that don't have the proper room correction run their subs way too hot and don't realize it. If you get any kind of chuffing except on a rare occasion your subb isn't dialed in right, that's just how it is. There is a lot more to getting your sub right than I and most people ever realized.

Life is hard, be harder.
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post #17 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 07:41 PM
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First, don't use the iPhone SPL app for subs. It's not accurate at all.

Next, what do you have the sub channel level set to on the receiver? If you have it turned down very low into the minus range, that could be your problem.

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post #18 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

First, don't use the iPhone SPL app for subs. It's not accurate at all.

Next, what do you have the sub channel level set to on the receiver? If you have it turned down very low into the minus range, that could be your problem.


I have a feeling my RS spl meter is kind of crapping out on me. I set one of my EX's to 75dB and Audy auto cab resulted in a -3.5 result.

Eventually just used Audy to do my settings and got both subs to 0.0dB and -0.5dB. Running both Audy set it to -4.5dB which makes sense to me

for the op, are you getting chuffing alot? I only got it on very bass heavy scenes but I'm running 2dB hot from -4.5dB

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #19 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 08:20 PM
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Curious, looking at the inside of the EX maybe some polyfill might help with chuffing by slowing down the movement of air.
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post #20 of 34 Old 02-21-2012, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

for the op, are you getting chuffing alot? I only got it on very bass heavy scenes but I'm running 2dB hot from -4.5dB

Have you stopped getting it since you turned off Dynamic EQ?

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post #21 of 34 Old 02-22-2012, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Thats part of the reaons I wish to get a new receiver with Multi EQ, to help make sure I'm configured as close to right as possible.

I figure the iPad SPL meter would at least give me some sort of a baseline reading to judge off of for better sub placement as I said though in the room it is in I don't have very many options so placement is limited. My next option as I said would be to try and widen the front left and right and see how the sub does closer to the center of the room.

Once I take some pics of the room you'll see what I am talking about with limited placement

I'll double check the setting on the Integra DTR-5.3 for the speakers / sub tonight and poast some pics, video and etc later tonight.

BTW I keep getting out bid last second on each of the damned auctions for the radioshack SPL meters lol I'm too cheap and don't want to pay $50 when I can buy it local for $50 (this is the digital one I think the 33-4050). From reading around the analog one seems to be more accurate
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post #22 of 34 Old 02-22-2012, 06:37 AM
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The analog RS meters are on closeout and under $20 if you can still find one locally.

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post #23 of 34 Old 02-22-2012, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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yeah been to 3 of them here and none had any...except for one location that had the digital one for $50

Seems like you can't even find them on the Radioshack website either t o try to check store stock (even the current models).

There are a few more locations I am going to check... one is about 40 minutes away and I have a strong feeling if any location had it this one would.
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post #24 of 34 Old 02-22-2012, 07:15 AM
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I am pretty new at this, but are you not supposed to adjust the sub volume nob but rather adjust through your receiver? I think I got mine right now at -2.5 and the sub volume is barley on 1?
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post #25 of 34 Old 02-22-2012, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nintari View Post

yeah been to 3 of them here and none had any...except for one location that had the digital one for $50

Seems like you can't even find them on the Radioshack website either t o try to check store stock (even the current models).

There are a few more locations I am going to check... one is about 40 minutes away and I have a strong feeling if any location had it this one would.

I think that ship sailed months ago. The analog RS SPL meter is nowhere to be found, as far as I can tell.

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #26 of 34 Old 02-22-2012, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Reefdvr27: yes you are correct... but that is assuming after you have everything properly setup you shouldnt adjust it or have to adjust it.

I'm trying to make sure I get to that point
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post #27 of 34 Old 02-22-2012, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nintari View Post

Reefdvr27: yes you are correct... but that is assuming after you have everything properly setup you shouldnt adjust it or have to adjust it.

I'm trying to make sure I get to that point

Me to!
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post #28 of 34 Old 02-22-2012, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

I think that ship sailed months ago. The analog RS SPL meter is nowhere to be found, as far as I can tell.

Buy the Aperion one. Same thing. $29 shipped

http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...43,38,146.aspx

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post #29 of 34 Old 02-22-2012, 08:34 AM
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I have dual pluses and have each one individually set to 75db on the meter with 0db on receiver at the listening position. And then after Audyssey Mult EQ I set the subs to +2db on the receiver. I have not had any port chuffing yet. I run both in ME mode.

Shawn
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post #30 of 34 Old 02-22-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by its phillip View Post

Buy the Aperion one. Same thing. $29 shipped

http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...43,38,146.aspx

Whoa, neat! Thanks.

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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