Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 2962 Old 03-21-2012, 08:49 AM
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So I ended up pulling the trigger on the MLT-2s!! I'm going to go with the included sub for a couple of weeks and then upgrade to the Energy S-10.3. I ordered the Energy's but Amazon was stating a delivery date of April 12th which was just too long to wait.

Jim, thanks for all your help! It is greatly appreciated and sorry for hijacking your thread but it was of great help since I'll still end up with the Energy sub in the end.
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post #32 of 2962 Old 03-21-2012, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by digitalnofx View Post

Jim, thanks for all your help! It is greatly appreciated and sorry for hijacking your thread but it was of great help since I'll still end up with the Energy sub in the end.

Congrats on your purchase!

I'll let the hijack slide if you promise to come back and post some comments about the Energy. That way you'll be contributing something on topic.

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post #33 of 2962 Old 03-21-2012, 10:26 AM
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Congrats on your purchase!

I'll let the hijack slide if you promise to come back and post some comments about the Energy. That way you'll be contributing something on topic.

Thanks! and I promise I will, I'll let it break in first and then give my impressions for everyone!
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post #34 of 2962 Old 04-06-2012, 09:27 AM
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Newegg put the Energy ESW-C10 on sale for $149 after promo code (EMCNFND56) just for this weekend. Seems like a pretty good budget deal for anyone wanting a 10".

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post #35 of 2962 Old 04-06-2012, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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That is a good deal on a nice sub.

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post #36 of 2962 Old 04-07-2012, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Newegg put the Energy ESW-C10 on sale for $149 after promo code (EMCNFND56) just for this weekend. Seems like a pretty good budget deal for anyone wanting a 10".

Especially good deal considering that Best Buy sells the Energy ESW-C10 for $430
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post #37 of 2962 Old 04-08-2012, 02:50 AM
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Is this Energy sub better than let's say a Bic America F12 or a Dayton 1200 sub? The Dayton is around $99 and the Bic is about the same as the Energy if not a bit more...

out of the three how would you rate them in order?
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post #38 of 2962 Old 04-17-2012, 10:23 AM
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Jim or anyone else who might have an idea,

I tried searching, and didn't find anything helpful, except for a bunch of people bashing Bose. I am hoping you can help. I own a Bose Accoustmess 15, series 2 system, driven by a Yamaha rx-v371. I use this only for movie/tv watching, and as sad as it may be, I am happy with them. I have also grown up around some very high end equipment owned by my father, and I can tell you for sure that I did not inherit his audiophile hearing.

What I would like, is to either:

1. replace the existing Accoustimass base module
2. add an additional sub that would compliment the current set up

I am trying to spend around $200. The goal is to gain a little more LFE. Is there a sub that you feel would either compliment or replace the bose for around that price?
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post #39 of 2962 Old 04-17-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbreen76 View Post

Jim or anyone else who might have an idea,

I tried searching, and didn't find anything helpful, except for a bunch of people bashing Bose. I am hoping you can help. I own a Bose Accoustmess 15, series 2 system, driven by a Yamaha rx-v371. I use this only for movie/tv watching, and as sad as it may be, I am happy with them. I have also grown up around some very high end equipment owned by my father, and I can tell you for sure that I did not inherit his audiophile hearing.

What I would like, is to either:

1. replace the existing Accoustimass base module
2. add an additional sub that would compliment the current set up

I am trying to spend around $200. The goal is to gain a little more LFE. Is there a sub that you feel would either compliment or replace the bose for around that price?

no Bose bashing here, so no worries.

I'm thinking all you would need to do to add a sub is use a "Y" connector to the LFE out of your receiver. The signal is then split to each sub and voila, you added a sub. Plug the bass module to one end of the "Y" and the other sub (with a sub cable) to the other end and the "Y" in the LFE out of the receiver.

Although I'm suspecting that the use of a receiver for this system is as a processor as the base module probably does the amplification. The cubes are probably 3 to 4ohms so your current receiver wouldn't be able to drive them if the speakers were connected directly to the receiver.

I'm suspecting that when you connect the bass module to the LFE out of your Yamaha, the module bypasses the crossover of the receiver meaning even though you would set your receiver crossover at 80Hz, it wouldn't affect the module.

So in theory, if you use a "Y" adapter, you can set your receiver to 80hz and the receiver will send anything under 80Hz to it's LFE output but only your second sub will reproduce it as the module will ignore it and use it's own bass management.

As for the sub, a favorite in your price range is the Bic F12, I use to have 2 of them and they are very adequate. Without being insulting, it would eat the Acoustimass bass module for lunch. Jim did a review on the Pinnacle PS sub225 and the OSD PS10 and it was favorable as well.

That's to the best of my knowledge. Perhaps someone with more experience on your system would care to chime in.

cheers


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post #40 of 2962 Old 04-17-2012, 04:34 PM
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Jim, FYI, both the Pinnacle and the OSD link at the beginning of the thread directs you to the OSD review.

cheers


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post #41 of 2962 Old 04-17-2012, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dtbreen76 View Post

JI own a Bose Accoustmess 15, series 2 system, driven by a Yamaha rx-v371. I use this only for movie/tv watching, and as sad as it may be, I am happy with them. I have also grown up around some very high end equipment owned by my father, and I can tell you for sure that I did not inherit his audiophile hearing.

What I would like, is to either:

1. replace the existing Accoustimass base module
2. add an additional sub that would compliment the current set up

I am trying to spend around $200. The goal is to gain a little more LFE. Is there a sub that you feel would either compliment or replace the bose for around that price?

Dual subs is often preferable, depending upon the size of your room and how many nulls there are. However, you should always try and use two of the same type of sub, otherwise level matching and balancing them becomes a tedious chore.

There's no indication of your room size though, which for a sub is a pretty critical component. How big is your room?

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post #42 of 2962 Old 04-17-2012, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

Jim, FYI, both the Pinnacle and the OSD link at the beginning of the thread directs you to the OSD review.

Holy crap, I totally missed that. Thanks for letting me know.

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post #43 of 2962 Old 04-17-2012, 06:31 PM
 
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From personal use, the Dayton Sub-1200 is the bang for your buck, budget sub deal that is available. Sounds REALLY good for both music AND movies. Literally shakes a 2 story house with how low it can go. Very pleased and impressed and highly recommended!
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post #44 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 04:27 AM
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Dual subs is often preferable, depending upon the size of your room and how many nulls there are. However, you should always try and use two of the same type of sub, otherwise level matching and balancing them becomes a tedious chore.

There's no indication of your room size though, which for a sub is a pretty critical component. How big is your room?

Thanks Jim. I am currently in a small carpeted room, however, I am in the middle of house hunting and will end up in a larger room, probably with carpet or hardwood. You already helped me a bunch. After I have purchased my house, then I will go sub shopping.
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post #45 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

no Bose bashing here, so no worries.

I'm thinking all you would need to do to add a sub is use a "Y" connector to the LFE out of your receiver. The signal is then split to each sub and voila, you added a sub. Plug the bass module to one end of the "Y" and the other sub (with a sub cable) to the other end and the "Y" in the LFE out of the receiver.

Although I'm suspecting that the use of a receiver for this system is as a processor as the base module probably does the amplification. The cubes are probably 3 to 4ohms so your current receiver wouldn't be able to drive them if the speakers were connected directly to the receiver.

I'm suspecting that when you connect the bass module to the LFE out of your Yamaha, the module bypasses the crossover of the receiver meaning even though you would set your receiver crossover at 80Hz, it wouldn't affect the module.

So in theory, if you use a "Y" adapter, you can set your receiver to 80hz and the receiver will send anything under 80Hz to it's LFE output but only your second sub will reproduce it as the module will ignore it and use it's own bass management.

As for the sub, a favorite in your price range is the Bic F12, I use to have 2 of them and they are very adequate. Without being insulting, it would eat the Acoustimass bass module for lunch. Jim did a review on the Pinnacle PS sub225 and the OSD PS10 and it was favorable as well.

That's to the best of my knowledge. Perhaps someone with more experience on your system would care to chime in.

cheers

This was very helpful, thank you. And yes, I am sure, as the bass module for the bose really is weak. I keep hearing about the Bic F12, so I think maybe that is the way to go. These are all "active" subs right? Meaning they have their own amp?
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post #46 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 05:25 AM
 
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Personally, I'd opt for the Dayton sub1200 over the Bic. IMO the Dayton sub120 was better than the Bic and the Dayton sub1200 is better than the sub120, so what does that tell you? The Dayton sub1200 is the new bargain sub available.

And the Bose bass module isn't weak. It is just right for what it was designed to do. Glad to see you call it what it is, a bass MODULE, and NOT a 'sub'. As such, it is not intended to be a sub, sound like a sub, act like a sub, but rather a normal 'woofer' that isn't designed to 'dig down deep'. Bose has its applications and seperates have thier application as well.
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post #47 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 05:30 AM
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Jim and others,

My friend has a large, tiled room, with a vaulted ceiling. He needs a sub. Primary use is HT/TV, but he may also listen to some music. He is using a Yamaha amp and Sony satellite speakers that are mounted up high (8' or so.)

I am wondering if the Bic V1220 is a good choice or perhaps a Yamaha? He is trying to stay around $200.

Room is 20'x24' with a ceiling that goes from 10' to 18'. Not sure how to calculate cf with a vaulted ceiling.

Appreciate all of your input. Thanks
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post #48 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbreen76 View Post

Jim and others,

My friend has a large, tiled room, with a vaulted ceiling. He needs a sub. Primary use is HT/TV, but he may also listen to some music. He is using a Yamaha amp and Sony satellite speakers that are mounted up high (8' or so.)

I am wondering if the Bic V1220 is a good choice or perhaps a Yamaha? He is trying to stay around $200.

Room is 20'x24' with a ceiling that goes from 10' to 18'. Not sure how to calculate cf with a vaulted ceiling.

Appreciate all of your input. Thanks

That's a huge room. I don't think that there is anything in that price range that will pressurize that room. The Premier Acoustic PA-150, or 2 Bic F12 or for Spicer010, 2 Dayton sub1200 () may do it but it's more than your friend's budget.

If your friend buys something in that price range, place it as close to the main listening position as possible.

cheers


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post #49 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

That's a huge room. I don't think that there is anything in that price range that will pressurize that room. The Premier Acoustic PA-150, or 2 Bic F12 or for Spicer010, 2 Dayton sub1200 () may do it but it's more than your friend's budget.

If your friend buys something in that price range, place it as close to the main listening position as possible.

cheers

Thanks. I can imagine that it won't be as effective as it would be in a normal sized room.
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post #50 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbreen76 View Post

My friend has a large, tiled room, with a vaulted ceiling. He needs a sub. Primary use is HT/TV, but he may also listen to some music. He is using a Yamaha amp and Sony satellite speakers that are mounted up high (8' or so.)

I am wondering if the Bic V1220 is a good choice or perhaps a Yamaha? He is trying to stay around $200.

Room is 20'x24' with a ceiling that goes from 10' to 18'. Not sure how to calculate cf with a vaulted ceiling.

Even if the room didn't have cathedral ceilings, and was only 10' tall for the entire 20'x24' space, it would be close to 5000 CF. A single $1000 sub is probably going to struggle in such an environment, let alone one $200 unit. Quite honestly, duals are really the best way to go. Two would also increase the output, resulting in additional headroom for loud/deep passages. Depending upon expectations he might find something like dual BIC F12's acceptable, but I suspect they may ultimately be overcome by that much volume. I wouldn't advise going with anything less.

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Even if the room didn't have cathedral ceilings, and was only 10' tall for the entire 20'x24' space, it would be close to 5000 CF. A single $1000 sub is probably going to struggle in such an environment, let alone one $200 unit. Quite honestly, duals are really the best way to go. Two would also increase the output, resulting in additional headroom for loud/deep passages. Depending upon expectations he might find something like dual BIC F12's acceptable, but I suspect they may ultimately be overcome by that much volume. I wouldn't advise going with anything less.

Jim, in your experience, if dtbreen76's friend would increase is/her budget by say $500, in a room that size would you go for say a svs pb12-nsd or maybe a couple of PA-150 or maybe a single Cadence CSX15 Mark II?

I'm talking for output only.


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post #52 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbreen76 View Post

Jim and others,

My friend has a large, tiled room, with a vaulted ceiling. He needs a sub. Primary use is HT/TV, but he may also listen to some music. He is using a Yamaha amp and Sony satellite speakers that are mounted up high (8' or so.)

I am wondering if the Bic V1220 is a good choice or perhaps a Yamaha? He is trying to stay around $200.

Room is 20'x24' with a ceiling that goes from 10' to 18'. Not sure how to calculate cf with a vaulted ceiling.

Appreciate all of your input. Thanks

A lot of inexpensive subs measure like mid-bass modules not like true deep bass subs.

One exception is the Energy S10.3 which has a much more desirable frequency response. Nearfield placement may provide satisfactory results because the entire space wouldn't need to be pressurized. Nearfield is considered within 4 feet of the listening position.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/e...-labs-measures

jproy13
As far as the 15 inch Cadence, Josh Ricci is testing the CSX15 for Audioholics. Based on the Sound&Vision test of the Cadence CSX12, the CSX15 should prove to be an even more powerful mid-bass module...
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post #53 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

Jim, in your experience, if dtbreen76's friend would increase is/her budget by say $500, in a room that size would you go for say a svs pb12-nsd or maybe a couple of PA-150 or maybe a single Cadence CSX15 Mark II?

I'm talking for output only.

Strictly for output dual PA-150's would provide more then a single SVS or Cadence. In extension, probably not, but for output (volume) they would.

The SVS will provide the most deep bass, but considering the price difference between that and the other two one would certainly hope so. The Cadence is a powerful sub, but it doesn't go quite as low as the SVS. The PA appears to be similar; solid output, but won't dig very deep.

With regards to Cadence... if you send an email to a guy named Ryeon he can often get you a discount code for the CSX12 and CSX15 (he works for Cadence in their NJ facility). That should make getting one -- or more -- of their subs a bit easier.

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post #54 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 02:18 PM
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jproy13
As far as the 15 inch Cadence, Josh Ricci is testing the CSX15 for Audioholics. Based on the Sound&Vision test of the Cadence CSX12, the CSX15 should prove to be an even more powerful mid-bass module...

The Cadence is no less a "sub" woofer than the 10.3. The 10.3 doesn't get below 20 either and has significantly less output above that than the Cadence. It's not some kind of miracle.

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post #55 of 2962 Old 04-18-2012, 04:00 PM
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thanks guys!

I have no intention in getting a Cadence...but every time I close my eyes, I see dual svs pb12-nsd knocking on my door begging to come in...than I wake up


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post #56 of 2962 Old 04-19-2012, 11:18 AM
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my sub is going to be placed on a hardwood floor (fairly thin floor...older house) with a basement below. i think that rules out downward firing woofers, but what about bottom ports? i was looking at the 12" dayton....but worried about the port placement.
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No worries with the port location. Go for it.
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post #58 of 2962 Old 04-19-2012, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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my sub is going to be placed on a hardwood floor (fairly thin floor...older house) with a basement below. i think that rules out downward firing woofers, but what about bottom ports? i was looking at the 12" dayton....but worried about the port placement.

Why would a hardwood floor rule out down-firing subwoofers? You should still be able to use one. If you find there's excess reverberations or unwanted reflections you could always get a small throw rug to place underneath it. Outside door mats work quite well for that purpose.

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post #59 of 2962 Old 04-20-2012, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

The Cadence is no less a "sub" woofer than the 10.3. The 10.3 doesn't get below 20 either and has significantly less output above that than the Cadence. It's not some kind of miracle.

The gold standard for subwoofers is:

Low, Loud, Flat, Clean

In the Sound&Vision test of the frequency response of the 12 inch Cadence, output at 63Hz is about 22 db higher than output at 20Hz, and still 13db down at 30Hz vs output at 63Hz. That certainly is nowhere near flat. And makes the Cadence more of a midbass module.

As you are aware, SVS subs actually measure quite close to flat as they should.

The Energy S10.3 measured much flatter than the Cadence. So, it is not mostly about the amount of bass available at 20 Hz, but rather bandwith uniformity. That is one reason CEA 2010 places so much empahsis on output from 20-31.5Hz and from 40-63Hz.
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post #60 of 2962 Old 04-20-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Even if the room didn't have cathedral ceilings, and was only 10' tall for the entire 20'x24' space, it would be close to 5000 CF. A single $1000 sub is probably going to struggle in such an environment, let alone one $200 unit. Quite honestly, duals are really the best way to go. Two would also increase the output, resulting in additional headroom for loud/deep passages. Depending upon expectations he might find something like dual BIC F12's acceptable, but I suspect they may ultimately be overcome by that much volume. I wouldn't advise going with anything less.

Very true. My set up is in a Great Room that is about the same size with 12ft. ceilings. I currently run two Acoustech HT-100s and it is okay for now (I would have gotten a couple of HSUs or SVSs, but shipping to Hawaii is CRAZY!). I am contemplating adding some Bass Shakers to the sectional couch to make up for the bass deficiencies.

I even looked into getting a couple of kits, but most places won't ship. The best bet is Amazon (free shipping), but they don't sell anything in the quality range.

Tell you friend to bump up his price range into the $400 or so range and get a couple of subs for his room. It should tie him over till he can spend some serious coin on a couple of "solid" performers.
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