Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by i_want_that View Post

I grabbed the same energy micro 5.0 deal and interested in thoughts on a good matching sub with complementing high end going as low as possible for the less than $300 price. Thanks for your help.

I assume you're going to use it primarily for HT? What size is your room?

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post #632 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

What is the efficiency rating of the Klipsch RW-12d?
You can figure out sensitivity (not efficiency, which is totally different) by taking the claimed maximum output of 116dB at 30Hz into 1/8th space, deducting 12dB to get the AES/IEC standard 1/2 space rating, putting you at 104dB. Reduce that by 25dB to go from 350w to 1w and that gives you 79dB/w at 30Hz.

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post #633 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Interesting; according to the Specifications section for the HD15s on Precision Acoustics website it uses a 12" driver. They also list the size as "Dimensions (HxWxD)-mm: N/A". I guess if they can't get the easy part right there's little hope the engineering is any better...
"catfish market"?

What would you expect from a French Canadian Based company? Website says one thing, PDF says another. They aren't confused, they just don't really care. Their target isn't the smart, well to do folks with lots of money, they are targetting the larger not so affluent just give me big noise and shakity shake shake audience. Like you and me.

I love big speakers .... brrr brrrrrrr rrrr... feel that bass. (*&%($%( ... brrrrrr brrrrrr ... feel that bass!

But interesting, the 2 short ports ... how would this sub fair with a larger longer port? Oh well, if I was much younger, and my time worth alot less, I would start experimenting. Really, for $300, you get a 250w rms plate, and a 15" sub with a hefty magnet on it (I looked into the port). The klipsch doesn't have any foam or filling, where as the Precision Acoustics does.

But I doubt I will ever be able to get the real thiele-small parameters for that sub, so no point. Life's too short to care. Lets pump up that large vibrator!
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post #634 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

You can figure out sensitivity (not efficiency, which is totally different) by taking the claimed maximum output of 116dB at 30Hz into 1/8th space, deducting 12dB to get the AES/IEC standard 1/2 space rating, putting you at 104dB. Reduce that by 25dB to go from 350w to 1w and that gives you 79dB/w at 30Hz.
Sorry. Sensitivity is what I meant. Thanks. Is that the actual sensitivity for the RW or an example? 79 doesnt seem particularly impressive.

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post #635 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 10:26 AM
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Hi All.

I've been looking at BIC subwoofers for a while, and I'm debating between the V1220 and the F-12. It sounds like the F-12 goes a little lower in terms of bass and the cabinet looks a little nicer than the V1220. This subwoofer will be located next to my couch along the back wall, so the F-12 will have the back port pointing toward the back wall (w/ ~4" clearance) and the speaker would be facing the front of the room where the TV is located, while the V1220 in that location would have the side port facing away from the couch. I like the idea of the down-firing speaker, as I have 2 little girls that might touch the front-facing speaker on the F-12... however, I also have concerns with the side port on the V1220 (I'm envisioning a princess doll being stuck into the port and lost inside the sub).

From a sound perspective, given where this sub will be located, do you think it matters if I go with front-firing F-12 or the down-firing V1220? Also, any insight on the size of the side port on the V1220 (again, thinking about little hands sticking little toys in there?

Thanks.
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post #636 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bblackbu View Post

Also, any insight on the size of the side port on the V1220 (again, thinking about little hands sticking little toys in there?
Thanks.
I don't have it in front of me, but the port is sizable. Definitely large enough for a small child's hand to fit.

As far as V1220 vs F-12, I can't compare directly as I don't have an F-12 but I have a PA 120 which is said to be very similar in terms of performance. Comparing V1220 against PA120, I would say the PA120 is capable of more output and making more rumble in the room, probably thanks to a bigger amp.

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post #637 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 11:02 AM
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Hey guys,

I have a friend looking to put a subwoofer in the wall of their multimedia room with speaker cloth in front of it. Behind is a unfinished storage closest with a concrete floor. I'm looking for recommendations if they should go with a front firing or down firing ?

Thanks
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post #638 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 11:04 AM
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So the sub will be in a "cubby" of sorts? I would think you would want a sub that is both front firing and front ported if possible.

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post #639 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeBoxerKR View Post

Hi,
I'm a brand new member, and just bought the HD15s 15" Precision Acoustics subwoofer from Best Buy for $299 - what a deal for 15".
At the same time, I also bought 2 x 12" Klipsh sub-12 to do a side by side.
Apples and Bananas!
For HT, the large, long port of the Klipsch 12" absolutely shatters the PA 15" dual really short port to oblivion and beyond. If you want a really mammoth LFE power house, just 1 Klipsh 12" is all you'll need. My room is about 20x20, so a relatively good size open living room.
However, for musicallity, the HD15s does sound cleaner. The Klipsch sub-12 is muddy, so turn the low-pass nearly all the way down, and depend on your surround woofers to make up for gap.
Both model made in china, both target the catfish (bottom feeder) market.
So there you have it.
======================
For Purely LFE = Klipsch Sub-12,
Down firing, long and large rear facing port
freq. resp: 24Hz - 120Hz
For More Musicallity = Precision Acoustics HD15s
Front firing, very short dual small-mid size rear facing ports
freq. resp: 35Hz - 150Hz
Both were $299 on boxing week up in Canada at BB.
I'm keeping just the 1 Klipsch, it's got a 5 year warranty, so I'm refunding the BB 9 year extended warranty, as my CC covers an extra year.

I was also looking at these two and was wondering if I could get some input as to what might be better for my setup

My current setup is:

Onkyo TX-NR616
JBL Loft 5.0 Speaker System

I'm using this system in a ~20'x14' room with 10' ceiling.

I'm currently looking at the following from Bestbuy:

Klipsch Synergy Sub-12 - $299 Canadian
Precision Acoustics HD15S - $299 Canadian

I'd budgeted ~$500 for my Subwoofer (taxes/etc) but I can probably go a little over if people know of a better suggestion. Whatever I get would have to be from a Canadian store.
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post #640 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Sorry. Sensitivity is what I meant. Thanks. Is that the actual sensitivity for the RW or an example? 79 doesnt seem particularly impressive.
Actual, assuming the Klipsch data is accurate. That's not an unusual figure for a speaker of that size, and that being the case it's no wonder manufacturers are loath to produce SPL charts. Note that Klipsch quotes 116dB maxmimum SPL at 30Hz, chances are in the middle of the passband 85dB sensitivity is more likely. But without a chart you have no way of knowing. Meanwhile, Paul Klipsch does an few more rotations in his grave...rolleyes.gif

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post #641 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptosBC View Post

I was also looking at these two and was wondering if I could get some input as to what might be better for my setup
My current setup is:
Onkyo TX-NR616
JBL Loft 5.0 Speaker System
I'm using this system in a ~20'x14' room with 10' ceiling.
I'm currently looking at the following from Bestbuy:
Klipsch Synergy Sub-12 - $299 Canadian
Precision Acoustics HD15S - $299 Canadian
I'd budgeted ~$500 for my Subwoofer (taxes/etc) but I can probably go a little over if people know of a better suggestion. Whatever I get would have to be from a Canadian store.

First off, the Klipsch is probably sold out by now at all the BB around you.
You'll have to go to one of the store, ask them to check the other store for inventory if they don't have it. I bought the last 2 in the Greater Ottawa area.

It really depends on what you are after. But I recommend to do what I did, buy both. See which style you prefer. I decided to hell with sub sound quality, I just want the destructive force that's missing from my home theater setup. Most of my range are coverred really well already. I was actually expecting the megadon size 15" sub to give me a heart attack, but the smaller Klipsch with the longer port and downfiring on my hardwood floor rocked the house that even the kids on the opposite corner of the 2nd floor thought it was an earthquake.

The 15" might work better for you, since you might need for low frequency filling in with your setup. Who knows. Test it out. With their return policy, its a time saving. Listen to both, and decide then. Hearing is believing .... ummm ... or was it the other way around?

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post #642 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 01:44 PM
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There are multiple of each in stock at my local BBs so I have options either way. I'm also open to other options up to ~$500 but I haven't found something else of note from a Canadian store that falls in that budget.
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post #643 of 2950 Old 01-03-2013, 02:14 PM
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if you are willing to go up to $500 then go with SVS. They have a Canadian distributor (Sonic Boom Audio) and a SVS PB-1000 would be a great fit.

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post #644 of 2950 Old 01-04-2013, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

rmc29615;
Is the new sub going to be in addition to, or in lieu of, your Klipsch SW-450? If it's the former you should try and get another bass reflex unit in order to make integrating the two easier. If you're replacing the SW-450 then all your options are still on the table.
How big is your room? That's a pretty critical piece of information when determining what subwoofer(s) might work best.
Not necessarily - there are many factors that come into play...
To an extent subwoofers live by the credo "bigger is better", and that includes the amp. However, the design, driver efficiency and amp class play key roles as well. As a general rule, acoustic suspension (sealed) require more powerful amps because the air inside the cabinet tends to impeded the drivers movement. One of the best ways to overcome that is raw power. Bass reflex (ported) don't have that same resistance to overcome, so they can often get by with amps that have less power.
A drivers efficiency rating also comes into play. An inefficient driver -- for arguments sake, one with an 85dB rating -- requires far more power to drive then one with a higher efficiency, say around 90dB. Amp class is yet another consideration; class D amps put out closer to their rated power then class A/B amps do, so if a class D amp is rated for 200 watts and a class A/B amp is rated for 250 watts the driver itself may end up getting the exact same amount of power due to the efficiency differences.
That's just an overview of course, but it does lend some insight into other areas that will effect how much power an amp needs to provide in order for it to work properly.

Yes I'm looking to add an addiitonal sub to pair with the SW-450. My room is 12x22 with an 8 ft ceiling. I checked and it looks like all the subs I'm considering are bass reflex except the Jamo 650 since its a sealed sub. is there a certain bass reflex sub or subs that would pair with the SW-450 better than another out of the Klipsch sub10, Klipsch rw12, Energy s10.3, Hsu stf-2 & Outlaw lfm-1? Would the klipsch be a better match since its the same sort of construction? It looks to me that the SW350/450 are the newer versions of the Sub10/12. Is the RW12 a conserderable upgrade compared to the Sub10? I guess I'm trying to figure out if the RW12 is worth a $100 more or if the HSU or Outlaw is worth $150 more.
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post #645 of 2950 Old 01-04-2013, 11:52 AM
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I've got a mutant setup -- Energy V-Minis for front left/right, Energy CC-10 for center, and Energy RC-Micros for the rest. Looking for good options on a sub to compliment the setup. I don't think I can get away with a really big sub because I think I still need some volume up to ~120hz. Got recommendations? I thought maybe the BIC F12, but then someone pointed out that the V-Minis/CC-10 probably don't have enough low/mid capability to close the gap with an F12. So something a bit more upscale, then? PB1000? Or should I get a small sub for the front that will fill in the gaps of my Energy speakers and then a big sub to go low?
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post #646 of 2950 Old 01-04-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmc29615 View Post

is there a certain bass reflex sub or subs that would pair with the SW-450 better than another out of the Klipsch sub10, Klipsch rw12, Energy s10.3, Hsu stf-2 & Outlaw lfm-1?

That's a tough question to answer, because not only is it advisable to match the type -- bass reflex, acoustic suspension -- but if you want to keep the integration simple the characteristics should be pretty close as well. Things like frequency response, sound characteristics, etc. Unless you want to do a bit of fiddling and adjusting it might be best to consider another Klipsch, like the Sub 12 or RW-12d, in order to keep things easy.

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post #647 of 2950 Old 01-04-2013, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Rootus View Post

So something a bit more upscale, then? PB1000? Or should I get a small sub for the front that will fill in the gaps of my Energy speakers and then a big sub to go low?
Trying to have two different subs reproducing different low end frequency ranges is going to be a nightmare to manage and calibrate properly. You'll have peaks and valleys in your frequency response all over the chart. Next thing you know you'll be adding equalizers to the mix trying to smooth it out.

I like the PB1000 idea, if you can swing it.

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post #648 of 2950 Old 01-04-2013, 01:18 PM
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I have been reading a lot these threads and there is so much great information on these subs. I can't figure out how to start a new thre
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post #649 of 2950 Old 01-04-2013, 01:59 PM
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Can't start a new thread. Read through a lot of the info on the budget subs threads, and there is great info. I've also read that is there is a big personal preference factor in buying a sub. I've owned a speakercraft bass x10 for 9 years and I'm very happy with it. It's no longer working and now I need to replace it. I need your help in choosing a sub under $300 that will most closely deliver deep bass closest to the bass x10. I'm relying on your help to steer me towards the sub that'll be right for me. It will go in a corner in my loft upstairs that is a pretty open room, connecting to two hallways and the stairs leading downstairs. Not ideal, but it's what I got. Room is about 20x20. Thanks in advance
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post #650 of 2950 Old 01-04-2013, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootus View Post

I've got a mutant setup -- Energy V-Minis for front left/right, Energy CC-10 for center, and Energy RC-Micros for the rest. Looking for good options on a sub to compliment the setup. I don't think I can get away with a really big sub because I think I still need some volume up to ~120hz. Got recommendations? I thought maybe the BIC F12, but then someone pointed out that the V-Minis/CC-10 probably don't have enough low/mid capability to close the gap with an F12. So something a bit more upscale, then? PB1000? Or should I get a small sub for the front that will fill in the gaps of my Energy speakers and then a big sub to go low?

Your Micro's will be the biggest impediment to integration because they're -3dB point is only 150Hz, which means you need to get a subwoofer which can play that high. It would also need to do so cleanly, otherwise things like deep male voices will sound "chesty".

The PB1000 may work, but how big is your room? That's critical when deciding on a subwoofer.

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post #651 of 2950 Old 01-04-2013, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Can't start a new thread.

You can't start a new thread within my thread, but you can start a new thread in general. Just go to the forum which best fits your need and you'll see a button that will allow you to create a thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gambito View Post

I need your help in choosing a sub under $300 that will most closely deliver deep bass closest to the bass x10. I'm relying on your help to steer me towards the sub that'll be right for me. It will go in a corner in my loft upstairs that is a pretty open room, connecting to two hallways and the stairs leading downstairs. Not ideal, but it's what I got. Room is about 20x20.

Not knowing anything about the bass x10 I did a quick google search and found it had a single 10" driver with a 125 watt amp. That's a fairly small subwoofer for such a large space, so I'm certain there are others that will be able to satisfy your needs. For example, the Klipsch RW-12d can be had now for $300 (using coupon code EMCNJNF23). It's hard to image that won't easily beat what your old subwoofer was capable of. There's only 2 days left on the sale though, so you'd have to act quick because they usually sell out.

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post #652 of 2950 Old 01-04-2013, 05:44 PM
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The Dayton SUB-1200 arrived yesterday and so far I'm very impressed. Re-ran Audyssey on the Denon 2112CI and with the gain at only 1/3, it set it to -2 dB. Watched Ghost Protocol last night and even though I wasn't able to crank it up too much (kid was in bed early), I stil noticed a HUGE improvement over my 14 year old Klipsch 8"! Going to watch The Dark Knight Rises this weekend when I can turn up the whole system.

It's probably been asked before but what is a good Blu-ray with good rumbling, explosive bass throughout, not just in a few select scenes? In other words, what's going to shake the walls enough to really upset my wife for a solid 2 hours? smile.gif
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post #653 of 2950 Old 01-04-2013, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Anodyne View Post

The Dayton SUB-1200 arrived yesterday and so far I'm very impressed. Re-ran Audyssey on the Denon 2112CI and with the gain at only 1/3, it set it to -2 dB. Watched Ghost Protocol last night and even though I wasn't able to crank it up too much (kid was in bed early), I stil noticed a HUGE improvement over my 14 year old Klipsch 8"! Going to watch The Dark Knight Rises this weekend when I can turn up the whole system.
It's probably been asked before but what is a good Blu-ray with good rumbling, explosive bass throughout, not just in a few select scenes? In other words, what's going to shake the walls enough to really upset my wife for a solid 2 hours? smile.gif

Oh, another NC man. My vote goes to Total Recall in the category of something recent that will have your sub doing something or other the entire movie.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
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Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
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post #654 of 2950 Old 01-05-2013, 10:16 AM
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.
nice little Martin Logan Dynamo 300 8" 75 Watt Subwoofer - at Fry's today for $118.


http://www.frys.com/product/7189262?site=sa:adpages%20page:P11_SAT%20date:010513

http://www.martinlogan.com/dynamo/index.php#dynamo300
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post #655 of 2950 Old 01-05-2013, 10:27 AM
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.
nice little Martin Logan Dynamo 300 8" 75 Watt Subwoofer - at Fry's today for $118.
That's pretty neat actually.

On the other hand, it shows that even the big guys can't get their specs right. All throughout the product literature they say the driver is 8” (25.4cm). So which one is it, 8" or 25.4cm? smile.gif
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post #656 of 2950 Old 01-05-2013, 03:55 PM
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Hi Jim,


It's a basement family room that had satellites (6.1) wired to ceiling except for the center channel, which sits on the a/v cabinet. Otherwise, I'd upgrade to "real" speakers. In my dedicated Maryland HT, i had ~$4500 of PSB speakers w/ PSB Subsonic8 (Dual 10" w/ 275W RMS). I believe I upgraded w/ the energy micro vs the Sony. Any sub will be a big improvement from the sony HTiB

Room is big ... 38' x 14' w/ 7' ceilings.

I am debating / will likely upgrade the center to a legitimate center channel to go w/ the energy micro satellites, Energy CC5 or CC10?

I will listen to music, but performance wise only care about movies. I'm leaning to the BIC F12 based on perf/price, but very open to other suggestions. I considered the HSU VTF2, but don't feel like dropping $600 on this room.

Other equip: Marantz NR1602, Sanyo 60" LCD, Sony BR player, PS3, ATT uVerse.

Thanks again.
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post #657 of 2950 Old 01-05-2013, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by i_want_that View Post

Room is big ... 38' x 14' w/ 7' ceilings.

I will listen to music, but performance wise only care about movies. I'm leaning to the BIC F12 based on perf/price, but very open to other suggestions. I considered the HSU VTF2, but don't feel like dropping $600 on this room.

You're right, that is a big room - over 3700 cubic feet. I'm afraid there really isn't a $300 subwoofer made that will put much of a dent in such a large space. In your case getting something that has more output then depth might be advantageous.

If you opt to go that route you should check out the Premier Acoustic PA-150. Using the 'make an offer' button you may be able to get it for about $375. Another one to consider is the Acoustic Audio HD-SUB15. AA has a spotty past history when it comes to their amps, but it's pretty inexpensive.

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post #658 of 2950 Old 01-05-2013, 07:38 PM
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For $400 you could get 2 Bic F12s.

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post #659 of 2950 Old 01-06-2013, 03:45 PM
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Thank you, Jim, for your excellent threads. They've been most helpful.

I'm trying to choose between these four subs: Definitive Technology Prosub 800; Mirage Omni S8; Infinity Primus PS38; Lava LSP08. The Prosub is considerably more money than the other three, and I can't find a lot of feedback on compact subs to decide if one is worth more than the other. You can find a long-winded version of this question here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449894/compact-sub-help
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post #660 of 2950 Old 01-06-2013, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bradsab View Post

I'm trying to choose between these four subs: Definitive Technology Prosub 800; Mirage Omni S8; Infinity Primus PS38; Lava LSP08. The Prosub is considerably more money than the other three, and I can't find a lot of feedback on compact subs to decide if one is worth more than the other. You can find a long-winded version of this question here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449894/compact-sub-help

Geez, you aren't kidding about long winded. Are you Stephen King in disguise? smile.gif

I'll post something in your thread instead of here. That way the responses will be specific to your situation.

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