Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 2924 Old 01-24-2013, 02:38 PM
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If that is the case, and I would like to reach as low as possible, should I get: BIC PL-200, Klipsch RW-12D, HSU STF-2, or something else? Thanks for the help?

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post #902 of 2924 Old 01-24-2013, 03:47 PM
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I am looking at the HSU STF-2, 2 of the SVS cube subs and the PL-200. I nearly went with the PL-200 but if I add 6" to the depth of the box for the rear port, it's a no go. Box size is a real issue for me so I am attracted to sealed and front ported subs. The SVS PL-1000 seems a great compromise.

But I would appreciate some feedback on the HSU STF-2 as an alternative. I am not sure if the 2 ports with plugs is gimmiky or the real deal.
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post #903 of 2924 Old 01-24-2013, 05:23 PM
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Jim and Bond 007,

Thanks for the replies.

Someone recommended I look at the SVS Dual PB-1000. With your extensive sub knowledge which would you choose?

Thanks,

JT.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGCanuck View Post

I am looking at the HSU STF-2, 2 of the SVS cube subs and the PL-200. I nearly went with the PL-200 but if I add 6" to the depth of the box for the rear port, it's a no go. Box size is a real issue for me so I am attracted to sealed and front ported subs. The SVS PL-1000 seems a great compromise.

But I would appreciate some feedback on the HSU STF-2 as an alternative. I am not sure if the 2 ports with plugs is gimmiky or the real deal.
You should go for a bottom ported. Take a rear port sub, block the port(s) and VOILA!!! A sealed sub. cool.gif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiguej View Post

Jim and Bond 007,

Thanks for the replies.

Someone recommended I look at the SVS Dual PB-1000. With your extensive sub knowledge which would you choose?

Thanks,

JT.

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post #906 of 2924 Old 01-24-2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiguej View Post

Jim and Bond 007,

Thanks for the replies.

Someone recommended I look at the SVS Dual PB-1000. With your extensive sub knowledge which would you choose?

Thanks,

JT.
I really don't know your situation and Jim is the only one here with extensive sub knowledge. The pb1000 is a nice sub from what people say. If you post (or repost) your room size, budget and so forth it would be helpful.

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post #907 of 2924 Old 01-24-2013, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGCanuck View Post

I am looking at the HSU STF-2, 2 of the SVS cube subs and the PL-200. I nearly went with the PL-200 but if I add 6" to the depth of the box for the rear port, it's a no go. Box size is a real issue for me so I am attracted to sealed and front ported subs. The SVS PL-1000 seems a great compromise.

But I would appreciate some feedback on the HSU STF-2 as an alternative. I am not sure if the 2 ports with plugs is gimmiky or the real deal.
My prediction is that you will die of old age before you purchase a sub. wink.gif The stf2 does not have 2 ports or plugs. Perhaps you should rethink things.

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post #908 of 2924 Old 01-24-2013, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edlittle View Post

If that is the case, and I would like to reach as low as possible, should I get: BIC PL-200, Klipsch RW-12D, HSU STF-2, or something else? Thanks for the help?

The BIC PL-200 peaks at in output at about 50hz and is already almost 15db down by 25hz. So depending on your room and whether or not you have sub EQ, it may or may not be possible to get usable <30hz response. The Klipsch has been show to have a much flatter response, and you could almost count on getting good <30hz response out of it.

And of course the RW-12D will have more output than the STF-2, which as a 10" sub, might be a little challenged give that your room opens up to another room of about equal size.

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post #909 of 2924 Old 01-24-2013, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiguej View Post

Someone recommended I look at the SVS Dual PB-1000. With your extensive sub knowledge which would you choose?

Depending upon what your placement options are I think that could work very well. The PB1000 is a pretty nice sub, especially for the price. Had I known your budget was going to balloon to a grand I would have suggested that days ago, saving you a lot of aggravation. tongue.gif

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post #910 of 2924 Old 01-24-2013, 08:29 PM
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Bond007
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My prediction is that you will die of old age before you purchase a sub. The stf2 does not have 2 ports or plugs. Perhaps you should rethink things.

Good catch, you are right on that score sir. I think I might have been thinking the HSU-VTF 2 and it looks like it is rear ported. I guess my question about port plugs stands. What exactly would they do?

I am too close to 65 with various bits of surgically implanted metal and some unplanned shrapnel in my body. I played football and hockey, raced cars and bikes and still ride so if I kicked it tomorrow it would probably be from mileage not old age or sub chasing!!!. My speed is saved for 2 wheels.

Actually, the fronts and center came yesterday and rear surround ceiling speakers will be installed next Wednesday. I needed the renovation plans to figure out what space would be left over for the sub.

The old Polk Audio PSW10 will have to pitch hit until then. At 14"x14" it at least fits and I know where the new one will go.
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post #911 of 2924 Old 01-24-2013, 10:51 PM
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lol Beeman.
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Some indication of your room size and budget are necessary in order for anyone to assist, otherwise you're going to get suggestions that won't work for your specific situation. Size restrictions, if any, are good to know as well.

I am not sure of the size of the ceilings, just that the living room ceiling starts at a standard height you see in most apartments (whatever that is) and then slants upwards, getting higher until about 10' at the other end. The rest of the living space is of standard ceiling height. The living room is about 12 x 13, but the total combined space of the kitchen, dining room, living room, and hallways (only partial / non-fully-enclosed walls separating the back side of the living room from the hallways...and only half-way-up counters separating kitchen from dining room, and the dining room is essentially part of one big room with the living room) is probably at least 3 times that size.

Honestly, I was hoping that, if I would benefit from a sub at all, the other criteria I set would already put a strong limitation on what I needed (not disturbing the neighbors next door on the same floor and downstairs, not needing/wanting *loud* bass, not needing its benefit-area to cover any more space than the living room itself). As for budget, I was hoping to get some recommendations on what would be the "best bang for the buck" according to my criteria, and also not going completely overkill based on the budget speakers I currently have (would seem kind of silly to get a REALLY good sub that cannot really do justice to the sound with my current speakers, unless the lower recommended subs are not that much more cheaper). It would be nice to get a recommendation on the minimum recommended (recommended, not downright minimum that you don't really recommend...would be better to just save money to get a decent one months later) for my circumstances and also one(s) you would strongly advise I consider for a longer term, though non-audiophile and still value-oriented investment, considering I will not get speakers much better than the Daytons anytime soon. Size does not matter unless it is really heavy and requires a lot of strength to move, in which case that would be a problem at the moment.

Am I still being too vague? I understand that subs are harder to recommend in a generalizing manner than speakers.

Thanks.
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post #912 of 2924 Old 01-25-2013, 02:28 AM
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Yes. You are still being too vague. But that's ok. I think I get the picture. You don't have a sub and are not real picky but want something reasonably cheap that will put out a good amount of bass and size is not an issue. With that much space you need all the output you can get. IMO These are your best options from good to better to best. 1 Bic F12 for $200. 1 Klipsch RW12-d for $300. 2 Bic F12s for $400.

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post #913 of 2924 Old 01-25-2013, 04:14 AM
 
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What Bond 007 said. ^^^ biggrin.gif

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Originally Posted by AVSearcher View Post

Honestly, I was hoping that, if I would benefit from a sub at all, the other criteria I set would already put a strong limitation on what I needed (not disturbing the neighbors next door on the same floor and downstairs, not needing/wanting *loud* bass, not needing its benefit-area to cover any more space than the living room itself). As for budget, I was hoping to get some recommendations on what would be the "best bang for the buck" according to my criteria, and also not going completely overkill based on the budget speakers I currently have (would seem kind of silly to get a REALLY good sub that cannot really do justice to the sound with my current speakers, unless the lower recommended subs are not that much more cheaper). It would be nice to get a recommendation on the minimum recommended (recommended, not downright minimum that you don't really recommend...would be better to just save money to get a decent one months later) for my circumstances and also one(s) you would strongly advise I consider for a longer term, though non-audiophile and still value-oriented investment, considering I will not get speakers much better than the Daytons anytime soon. Size does not matter unless it is really heavy and requires a lot of strength to move, in which case that would be a problem at the moment.

Am I still being too vague? I understand that subs are harder to recommend in a generalizing manner than speakers.

In order to respond to your above, one needs to use fuzzy logic. So here it is in a nut shell or if you will, the extended play version of Bond 007's comments.

Absolutely, anybody and everybody who asks your questions is in need of a subwoofer as a subwoofer is that important in sonic reproduction due to inherent speaker limitation built into "ALL" speaker systems. A subwoofer is the "POW!" in someones laundry detergent and we all need "POW!" in our lives.

With that in mind, the best bang for the buck is going be either a Klipsch, RW-12d or a BIC, PL-200. In the budget minded category, these are the top dogs and many years down the road, will give you the most bang for the buck. But, and it's a big but, to get the most out of the deal, one needs two of these subwoofers and the reason why is, sound waves as they bounce around in a room, like to argue with each other and cancel each other out in the process. This cancelling needs to be countered or you'll get a drop off (bad sound quality) in the frequencies they're arguing in. Not good. The short version, two subs is better than one, four subs is better than two or three subs. So my minimum recommendation would be a pair of either of the two recommended subs.

The next step of the edification process will be getting the most out of these subwoofers once you have them in the room as they're not simply place and forget in order to bring the best out in them. There a bag load of who-ha surrounding getting the most out of subwoofers, too much to address in a missive of this kind.

First things first. Yes you need the subs if you want your speakers to blossom. These are the best bang for the buck as anything less, and you're short-shriftting yourself. And no, at this level, even though these are budget minded sub recommendations, you won't have to worry about replacing them a month or two down the road or even a year or five years down the road. These subs won't need to be replaced until either you decide you want better like one decides they want a faster car or that fail and are in need of replacement as even a fast car gets old and becomes in need or repair or replacement. These should be light enough to move around but there's always the possibility that you'll need assistance because to a certain extent, "ALL" subs are awkward and "HEAVY.'

All of the above takes into consideration room size, variables and budgets, full well knowing that in those departments, I'm completely without a clue. tongue.gif

Hope the above is the type of response you're in need of.

-
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post #914 of 2924 Old 01-26-2013, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I really don't know your situation and Jim is the only one here with extensive sub knowledge. The pb1000 is a nice sub from what people say. If you post (or repost) your room size, budget and so forth it would be helpful.

Bond 007,

Here are my room dimensions. MY original budget was 300-400 per sub. I'm willing to go to 500 per sub if they are worth it compared to the 300-400 subs.

Thanks,

JT
Basement Dimensions.docx 26k .docx file
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post #915 of 2924 Old 01-26-2013, 01:36 PM
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post #916 of 2924 Old 01-26-2013, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiguej View Post

Bond 007,

Here are my room dimensions. MY original budget was 300-400 per sub. I'm willing to go to 500 per sub if they are worth it compared to the 300-400 subs.

Thanks,

JT
Basement Dimensions.docx 26k .docx file

How big are your ceilings? That room is pretty good size in sq feet. Sub performance is impacted by total room volume.

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post #917 of 2924 Old 01-26-2013, 05:10 PM
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My ceilings are 8ft. tall.
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post #918 of 2924 Old 01-26-2013, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiguej View Post

My ceilings are 8ft. tall.

Then two of the SVS PB1000s you were considering should have plenty of output for your room. Of if you want to save some money, go with the Klipsch RW-12d on Newegg at $350 ea. Those would be my choices.

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post #919 of 2924 Old 01-27-2013, 04:07 PM
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I recently lost most of my surround sound system (along with most of the contents of my family room and a couple of cars) to Hurricane Sandy. I had a 6.1 system with Polk satellite speakers and a PSW10 subwoofer through a Sony receiver. I'm a ways away from getting the room back to where it was, but I'm thinking of a different subwoofer this time around. Three of the Polk satellites were saved, but the Sony and PSW10 were destroyed. It's a large L shaped family room with the main living and entertainment area of about 20 ft. X 18 ft. with 7 ft. ceilings. We had carpet before but we will be replacing it with ceramic tile. We use the room mostly for watching TV and DVD's.

Any recommendations for a new subwoofer?

10" or 12" ?

front or down firing?

BIC F12, V1220 or V1020?

Velodyne VX-11?

It's got to be budget (sub $200) because we are replacing pretty much everything.
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post #920 of 2924 Old 01-27-2013, 04:16 PM
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Look at the information for the JBL I just linked to a few posts back. That looks to be a very good deal for a 10" at $175.

Also, the VX-11 is available in pairs for $229. That's a little more than your budget, but that's where it's a good value is getting two at that price, not one VX-11 at $175 or so.

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post #921 of 2924 Old 01-27-2013, 06:07 PM
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I'm very satisfied with my Dayton SUB-1200. 12" 150 watts for $130 each. My room is probably similar in volume to yours and while it doesn't fill the space as much as I'd prefer, it is great for the money (tight budget here as well) and I'm looking forward to adding a second soon.
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post #922 of 2924 Old 01-27-2013, 08:38 PM
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Ok. I want to buy the best sub for the best deal. Tomorrow.

What could I buy?

Many of the "deals" on this post are either out of stock or no longer great deals. Can someone help.
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Originally Posted by soundwhat View Post

Ok. I want to buy the best sub for the best deal. Tomorrow.

What could I buy?

Many of the "deals" on this post are either out of stock or no longer great deals. Can someone help.
A price range might be helpful or I'm gonna recommend a $6000 sub that usually goes for $9000. Also, what is the size of your room?

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post #924 of 2924 Old 01-27-2013, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

A price range might be helpful or I'm gonna recommend a $6000 sub that usually goes for $9000. Also, what is the size of your room?

Haha.

The Living room is about is about 17X15 but the entire room is larger about 30X15.

I would like to be under $300 but no more than $500.
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Haha.

The Living room is about is about 17X15 but the entire room is larger about 30X15.

I would like to be under $300 but no more than $500.
With a room that big you will need 2. I would get the JBL SUB 150. See post 915.

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post #926 of 2924 Old 01-28-2013, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundwhat View Post

Haha.

The Living room is about is about 17X15 but the entire room is larger about 30X15.

I would like to be under $300 but no more than $500.
You could even go with 2 JBL ES250's if you can swing $400. They go for $199 each on amazon.

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This is a town home so the living room is separated by a wall less walk way and connected to the dining rooms. Are two subs really necessary if I only want the sound and effects to make the impact in the television area? I hope this makes sense
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post #928 of 2924 Old 01-28-2013, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundwhat View Post

This is a town home so the living room is separated by a wall less walk way and connected to the dining rooms. Are two subs really necessary if I only want the sound and effects to make the impact in the television area? I hope this makes sense
Two subs will flatten in-room response for the best results at the lowest possible volume.

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post #929 of 2924 Old 01-28-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundwhat View Post

This is a town home so the living room is separated by a wall less walk way and connected to the dining rooms. Are two subs really necessary if I only want the sound and effects to make the impact in the television area? I hope this makes sense

well you have to balance your needs vs. the recommendations. When you ask in this thread, people are going to tell you the best route to really "pressurize" the entire space and get full bodied movie LFE action. With a space that size, it requires a significant amount of "woofage" to really fill the space properly.

If you are only listening at moderate volumes and just want a little "boom boom" in the low end then you obviously don't "need" that much. But just be aware that if you ever want to really "crank it" for the full theater experience, you may hit a wall with the subs on big modern action movie effects. If you will never really crank it, then not as much of a worry.

As pointed out many times in this thread, the benefit of two subs is more about "better" bass then it is about louder bass -- bass waves are long and bounce around the room, and cancel each other out or reinforce each other as they reflect off walls. This leads to "modal" areas where you get dips and peaks, leading to uneven response (e.g. the bass may be boomy at one end of the couch and weak at the other end). With two subs, you will get smoother response overall and fewer of these peaks/dips. So even if you aren't listening loud, dual subs can be very beneficial in making the quality of the bass more consistent over the entire listening area.

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post #930 of 2924 Old 01-28-2013, 11:47 AM
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Ok. Well thank you very much for the input. I am going to order one and see how it performs. Then if I feel as though I want more, I will order a second shortly after.

Thanks!
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