Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 112 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3331 of 3551 Old 05-17-2016, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi-chi View Post
That's an attack?
Yes. I'm sure that's how most people perceived it.

Anyway, once again I recommend you discuss how to setup for comparison in your other thread since you already have it.
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Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #3332 of 3551 Old 05-18-2016, 11:30 AM
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I don't recall if this thread can discuss sale prices on budget subs, but mods, if I'm transgressing you know what to do:

The Monoprice 9723 (Wirecutter's recent pick for best sub under $300) is on sale for $91.80.

Just FYI.

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post #3333 of 3551 Old 05-18-2016, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Your wording was a bit sharp, but you are free to post your comments and opinions in this thread. I only ask that people remain civil about it.

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post #3334 of 3551 Old 05-18-2016, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post
I don't recall if this thread can discuss sale prices on budget subs, but mods, if I'm transgressing you know what to do:

The Monoprice 9723 (Wirecutter's recent pick for best sub under $300) is on sale for $91.80.

Just FYI.
Posting sale prices is not only allowed, it's encouraged. Post away!

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post #3335 of 3551 Old 05-19-2016, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Your wording was a bit sharp, but you are free to post your comments and opinions in this thread. I only ask that people remain civil about it.
I didn't think it was sharp or offensive, but if it offended anyone I apologize. It is just my personal opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
Perhaps you had a defective unit, but the measurements don't lie. Seems that Monoprice sub offers some good performance, and given it's cost, it's hard to beat that value.
I own a pair of Monoprice towers that are phenomenal! They exceeded my expectations by a long shot so I am not bashing Monoprice at all. Just stating facts on this particular sub that I based on the premise of a great review and how awesome my towers are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Also I'll note that the reviewer is VERY well respected -- Brent Butterworth is one of the most well known subwoofer reviewers out there (the Wirecutter website seems to make an effort to recruit top people to write their "best XXX" articles). You can read his creds in the "Why you should trust me" section.

Now obviously a defective unit cannot be excused, but I don't think the article was "fixed" or that Brent is lying in his measurements or the subjective reviews of the panelists.

All that said, I have no personal stake in this, I've not heard most of those subs so understand that I was just sharing. Don't shoot the messenger

It definitely would be interesting to throw in some of the other contenders popular in this thread such as the nicer BIC subs, the Polk PSW-505, some Klipsch options, etc.
Please see this thread. I am not alone in this one. List of budget subwoofers ($300 and less)

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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Dude, I read your other thread, and you are just now learning how to properly calibrate your sub. Instead of assuming that the review was "fixed," perhaps you might want to troubleshoot and see if part or all of your problem might be a setup issue? For instance, subs do sound better when properly calibrated with the receiver. A poorly shielded cable next to a power source could cause hum. Etc.

And even if it is not a setup issue, as I already said, I skimmed through ALL of the reviews at Monoprice, and it's a very small percentage of people indicating there is a problem. Could be Monoprice sold 1000 of these subs, and you were one of the unfortunate ten or fifteen to get a bad one. That happens with budget equipment, where you know there are likely going to be a small percentage of bad apples when the products are mass produced cheap like that. I'm sure they don't test each individual product as it comes off the line during manufacturing when $100 subwoofers are built.

This doesn't mean that no one here is unsympathetic. But you are jumping to some conclusions here.
And just for the record, despite all the reviews you read I think you may have missed this thread. You kind of badgered and bashed me for my opinion and I assume that is since I am new, but the point remains.. List of budget subwoofers ($300 and less) feel free to also do the same for anyone who also disagreed with that review.


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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
I wouldnt waste my time. If its a crap sub its a crap sub. Return it.
You have a point. I was really trying to also prove a point but base it on data and facts to help others. But it appears that doing that here some arent going to believe you (because of post count or credentials) or aren't even interested in hearing opinions kind of does make it pointless. But I hope anyone who is going to spend their hard earned money like myself at least gets as much honest information as possible and not just some possibly biased reviews. I wanted to learn and educate in doing a comparison myself but you're right no need to waste time.

Last edited by chi-chi; 05-19-2016 at 12:01 PM.
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post #3336 of 3551 Old 05-19-2016, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by chi-chi View Post
And just for the record, despite all the reviews you read I think you may have missed this thread. You kind of badgered and bashed me for my opinion and I assume that is since I am new . . . .
People just learning about subs come on this forum all the time complaining about how their sub doesn't sound good, and it turns out it's some configuration problem that they didn't consider. And then if a speaker or sub comparison is not setup right, it can bias the listening test one way or the other.

Now we know Brent Butterworth knows how to do a subwoofer calibration and how to setup comparison tests. Most of us have read at least ten or twenty of his reviews. Now if you want to learn how to do it, too, that's great. That's why I suggested go revive your thread and get people to help you do it. Simply insisting "it's my opinion" is not the same as knowing how to do the comparisons. Work through the methodology, and then people will be more interested in what your results are.

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post #3337 of 3551 Old 05-20-2016, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
People just learning about subs come on this forum all the time complaining about how their sub doesn't sound good, and it turns out it's some configuration problem that they didn't consider. And then if a speaker or sub comparison is not setup right, it can bias the listening test one way or the other.

Now we know Brent Butterworth knows how to do a subwoofer calibration and how to setup comparison tests. Most of us have read at least ten or twenty of his reviews. Now if you want to learn how to do it, too, that's great. That's why I suggested go revive your thread and get people to help you do it. Simply insisting "it's my opinion" is not the same as knowing how to do the comparisons. Work through the methodology, and then people will be more interested in what your results are.
Let's be clear, I am not the person you referring to and I know how to calibrate a sub. There is more than one way to do that which I am sure you know since you do know everything which is why I wanted to compare the subs your way 1) considering you've never even heard it and are going off of something you read online (regardless of who wrote it) and 2) to educate others with proof so they don't make a mistake when other options are available. So you can keep trying to belittle me, but let's be very clear if your issue is that since I feel the article was fixed fine no need to act high and mighty. Unless you have heard the subs, did some research on the subs and aren't just going off of an article online please tell me how you know it's the king of budget subwoofers? That's rhetorical btw. Nothing you've said has been helpful or even useful to anyone besides your ego. At least I wanted to help others in making an educated purchase by providing another (unbiased) review. You on the other hand clearly had no point other than to down talk, otherwise you would have given some suggestions which you have yet to do. Sensational.

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post #3338 of 3551 Old 05-20-2016, 11:48 PM
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Why don't you guys take this argument to private messaging. Time to give it a rest, at least publicly.
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post #3339 of 3551 Old 05-21-2016, 11:40 AM
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post #3340 of 3551 Old 05-22-2016, 08:51 AM
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Bedroom music budget sub

I'm looking for a budget sub for my bedroom music system. Currently I have a Lepai 2020 for the amp and a pair of Boston Acoustic A25 speakers and I'm looking for some more bass response. I'd prefer to keep it under $200 for now (though give me a really really good reason to expand my budget and I just might). My room is 11x11x8. I don't need anything super loud, just something musical that I can listen to while working at my desk. I've just graduated and would like a smaller footprint so that I can more easily move it if needed.

I'm considering the Martin Logan Dynamo 300 at the moment or JBL ES150PBK or Energy ESW-C8. What do you guys think about these choices? Are there other optionss that you think I should consider?
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post #3341 of 3551 Old 05-22-2016, 09:24 AM
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Jamo J-12-DA 12" is $179 after rebate at Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16886427002 (also available in white). 33 lbs, so not too big.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #3342 of 3551 Old 05-22-2016, 10:25 AM
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Is there any justification for getting an inexpensive sub ($300) for the LFE channel when one's main speakers (powered towers) can and do play deeper (-3dB@25Hz) than the sub probably will?

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post #3343 of 3551 Old 05-22-2016, 10:47 AM
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Yes.

1) Speakers will likely have high distortion below their tuning point--their lower bass output. So the fact that a speaker may go to 25hz does not mean the output is clean.

2) AVRs tend to perform better when not having to produce subwoofer bass as well.

3) The location of the speakers may not be the best place for bass output in your room, whereas you may be able locate the sub in a better spot.

4) Unless you have a small room and/or listen at low volumes, it is unlikely that your speakers will have enough SPL output for dynamics at louder volumes. Smaller bass drivers in your speakers when pushed near their limits will also likely have higher distortion compared to a larger sub driver. One factor of driver displacement is the area driver, so two 6.5" bass drivers in speaker, for example, do not have as much area for displacement as a 12" subwoofer driver.

5) Subwoofer drivers are optimized for mid bass and sub bass, whereas your speaker bass drivers are likely optimized for a much wider range--one tool is better designed for the specific job.

6) No speaker will have good 20hz extension. If you want to take your setup to the next level for HT, save for a good sub that does.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #3344 of 3551 Old 05-22-2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GLBright View Post
Is there any justification for getting an inexpensive sub ($300) for the LFE channel when one's main speakers (powered towers) can and do play deeper (-3dB@25Hz) than the sub probably will?
If you have mains that nice dont get a cheap sub.
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post #3345 of 3551 Old 05-22-2016, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nike t View Post
I'm looking for a budget sub for my bedroom music system. Currently I have a Lepai 2020 for the amp and a pair of Boston Acoustic A25 speakers and I'm looking for some more bass response. I'd prefer to keep it under $200 for now (though give me a really really good reason to expand my budget and I just might). My room is 11x11x8. I don't need anything super loud, just something musical that I can listen to while working at my desk. I've just graduated and would like a smaller footprint so that I can more easily move it if needed.

I'm considering the Martin Logan Dynamo 300 at the moment or JBL ES150PBK or Energy ESW-C8. What do you guys think about these choices? Are there other optionss that you think I should consider?
Martin Logan Dynamo 300 is a good music sub. It's inexpensive, reasonably sized, and doesn't try to do too much. You'll get clean, tight, bass within it's limits. In a small room, you will get some reinforcement of the lower octave, making this a good choice.

Larger subs in this price range tend towards sloppy bass. You really need to get into the $500 area to get good clean bass in that lowest octave.

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post #3346 of 3551 Old 05-22-2016, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Jamo J-12-DA 12" is $179 after rebate at Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16886427002 (also available in white). 33 lbs, so not too big.
Is a 12" sub overkill for a PC system? I actually already have Dayton Sub-1200 that is sitting around that I could move into my room, but I wasn't completely sure how well it would deal with music (as opposed to HT, which isn't the purpose of this system) vs the ML Dynamo 300 or other subs (like the one you linked)

Edit: Also how do people feel about the Outlaw M8, is it worth the extra cash?

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post #3347 of 3551 Old 05-22-2016, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by nike t View Post
Is a 12" sub overkill for a PC system?
Certainly not. Try it.
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post #3348 of 3551 Old 05-23-2016, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Jamo J-12-DA 12" is $179 after rebate at Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16886427002 (also available in white). 33 lbs, so not too big.
So in your opinion is the Jamo J-12 better than the Klipsch Sub-12HG? It is currently on sale for the same price and I am Looking for a budget sub for an auxiliary space that is better than the Dayton sub-1200 (which I think is great btw but would like to move up a little, and still stay under $200) thanks in advance. Anyone with experience chime in.

Mainly for HT use not much music only on occasion.
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post #3349 of 3551 Old 05-23-2016, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nike t View Post
Is a 12" sub overkill for a PC system? I actually already have Dayton Sub-1200 that is sitting around that I could move into my room, but I wasn't completely sure how well it would deal with music (as opposed to HT, which isn't the purpose of this system) vs the ML Dynamo 300 or other subs (like the one you linked)

Edit: Also how do people feel about the Outlaw M8, is it worth the extra cash?
If you already have the 1200, use it. You are going to dial in the gain (volume) and set the crossover to integrate it. Doesn't matter that it is 12".

The Outlaw is generally thought to be a good 8" ported sub for the money. But since you have the Dayton, try it and see if it fits your space and does what you need
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post #3350 of 3551 Old 05-23-2016, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi-chi View Post
So in your opinion is the Jamo J-12 better than the Klipsch Sub-12HG? It is currently on sale for the same price and I am Looking for a budget sub for an auxiliary space that is better than the Dayton sub-1200 (which I think is great btw but would like to move up a little, and still stay under $200) thanks in advance. Anyone with experience chime in.

Mainly for HT use not much music only on occasion.
Klipsch sub-12hg is $169 right now on ebay from newegg. It will be better than the Dayton sub-1200, but if you already have the Dayton you might just stick with it unless you have another use for it.
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post #3351 of 3551 Old 05-23-2016, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by chi-chi View Post
So in your opinion is the Jamo J-12 better than the Klipsch Sub-12HG?
Seems unlikely.
Jamo is rated to 27Hz and 200/400 watts.
Klipsch is 24Hz and 300/650.
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post #3352 of 3551 Old 05-23-2016, 03:58 PM
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Yeah, can't see how the Jamo J12 would even be as good, let alone better than the Klipsch sub-12. The J112 is better, but it was a much more expensive sub to begin with.
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post #3353 of 3551 Old 05-27-2016, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
Yeah, can't see how the Jamo J12 would even be as good, let alone better than the Klipsch sub-12. The J112 is better, but it was a much more expensive sub to begin with.
I jumped on the Sub-12HG deal. Should arrive tomorrow.

I've got a 34x25x8ft living/dining/kitchen area to fill (6800+ ft^3, yikes!). After lots of reading I was really tempted to order a PB-1000, but realized that I'd probably never be able to justify buying a (likely needed) second unit. As it is, $338 for dual Sub-12HGs seemed like a reasonably cost effective way to go. Especially given the challenges I'd face with very low frequencies in that room even with an SVS.

I'm almost slightly embarrassed to admit that I'm still using my old Acoustic Research S108PS I got on ebay for ~$80 10 years ago right now. The poor little thing has been pulling through as best it can. It actually sounds pretty good in the 40-50Hz range. Quite excited to hear the dual Sub-12HGs though!

FYI, there's a good thread on the Sub-12 from back in 2009 where Hughman took some measurements and determined that the port is tuned at around 30Hz:

SVS PB10-NSD vs Klipsch Sub-12
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post #3354 of 3551 Old 07-18-2016, 09:01 AM
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1) any one has experience in refurbs?
- Harman SB26 for$250
- jbl 400 for $250. From Harman site.

2) I got yamaha Ats-1050 sound bar. $190 Costco.

If #1 is not that great option, I want to add a sub to #2.

I know it's not perfect. I am no audiophile either. But living on small apmt and Mrs not liking big sound and budget of <$300 to improve tv sound put me in a tight corner. I will sit in about 8 feet from my lg 49 4k tv. So only need clear, tight sounding experience in small volume (infant baby@neighbour house).

I have gone through few threads and spent couple hours of reading. Now please suggest your opinion on #1 ,#2. Also help choosing a budget sub.

Current budget sub I have on list
1. Dayton 800
2. Polk psw-10
3. Yamaha 8"
4. Jbl sb150
5. Klipsch 10

Yamaha
* YST-SW215
* YST-SW216

Well I just listed few based on review on this site. If you have better suggestion please do so.

I am a simple user want small clutter free setup to improve tv sound under budget.
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post #3355 of 3551 Old 07-18-2016, 09:06 AM
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for <$300 look at the psw505 and sub12hg

when they go on sale they are usually $200 or under

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post #3356 of 3551 Old 07-18-2016, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mdram View Post
for <$300 look at the psw505 and sub12hg

when they go on sale they are usually $200 or under
Thanks. Any advice between#1&#2?
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post #3357 of 3551 Old 07-18-2016, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Selvaspk View Post
Thanks. Any advice between#1&#2?

your 1 and 2?
i know nothing about sound bars, actually i dislike the appearance of them.
a receiver and 2.1 or 3.1 would be my option

but for under 300 total that really is asking alot
2.0 may be doable if you find things on sale or use refurbs

http://www.accessories4less.com has refurb soundbars, some with subs

TV- Samsung 55" UHD (UN55JU6500FXZA)
service - directv
Receiver - Denon AVR-X2100W,
Speakers -F L/R - Infinity Primus P363, C - Infinity Primus PC351
Sub - Klipsch Sub-12HG
(slow build out)
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post #3358 of 3551 Old 07-20-2016, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdram View Post
your 1 and 2?
i know nothing about sound bars, actually i dislike the appearance of them.
a receiver and 2.1 or 3.1 would be my option

but for under 300 total that really is asking alot
2.0 may be doable if you find things on sale or use refurbs

http://www.accessories4less.com has refurb soundbars, some with subs
Thanks. I was asking about sub.
Went to bb today to check and got back with jbl arena s10 for $160 (open box and manager gave a deal)

While I have no idea on this subwoofer, it's kinda big. Ordered an compact yamaha sub to to fit inside cabinet. But got this to compare.

Heard it, it's good. But I never owned property sub, so don't know good vs best vs okay. But it is big and I kept 20℅ volume. Anyone got this arena sub experience? Should I keep it?
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post #3359 of 3551 Old 07-20-2016, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selvaspk View Post
Thanks. I was asking about sub.
Went to bb today to check and got back with jbl arena s10 for $160 (open box and manager gave a deal)

While I have no idea on this subwoofer, it's kinda big. Ordered an compact yamaha sub to to fit inside cabinet. But got this to compare.

Heard it, it's good. But I never owned property sub, so don't know good vs best vs okay. But it is big and I kept 20℅ volume. Anyone got this arena sub experience? Should I keep it?
If this is correct what I'm reading, the JBL Arena sub is awful. 100wRMS/200w Peak and rated down to only 41Hz. I can see why it was returned if it retails for $300. A sub that can't even deliver below 40Hz is more of a mid bass module, IMO.
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post #3360 of 3551 Old 07-20-2016, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selvaspk View Post
Thanks. I was asking about sub.
Went to bb today to check and got back with jbl arena s10 for $160 (open box and manager gave a deal)

While I have no idea on this subwoofer, it's kinda big. Ordered an compact yamaha sub to to fit inside cabinet. But got this to compare.

Heard it, it's good. But I never owned property sub, so don't know good vs best vs okay. But it is big and I kept 20℅ volume. Anyone got this arena sub experience? Should I keep it?
If you like the JBL keep it. If not you can do better for another $30-$40 but it will likely be even bigger.
Dont know exactly what you mean but its not a good idea to put a sub inside a cabinet.
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