Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3035 Old 12-03-2012, 09:54 AM
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Yes the Denon 1713 has Audyssey and I will use at least 6 positions to set up. If it is not working well I can run it again in the other position. And if that's not adequate I will try the PSW10 sub.
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post #452 of 3035 Old 12-03-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DGCanuck View Post

Yes the Denon 1713 has Audyssey and I will use at least 6 positions to set up. If it is not working well I can run it again in the other position. And if that's not adequate I will try the PSW10 sub.
Good luck with that. You'd be going backwards. Get a Bic F12 for a lot more bass and save $25 over the 111.

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post #453 of 3035 Old 12-03-2012, 03:45 PM
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I hear yah but this is for a very small room, mostly TV watching where the good wife has a say about decor and stuff. Now my man cave home theater is different and that's where the PSW10 came from but will be replaced by........maybe a Bic F12!!!?? So this is part of my cunning plan;)
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post #454 of 3035 Old 12-03-2012, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by vincedea View Post

The only problem I see with the dynamo is it doesnt have high level speaker outputs or inputs as the amp that I have (emotiva mini xa100) does not have a Line in for the subwoofer. What it does have are the RCA outputs for sub but they are fixed value, and I was told that I wouldnt be able to control the volume of the sub with the amp.
So if I were to just go ahead and used the RCA outputs for the sub, what would be the cons? and what if I got a sub that has high level speaker outputs, would there be any difference in teh sound quality?
The Dynamo 300 manual states
"Speaker Level Input Signal Connection (figure 4):
Connect the left and right outputs of your amplifier to the subwoofer’s left and right 'Speaker Level Input' binding posts. Use quality speaker cable.
If your amplifier only has one set of outputs you may connect your amplifier to your speakers as normal and run an additional set of cables from your speakers to the subwoofer’s 'Speaker Level Input' binding posts.
It is also possible to connect the left and right outputs of your amp to the left and right 'Speaker Level Input' of the subwoofer and run additional cables from your subwoofer to the speakers." Isnt this what you need? I'm considering connecting to my Fiio A1 this way.
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post #455 of 3035 Old 12-03-2012, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DGCanuck View Post

I hear yah but this is for a very small room, mostly TV watching where the good wife has a say about decor and stuff. Now my man cave home theater is different and that's where the PSW10 came from but will be replaced by........maybe a Bic F12!!!?? So this is part of my cunning plan;)
Well, aren't you clever! Hope she doesn't read these forums.eek.gif

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post #456 of 3035 Old 12-06-2012, 12:20 AM
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OK so I figured I should report on results. The 5 speaker PolkAudio TL250s and the PSW111 worked out better than I expected. The PSW111 in the small room is precise and accurate in movie and music modes at 50% volume levels. I tested with Avatar and a few other bluerays and it is really very good. It's much better than the PSW10 so I will entertain a Bic or something else for the man cave after Christmas. Bottom line is I am pleasantly suprised.
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post #457 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 12:04 AM
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Hi, I made my own thread for this but it was also suggested that I ask here.

I have a Yamaha RX-2700 receiver, three Canton Karat CM4s up front, two satellites from a cheap Pioneer HTIB in the back. My current sub is a Velodyne HGS10BG, but the amp is dead, so the sub out from the Yamaha goes to a Pioneer SX-255R stereo receiver, and from the speaker outputs of that directly to the Velodyne speaker.

Not sure on room measurements; I can't find the tape measure, whoops. Ceiling is 92" or 96". Here is a terrible diagram of the basement with guesses as to dimensions (sofa is 10' back from a 10' wide 2.35 screen):



My sub before this one was the one that came with the HTIB, which was a piece of plastic that weighed maybe 2lb.

What I am looking for is a sub that will be a hopefully dramatic upgrade from the current Onkyo receiver / Velodyne speaker combo. Use is basically 100% movies and games. I'm not some serious audiophile obviously, but I would like something that is an immediately noticeable upgrade from the current setup and won't have me wishing I'd gotten something better a year down the line.

Current contenders as best I can determine and best prices I might be able to get them at:
  • Polk PSW505 @ 190
  • BiC F12 @ < 200
  • PA-120 @ 230
  • BiC VK-12 @ 285
  • Klipsch RW-12d @ 300 if another Newegg deal pops up
  • BiC PL-200 @ < $330, not sure on what actual price would be
  • PA-150 @ 350

Next year I will be moving. If I had to guess, I think the theater area will likely be smaller.
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post #458 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 03:07 AM
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PA-150. Thats a pretty good size space and an open stairwell to boot. I know that you're leary about this one. Have you had the chance to look at the PA-150 thread yet?

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post #459 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

PA-150. Thats a pretty good size space and an open stairwell to boot.

+1

Even the PA-150 will probably struggle in a room that size, but for sure the rest of your choices will be simply overwhelmed by it.

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post #460 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

PA-150. Thats a pretty good size space and an open stairwell to boot. I know that you're leary about this one. Have you had the chance to look at the PA-150 thread yet?

I did check out that thread. Pretty short, though, with not much in the way of comparisons to others. Everyone seems happy though.
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+1
Even the PA-150 will probably struggle in a room that size, but for sure the rest of your choices will be simply overwhelmed by it.

Well, if that's what it will take to sound great, I'll do it. I'm still a little hesitant, because it's not like I feel even my jury-rigged Velodyne is wildly inadequate or anything; just that it's kind of a messy system (I want to retire the Pioneer I'm using to power it) and it kind of lacks clarity or something. When I crank up something like Tron: Legacy, it still sounds pretty rockin' to me, just maybe kind of muddy.

The other thing is like I said, if I move in 7-8 months to a smaller space, would one of the cheaper ones suit me as well or even better? For example, what might I expect to notice from the Klipsch vs the PA-150 in my current space, and how would they compare in a smaller room?

Thanks for the help, much appreciated.

edit: As if to tempt me, the Klipsch just got the $300 promo code again.

edit2: How much real-world difference, to a layman, is there between the PA-150 and PA-120? Aside from the significant price difference, the size of the 150 is a mild concern.

edit3: My current sub speaker is actually a Velodyne 10", not 12" as I had originally posted.

edit4: I should add that a huge plus for the Klipsch is that it's Newegg, and they've extended their normal policy so you can return for refund up to Jan 31 with no restocking fee. AcousticSoundDesign (PA-150) has a 7-day return policy FOR CREDIT, which is terrible, especially since you're also out the cost of shipping a 90lb sub back to them. And even if you cancel an order before it ships, you still have a 4% "cancellation fee".
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post #461 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 09:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post

edit: As if to tempt me, the Klipsch just got the $300 promo code again.

"O'Brother Where Art Thou?" The Sirens (video length: 03:00)

Go to sleep little baaaby, Klipsch is calling you.
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post #462 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Well, if that's what it will take to sound great, I'll do it. I'm still a little hesitant, because it's not like I feel even my jury-rigged Velodyne is wildly inadequate or anything; just that it's kind of a messy system (I want to retire the Pioneer I'm using to power it) and it kind of lacks clarity or something. When I crank up something like Tron: Legacy, it still sounds pretty rockin' to me, just maybe kind of muddy.

I'll make a prediction; you will realize just how inadequate that cobbled together 10" Velo is once you have a better sub in place. wink.gif

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The other thing is like I said, if I move in 7-8 months to a smaller space, would one of the cheaper ones suit me as well or even better? For example, what might I expect to notice from the Klipsch vs the PA-150 in my current space, and how would they compare in a smaller room?

Unless your next HT room is the size of a closet you probably won't regret having a subwoofer that is capable.

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post #463 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 09:46 AM
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I am relocating a sub-woofer and looking for a 15 foot cable. What is recommended for a good one and source other than Monster which is crazy pricy here?
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post #464 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 09:54 AM
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I am relocating a sub-woofer and looking for a 15 foot cable. What is recommended for a good one and source other than Monster which is crazy pricy here?

monoprice.com

Good selection, fine quality with excellent prices. They'll work as well as any monster cable.

Denon AVR-4520CI
Carver Amazing Originals/ Carver Amazing Silvers
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Projector: BenQ W1070
Some audio history:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3
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post #465 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 09:59 AM
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Thanks, could you give me the shielded versus unshielded or a good spec for this type of cable?
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post #466 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 10:02 AM
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Thanks, could you give me the shielded versus unshielded or a good spec for this type of cable?

Double shielded.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=2682&seq=1&format=2

Denon AVR-4520CI
Carver Amazing Originals/ Carver Amazing Silvers
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Projector: BenQ W1070
Some audio history:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3
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post #467 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 10:04 AM
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Sorry, that was a 12 ft.
Here's a 15 ft.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=6306&seq=1&format=2

Denon AVR-4520CI
Carver Amazing Originals/ Carver Amazing Silvers
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Projector: BenQ W1070
Some audio history:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3
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Originally Posted by DGCanuck View Post

Thanks, could you give me the shielded versus unshielded or a good spec for this type of cable?

Specs: Gold plated RCA plug ends, sufficient length to make the connection and shielded to prevent EMI/RMI.

(XStanleyX beat me. Dag-nab-it!)
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post #469 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 10:12 AM
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neener neener biggrin.gif

Denon AVR-4520CI
Carver Amazing Originals/ Carver Amazing Silvers
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Projector: BenQ W1070
Some audio history:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3
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post #470 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 10:20 AM
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Wow, thanks guys. The similar length Monster or Rocketfish cable here is $26 to $39:eek:
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Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

neener neener biggrin.gif

biggrin.gif

LOL

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Originally Posted by DGCanuck View Post

Wow, thanks guys. The similar length Monster or Rocketfish cable here is $26 to $39:eek:

biggrin.gif
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post #472 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 10:58 AM
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What about one with "Nitrogen Injected Foamed Polyetylene Dielectric"? Thats what mine says along with double shielded, high performance and gold connectors. Is the nitrogen thing a good thing or just sound good?

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post #473 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 11:16 AM
 
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What about one with "Nitrogen Injected Foamed Polyetylene Dielectric"? Thats what mine says along with double shielded, high performance and gold connectors. Is the nitrogen thing a good thing or just sound good?

I hear that it helps reduce capacitance in the same fashion a Teflon coating reduces inductance. These types of questions are way above my pay-grade.
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post #474 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 11:30 AM
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Is the nitrogen...a good thing
It's a major component in snake oil, as is Teflon.

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post #475 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 11:38 AM
 
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confused.gif And the tests show measurably lower inductance in Teflon coated cables. It's testable for, which means it's not snake oil.

And an unrelated add, Teflon coated wires meet NEC plenum regs.
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post #476 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I did check out that thread. Pretty short, though, with not much in the way of comparisons to others. Everyone seems happy though.
Well, if that's what it will take to sound great, I'll do it. I'm still a little hesitant, because it's not like I feel even my jury-rigged Velodyne is wildly inadequate or anything; just that it's kind of a messy system (I want to retire the Pioneer I'm using to power it) and it kind of lacks clarity or something. When I crank up something like Tron: Legacy, it still sounds pretty rockin' to me, just maybe kind of muddy.
The other thing is like I said, if I move in 7-8 months to a smaller space, would one of the cheaper ones suit me as well or even better? For example, what might I expect to notice from the Klipsch vs the PA-150 in my current space, and how would they compare in a smaller room?
Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
edit: As if to tempt me, the Klipsch just got the $300 promo code again.
edit2: How much real-world difference, to a layman, is there between the PA-150 and PA-120? Aside from the significant price difference, the size of the 150 is a mild concern.
edit3: My current sub speaker is actually a Velodyne 10", not 12" as I had originally posted.
edit4: I should add that a huge plus for the Klipsch is that it's Newegg, and they've extended their normal policy so you can return for refund up to Jan 31 with no restocking fee. AcousticSoundDesign (PA-150) has a 7-day return policy FOR CREDIT, which is terrible, especially since you're also out the cost of shipping a 90lb sub back to them. And even if you cancel an order before it ships, you still have a 4% "cancellation fee".

The Klipsch is sold out. I would focus on the PA-150. As far as comparions, you can see how it stacks up here:
http://www.data-bass.com/systems

As is expected for a budget sub, not much output below 25hz, but of all the budget subs, it most likely has the most output in the 40-80hz range where most bass resides in movies. With the size of your room, near-field placement should help and it does look like you are sitting towards the middle of the room which is the worst spot since there is a bass null there. Aside from placing the sub as close to the couch as you can, I would try corner loading it and also try moving the couch forward some so you are out of that nasty null spot. To understand more about boundary cancelations and room modes this is a great chart:

http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/CancellationMode.htm
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post #477 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 12:09 PM
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Unfortunately I can't do much about couch position since viewing distance to the projector screen is paramount. Can't really put the sub on the screen wall anyway since my screen starts only 15" off the floor. Maybe to the right of the screen there could be some room. Currently my little sub is right behind the sofa.

Klipsch is back in stock. Can you give me an idea what I could actually expect as far as what real-world difference I would hear between it and the 150? If the 150 were at Amazon or Newegg for $350 I would probably get it and stop thinking about it, but the dealer policies plus the size are making me hesitate and lean toward the Klipsch.
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Unfortunately I can't do much about couch position since viewing distance to the projector screen is paramount. Can't really put the sub on the screen wall anyway since my screen starts only 15" off the floor. Maybe to the right of the screen there could be some room. Currently my little sub is right behind the sofa.
Klipsch is back in stock. Can you give me an idea what I could actually expect as far as what real-world difference I would hear between it and the 150? If the 150 were at Amazon or Newegg for $350 I would probably get it and stop thinking about it, but the dealer policies plus the size are making me hesitate and lean toward the Klipsch.
Actually right behind the sofa could work very well. It won't fill the room. You may not hear it much anywhere else but as long as your on the sofa it would be ok. Put the cone about 3" away facing the sofa and you might be fine. Especially if there is a wall to the right where the stairwell is. I still recommend the 150 but you could get by with the RW if it makes you more comfortable. You would not notice as much of a difference between the 2 with it placed that close. In fact the difference may not even be worth the extra $150.

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post #479 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It's a major component in snake oil, as is Teflon.
biggrin.gif Enough said. Thx Yoda.

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post #480 of 3035 Old 12-07-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Unfortunately I can't do much about couch position since viewing distance to the projector screen is paramount. Can't really put the sub on the screen wall anyway since my screen starts only 15" off the floor. Maybe to the right of the screen there could be some room. Currently my little sub is right behind the sofa.
Klipsch is back in stock. Can you give me an idea what I could actually expect as far as what real-world difference I would hear between it and the 150? If the 150 were at Amazon or Newegg for $350 I would probably get it and stop thinking about it, but the dealer policies plus the size are making me hesitate and lean toward the Klipsch.

Ricci has not tested the Klipsch, but other members have done some in-room measuring. I think the PA-150 will be a stronger sub 40hz and up (per the site referenced above and PA-150 can hang with some expensive subs 40-80hz), but the Klipsch most likely will extend a little lower past 40hz. Most bass happens in the above 20hz, so you are most likely looking at tradeoffs. With your room size, I am inclined to say the PA-150 might be better suited since it will most likely have more output.

That said, you need to be comfortable with the purchase. I purchased mine from the dealer referenced above and it was a smooth transaction and I have owned the sub for over a year with no issues. Newegg may charge you return shipping, so you may want to ask but I buy lots of stuff from them and have had solid customer service.

As far as placement of the sub can you fit either of these behind the couch?
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