Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #721 of 3580 Old 01-10-2013, 03:48 PM
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Avoid them!! The specs are HORRIBLE.

These are brand-new "Energy" branded subs but this is under the new Audiovox ownership. As best I can tell they are intended to mate with the new entry-level soundbars that Energy is putting out.

The Power 12 for example is rated at only 75 watts continuous for the amp, has a -3dB point of 35Hz, and weighs only 23lbs! For a 12" sub that is awful, more comparable to a $100 Polk than any of the solid budget options you can get for $300..

It's best to avoid any recent Energy sub products. The quality offerings pretty much ended with the SX.3 line (e.g. S10.3) and the "V" subs (e.g. ESW-V10).

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post #722 of 3580 Old 01-10-2013, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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20'x24', but it's not enclosed. It opens into another large space.

We have wide and eclectic taste. This would be used to play anything from Hard Rock and Hip Hop to all-male acapella groups, Symphonic Music, and even Show Tunes. No organ music, FWIW (I'd heard that organ music is considered by some to be a quality challenge for a given audio system).


I'm very comfortable at $300, and prepared to drop that without batting an eye. If we're talking about stepping up a couple hundred dollars to $500ish, if it'll make a difference I'm open to the idea. If we're talking about stepping up a thousand or so dollars, that's something I'm not prepared to do at this point.

Frankly, I don't think any $500 sub -- let alone a $300 one -- will be able to fill that much space. If your ceilings are only 8 feet that's well over 3800 cubic feet, and that doesn't even count the other large space. Dual PB1000's might do pretty good, but anything less then that will probably be overwhelmed.

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post #723 of 3580 Old 01-10-2013, 03:55 PM
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You just missed the Outlaw LFM-1EX for $549 shipped. I think that is what it was on sale for not too long ago. If you can wait for the sale again, it'll give you a little time to get the money and get a killer sub.
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post #724 of 3580 Old 01-10-2013, 03:58 PM
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Shoot Out, Shoot Out tongue.gif
When I was looking these two subs just became available but I opted for the Dual RW12-D set up for 600 and could'nt be more happy. But that does'nt mean you should'nt have a shoot out cuz i would be interested in your conclusions.

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post #725 of 3580 Old 01-10-2013, 05:25 PM
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Avoid them!! The specs are HORRIBLE.

Thanks Batpig, I had a look at the specs online. I am thinking my old Polk PSW10 looked better, at least with the smaller HT speakers. I am going to see what the BIC America looks like soon as I really need to fill a hole in the mancave with something.
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post #726 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 04:00 AM
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Amazon lightning deal at 1:00 PM (Eastern) on an unknown sub... Would expect it to be a "budget" sub, FYI.
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post #727 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post

Amazon lightning deal at 1:00 PM (Eastern) on an unknown sub... Would expect it to be a "budget" sub, FYI.
Thanks!
I'll be keeping my eyes peeled!


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post #728 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 10:00 AM
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It's for the Energy ESW-M8 for $249
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post #729 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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It's for the Energy ESW-M8 for $249

Stoney Jackson?

"At the end it was just me, Stoney Jackson and Tom Highway. We were the only ones left alive..."

That Stoney Jackson? biggrin.gif

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post #730 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 10:43 AM
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post #731 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 10:55 AM
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Stoney Jackson?

"At the end it was just me, Stoney Jackson and Tom Highway. We were the only ones left alive..."

That Stoney Jackson? biggrin.gif
No, the other one.
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post #732 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoney Jackson View Post

It's for the Energy ESW-M8 for $249

Meh deal. This sub is good quality but it's TEENY TINY and doesn't do anything below 40Hz. If you specifically want a sub that is as small as possible (e.g. for a small apartment or condo) then it's fine, but it's not a serious HT sub.

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post #733 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You're in a good mood. Extra helping of Wheaties this morning? smile.gif

Nah, I just love the smell of napalm in the morning... wink.gif

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post #734 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 02:30 PM
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What do you folks think about the JBL ES250PBK on Amazon right now for less then 200 shipped?

There isn't much on this forum and some of that is concerning the older PB series. I know the older ones had some amp problems but I'm not sure that applies to the newer ones. Even most of the reviews on Amazon are dated.
I'm thinking about getting one of these or I could go with the Bic F12 but I like the looks of the JBL better. The specs look just as good and the JBL looks to have more power @ 300 watts RMS.

My room is sorta small at 16' x 10' x 8', well, actually the ceiling is only about 7'4".

It seems like a good deal for the JBL ES250PBK compared to what it was selling for last year but I'd like to hear some comments from those who have used this sub if I can.

Al
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post #735 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 03:12 PM
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I was looking at the same JBL and the klipsch synergy 12HG for $299...

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post #736 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Angler55 View Post

What do you folks think about the JBL ES250PBK on Amazon right now for less then 200 shipped?

For $200 it sure looks tempting. There aren't many decent subs at that price point, so it's certainly worth considering.

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post #737 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Angler55 View Post

What do you folks think about the JBL ES250PBK on Amazon right now for less then 200 shipped?

There isn't much on this forum and some of that is concerning the older PB series. I know the older ones had some amp problems but I'm not sure that applies to the newer ones. Even most of the reviews on Amazon are dated.
I'm thinking about getting one of these or I could go with the Bic F12 but I like the looks of the JBL better. The specs look just as good and the JBL looks to have more power @ 300 watts RMS.

My room is sorta small at 16' x 10' x 8', well, actually the ceiling is only about 7'4".

It seems like a good deal for the JBL ES250PBK compared to what it was selling for last year but I'd like to hear some comments from those who have used this sub if I can.

Al
Amazon says that the 250 is 400RMS and the 150 is 300RMS.
From the reviews it looks to be a good sub but as you noted you are taking your chances with the amp and circuit board issues. You will probably not get a lot of response here from actual users but there are plenty of reviews there to go by. Over 50% give 5 stars so that would seem to be about your odds. Only you can decide if it is worth the risk.

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post #738 of 3580 Old 01-11-2013, 06:33 PM
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Thanks Jim and Bond,
Yeah I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote 300 watts because I've been looking at that sub for a few days and knew it was 400. Anyway, I think you're right about the 50/50 chance on this but I'm really thinking I should take that chance. I guess I'll sleep on it and if it's still the same price in the morning I'll make up my mind for sure then. It is a pretty nice looking sub that's for sure.

Thanks again guys!

Al
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post #739 of 3580 Old 01-13-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Meh deal. This sub is good quality but it's TEENY TINY and doesn't do anything below 40Hz. If you specifically want a sub that is as small as possible (e.g. for a small apartment or condo) then it's fine, but it's not a serious HT sub.

Apparently, you have never owned or done research on the actual measurements of the Energy Sub. It's - 3 db point was tested as being 35 Hz. Sure, it drops off significantly below this point but will still have plenty of energy down in the 26 Hz range. How do I know this? I own two of them. It is a very capable Subwoofer in small to medium size spaces. wink.gif
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post #740 of 3580 Old 01-13-2013, 09:40 AM
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Omg! It goes down to 35hz?! Wow...
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post #741 of 3580 Old 01-13-2013, 09:46 AM
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Apparently, you have never owned or done research on the actual measurements of the Energy Sub. It's - 3 db point was tested as being 35 Hz.
According to this review (PDF):
Quote:
Figure 3 shows the frequency response of the ESW-M8, this time measured in the far-field (a distance of 2 metres) and using pink noise as a test stimulus, thus allowing the output of the dual ABRs to integrate with that from the front-firing bass driver. The response with the crossover control set to 200Hz is exceptionally flat between 50Hz and 250Hz, varying no more than a total of 2dB. Peak output is at 110Hz, with the response rolling off to be –6dB at 40Hz and 400Hz. Normalised, this puts the frequency response at 40–400Hz ±3dB, which at the upper end of the spec is far better than Energy’s own specification, which it lists as topping out at 200Hz. As you’d expect, the ESW-M8’s output isn’t nearly so linear with the crossover set to 50Hz. In this case, the Energy’s output peaks at 60Hz and is –6dB at 35Hz and 120Hz or, normalised, 35–120Hz ±3dB. Again, Energy specifies the –3dB point at 36Hz, so the agreement with Newport Test Labs’ measurements is very close.
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post #742 of 3580 Old 01-13-2013, 09:56 AM
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The fact of the matter is that it is a very capable Subwoofer for having an 8" driver. Many people don’t need / want subterranean bass levels for various reasons. rolleyes.gif
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post #743 of 3580 Old 01-13-2013, 10:23 AM
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Also, I should have stated 36 Hz, not 35 Hz. My typo. redface.gif
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this puts the frequency response at 40–400Hz ±3dB, which at the upper end of the spec is far better than Energy’s own specification,

Just because this test measurement states the 3 db point at 40 Hz, it does not mean that you won't hear any bass frequencies below that point, just not as loud. I own an original Sunfire True Subwoofer too. I wouldn't have put it away if I felt I was missing anything that I couldn't live without. wink.gif
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post #744 of 3580 Old 01-13-2013, 01:16 PM
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While not my cup of tea, the Energy would be a great sub for an apartment or where WAF and budget are a big concern yet you still want decent overall "punch". I will keep my eyes on this sub for friends and family that fall under this catagory.
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post #745 of 3580 Old 01-14-2013, 07:21 AM
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I only have personal experience with V1220 and PA-120. I haven't done any official testing to compare the two, but I feel that between these two, the PA-120 is a more capable sub in terms of volume/impact. In terms of low frequency response, I couldn't really tell.
Someone in another thread suggested the track called "Night Bass" by Bass Mekanik as a way to showcase the capabilities of your sub. I played it through both my living room HT setup that uses the V1220 as well as through my basement audio setup that uses the PA-120. I have a new-found respect for the V1220, I must say. There are parts in this track where frequencies dip to 15 Hz supposedly, and although this is obviously below human hearing threshold, the V1220 handled it cleanly (no port noise). On the other hand, the port noise on the PA-120 was significant. Granted, the two subs were fed by two different receivers, so it's not exactly apples-to-apples comparison. Anyway, an interesting track to play.

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post #746 of 3580 Old 01-14-2013, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Someone in another thread suggested the track called "Night Bass" by Bass Mekanik as a way to showcase the capabilities of your sub.

Wanna really see how low your sub can go? Try Halloweener from Dub King, but don't play it too loud until you know your subwoofer can handle it. There's a few parts that are merciless if the HPF doesn't work.

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post #747 of 3580 Old 01-14-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Angler55 View Post

What do you folks think about the JBL ES250PBK on Amazon right now for less then 200 shipped?

There isn't much on this forum and some of that is concerning the older PB series. I know the older ones had some amp problems but I'm not sure that applies to the newer ones. Even most of the reviews on Amazon are dated.
I'm thinking about getting one of these or I could go with the Bic F12 but I like the looks of the JBL better. The specs look just as good and the JBL looks to have more power @ 300 watts RMS.

My room is sorta small at 16' x 10' x 8', well, actually the ceiling is only about 7'4".

It seems like a good deal for the JBL ES250PBK compared to what it was selling for last year but I'd like to hear some comments from those who have used this sub if I can.

Al

I got the ES150 about a month ago just before Christmas and I absolutely love it! It sounds really good for movies and holds it's own with music also. I was looking at the bic v1220 but i saw this and just couldn't pass it up. The amp does get really warm after about 45 mins of use so the amp claims could be true, hopefully it has been fixed. If the amp does go out just get a dayton amp off parts express.

-Ben
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post #748 of 3580 Old 01-14-2013, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I got the ES150 about a month ago just before Christmas and I absolutely love it! It sounds really good for movies and holds it's own with music also. I was looking at the bic v1220 but i saw this and just couldn't pass it up. The amp does get really warm after about 45 mins of use so the amp claims could be true, hopefully it has been fixed. If the amp does go out just get a dayton amp off parts express.

Do the spec's list the amp as Class A/B? As a general rule they do run warm. If it's Class D or BASH and it's really warm that's another story.

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post #749 of 3580 Old 01-14-2013, 10:39 AM
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Do the spec's list the amp as Class A/B? As a general rule they do run warm. If it's Class D or BASH and it's really warm that's another story.
JBL website search didn't even bring the 150 up. No mention of amp class anywhere on Amazon and not even a single picture of the back of it. hmmm...

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post #750 of 3580 Old 01-14-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Meh deal. This sub is good quality but it's TEENY TINY and doesn't do anything below 40Hz. If you specifically want a sub that is as small as possible (e.g. for a small apartment or condo) then it's fine, but it's not a serious HT sub.

Apparently, you have never owned or done research on the actual measurements of the Energy Sub. It's - 3 db point was tested as being 35 Hz. Sure, it drops off significantly below this point but will still have plenty of energy down in the 26 Hz range. How do I know this? I own two of them. It is a very capable Subwoofer in small to medium size spaces. wink.gif

Actually, I have read several reviews with bench tests of this sub and its Mirage "twins" (MM-6 and MM-8). That review and bench test linked support what I said -- it starts rolling off at 50Hz and goes down steeply below 40Hz.





Perhaps I was being a bit hyperbolic by saying it "doesn't do anything below 40Hz" but the fact of the matter is you aren't going to get powerful output for those "sub bass" octaves below 40Hz from a 8" cube, no matter how nice. Notice that I did acknowledge that the sub is "good quality" -- I'm sure you would have a difficult time finding a better sub for the price that is THAT small, or even close to that small. You'd probably have to double the price to the $500 SVS SB-100 to surpass it for bass quality/output in nearly as small of a package.

I don't think though it's particularly controversial or ignorant to suggest that this sub is as I said -- designed to be "as small as possible" for use in a small apartment or condo. Even the reviewer who provided those measurements noted:
Quote:
I’ve gone into some detail about this because when I used the Energy ESW-M8 to play a variety of CDs that I know have considerable musical energy below 40Hz—Famous Blue Raincoat (35Hz), Dark Side of the Moon (27Hz) and Telarc’s Great Fantasy Adventure Album (10Hz)—it didn’t seem to translate this energy efficiently into my listening room. There was certainly some deep bass output, but not quite enough to satisfy my yearnings for deep bass. However, what these auditions proved to me was the Energy’s ESW-M8 is very efficient at delivering musical energy is in the two adjacent (higher) octaves: that is, the octave between 40Hz and 80Hz, and then the octave between 80Hz and 160Hz. Because of this, I’d be more inclined to regard the ESW-M8 as a superwoofer than a subwoofer.

(snip)

But the bottom line really does come down to the physical size of the bass driver and the cabinet. You will get deeper, louder bass and a more linear low-frequency response from any of the larger subwoofers in Energy’s range, so if cabinet size is not absolutely critical, I’d recommend passing by the ESW-M8 and getting something bigger—preferably much bigger. However if for whatever reason it is essential you buy a subwoofer that is as tiny as possible, then I’d wholeheartedly recommend Energy’s ESW-M8.

So basically, my statements were pretty much accurate. Even you implicitly acknowledge this by caveating your remarks with "in small to medium spaces".

It seems that you take issue with the sematics of "serious HT sub", but I think you are in the wrong thread to argue that issue. The point is that this sub fills a specific niche -- excellent quality bass in as small a package as possible, with the compromise being limited ability to hit those lowest octaves below 40Hz for "serious HT" use. You are obviously cool with that compromise, and that's fine. Let it be known that I only have an 8" sub (the Mirage Prestige S8) which I also wouldn't qualify as a "serious HT sub", but it fits my needs perfectly. I, like you, don't really need "subterranean bass" in my current living situation.

But for someone who comes to this thread looking for advice on finding the best bang for the buck on a subwoofer purchase, I think it's important to point out the limitations of this model. If size limitations aren't an issue, anyone would be much better served getting something like the Klipsch RW-12d which will absolute crush the little M8 in overall output and sub 40Hz extension.

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